Discussion in 'Off Topic Chat' started by torchomatic, Sep 27, 2017.
Who voted these politicians in?
Merkel, as an example, has said that the terms cannot be better for the UK than for existing members.
So there is no guesswork as to EU thinking required.
You use the word „suffering“. How come? The UK is sailing into a glorious Brexit sunset. The EU need us more than we need them.
Why would any intelligent person assume that you get a better deal from the EU by not being in it?
It would defeat the object of the EU if that were the case. Just the usual Sun, Mail, Express bollocks.
Many more? Not so sure about that. Let’s see what happens over the next couple of years.
It is in the news every so often as people try to storm it.
It is necessary to have a secure EU border. The complaint by leavers was that the EU couldn’t control it’s borders. Now you are complaining that they can.
You can’t make this up.
My daughter wants to go on holiday to this Spanish enclave in Africa with her Spanish boyfriend. No idea what it’s like down there.
For me the EU is the norm. The European Parliament is elected by proportional representation, the commission by a sort of electoral college and there are no peers and monarchs involved. The German government and municipal councils are elected by proportional representation. We have a greater choice of parties who could be involved in decision making. We also have a written constitution which can only be altered by a qualified majority- which means we don’t have 52:48 decisions on the constitution made on „the day“ which could have gone the other way on a different day.
This is the democracy thst „we deserve“, but don’t get in the UK.
From what I remember he tried getting more tax revenue last budget but had to go back on it because everyone was crying about it?
And don’t say ‘just increase the tax on the richest’- it has been shown- I think by astute- on here that just because there is a tax rise, doesn’t mean it increases the amount actually paid in. I think, but I am not 100% we are collecting more tax than ever before if I remember correctly?
Yes I agree investment is key. But so is not destroying the economy by borrowing more and more money we don’t have?
And yes I agree normal citizens don’t look at the bigger picture- at least not all- which is another reason I didn’t vote labour- if I cared about my own life and my own pocket I would have done, because undoubtedly I’m the short term I’m sure I would have had an improvement- in the long run though not so much.
Tbf I don’t think anyone expects us to get a better deal than we have now from the EU? I think people are just miffed at how the EU think that they can try and give us shit terms when, as Astute says, a good deal is needed for both sides.
But yes you are right if anyone thinks we can get a deal they are probably a bit ignorant or just plain stupid
Fair enough I respect that opinion- but I don’t agree. I don’t see how it is much of a democracy to say- ‘okay the 52% majority want to leave, however, that isn’t enough because we don’t want that, so we will just ignore millions of people’s opinions in favour of the minority of people.’ Even if it is just a 4% swing, that is democracy to me, and even though I don’t like that we are leaving the EU, I am proud of the democracy we had.
the department of Trade and Industry is apparently looking to get the power to by pass Parliament when negotiating trade deals.
Post-Brexit trade bill could free ministers to sign deals without parliament
This will be a massive kick in the teeth to our democracy which I though was part of the reason for voting leave? It's actually quite sinister.
I might be wrong but didn’t Davies catsgorially day yesterday that parliament will have the right to vote and brexit? I might be wrong, but think it popped up on my phone yesterday?
that's something totally different.
From reading that article, it is saying that we are going to keep trade deals with countries that we already trade with as part of the EU? I don’t see the problem with that?
Is that really a big deal? Altering trade deals?
It allows the Trade and Industry department to circumnavigate Parliament. I thought a massive part of Brexit was about keeping our parliamentary democracy.
This allows an individual department to push through legislation that would previously have been subject to Parliamentary scrutiny. Doubly worrying when the department in question is headed up by Liam Fox.
You will find I never made a comment on the photograph, just stated what was there.
One of the things to watch out for over the next weeks when all this is debated in Parliament is what is going to happen with our Rights. They need to be separated from any political influence from the political parties that may hold power. This means they also need to be separated from judicial powers.
Intriguing times ahead.
One big complaint about the EU (and one I could buy into!) was the way TTIP was being pushed in through the back door, with all its insidious pseudo-privatisation consequences.
Allowing us to end up with a *worse* version without parliamentary consultation would be an utter disaster!
Agree. One big bonus of leaving the EU was that we wouldn't be included in the CETA deal with Canada which was basically TTIP lite. Well this is pretty much the same thing.
To be honest it just seems to be irrelevant, in the EU or out, the interests of the corporate world will always be looked after at the expense of everything else.
It worries me that in the haste to 'take back our borders' it seems we can forget the principles that drove the leave campaign - namely democratic control ahead of unelected individuals or entities, and increased investment in public services.
Surely they have to be at the forefront of any post-Brexit Britain, otherwise the entire Leave premise has been a total lie?
Anyway, just realised this is the Corbyn thread, AKA EU-lite!
With that, I bow out again from the circular nonsense
Tell you what, describe what the EU system of government is, I'm sure as a fan you understand it well and will be able to explain it in simple terms that illustrate it's democratic credentials.
Google EU Parliament, EU Commission and European Council. When you have read those you will be 3 times as educated as the majority of leavers who get their information from the Brexit press.
Some education for those who don't know anything about the EU commission or what goes on in the EU
Corruption across EU 'breathtaking'
Yes, as they say it is:
„National governments, rather than EU institutions, are chiefly responsible for fighting corruption in the EU.“ ( Taken from the above report ).
People like Grendel are opposed to the evil EU taking away the democratic rights when it comes to attempts at cleaning things up as with Jersey and EU tax dodging.
National governments seem to like deflecting on to the EU.
I have but I don't understand it, please tell me how it works (or how you think it works).
I can only tell you the same as the official information.
I see Farage just paid 100000£ for smearing people. Did you miss that?
You can't explain or understand it either so you attempt to change the topic, LOL.
No. I am not going to repeat what you have already read in essay form. I think you are well capable of understanding the EU if you want to, but you don’t want to admit that it is at least, if not more democratic than the UK system.
The biggest problem I see is that the national governments have too much power. There should be more power vested in the EU parliament. It would take away the veto rights which work in, say, Luxemburg and Malta‘s case when we are talking about tax dodging.
I am not attempting to change the topic, but you sometimes throw news into threads. Just thought I would, seeing as Farage keeps getting shown for what a what a cxxt he is.
You still can't explain where the so called EU democracy is can you, referring me to some essays!
Farage hasn’t paid them a penny. Did you miss that?
I haven’t written any essays. This is not a political science class. As I have said, the biggest weakness is that the EU parliament is not given enough power.
Admit it you don't understand how it is supposed to work, you just support it without reason or analysis, your attitude is rather like a religious belief.
Yes. He has apologized and said he won’t do it again though. Which is a massive climb down. That along with his affairs which he hid for years, shows what a hypocritical lying bastard he is. Has he recommended youngsters to follow his lifestyle whilst wearing old men’s clothes - as he did when he recommended „youngsters“ watch Dunkirk?
Bollocks. I know enough to see what is right and where weaknesses are. I support it because we live in peace and are relatively well off. I can see how eastern EU countries have become more free and are getting wealthier - although they took a hit in 2008.
I am confident that a Europe working together is a better option than the hundreds of years of wars culminating in the first and Second World Wars.
I read so many inaccurate things on here and try and balance the conversation. That is not blind faith as I can quote things or speak from experience.
I am not going to type an analysis on here or anywhere. I have a full time occupation.
HAHA!! No one on here likes Farage apparently, but criticise him and there's a fanboy jumping straight to his defence!
Remember, Hope not hate took him to court but his lying remarks were actually directed at Brendan Cox who's wife had been murdered, Farage is a scumbag.
Of course he lies he is a politician.
You say hypocritical Mart but you just said he had to pay 100k and he didn’t and you said in your last reply to CD you see so many inaccurate things on here. Just saying.
Separate names with a comma.