Palmer Suspension (2 Viewers)

[djr8369]

It wasn't after the game?

I suppose I mean after goals in big games but maybe it doesn’t. Maybe I’m blurring encroaching a few feet onto the pitch with running across the pitch after the whistle goes.

I still think it doesn’t really matter if you encroach a metre or run the length of the pitch though. Palmer may have taken the piss it just seems daft to be a rule where small offences are unpunished.

 

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[David O'Day]

I suppose I mean after goals in big games but maybe it doesn’t. Maybe I’m blurring encroaching a few feet onto the pitch with running across the pitch after the whistle goes.

I still think it doesn’t really matter if you encroach a metre or run the length of the pitch though. Palmer may have taken the piss it just seems daft to be a rule where small offences are unpunished.

This is my point, the law seems to say that all people who enter the pitch without the refs permission should be banned. On Saturday there were other city players who were not part of the XI at that time also on the pitch and not by "10mm" by a good few feet and these weren't banned.

 

[mmttww]

Swings and Roundabouts, ennit. He'll be gutted but sh*t happens. I'll never get bored of the clip he posted, kneesliding in to the frame and Simms grabbing him. Proper moment, that.

 

[Warwickhunt]

think th FA should look at the rules for the FA cup yellow cards and close the loophole on the Red Card scenario! he Diallo had two yellows and then got a red, he should miss the Semi Final end of.......

 

[djr8369]

This is my point, the law seems to say that all people who enter the pitch without the refs permission should be banned. On Saturday there were other city players who were not part of the XI at that time also on the pitch and not by "10mm" by a good few feet and these weren't banned.

It’s situations like this where football makes a rod for its own back and cause unneeded controversies. Take time wasting and foul throws. Rules exist but are implemented at referees discretion and then there are arguments about why did x get booked but not y.

I get some rules are difficult to define clearly and there are always edge cases but just seems like opportunities to have clear rules are constantly missed.

Then you’ve got the rules that are vague in writing like the VAR “clear and obvious error” situation.

 

[robbiethemole]

Surely the ball was dead? no play was happening and if he'd gone behind the goal to them, would he still be booked?

 

[djr8369]

think th FA should look at the rules for the FA cup yellow cards and close the loophole on the Red Card scenario! he Diallo had two yellows and then got a red, he should miss the Semi Final end of.......

Is the rule even clear there? It seems odd it gets treated as a red rather than two yellows.

 

[Adge]

This is my point, the law seems to say that all people who enter the pitch without the refs permission should be banned. On Saturday there were other city players who were not part of the XI at that time also on the pitch and not by "10mm" by a good few feet and these weren't banned.

This is my point, the law seems to say that all people who enter the pitch without the refs permission should be banned. On Saturday there were other city players who were not part of the XI at that time also on the pitch and not by "10mm" by a good few feet and these weren't banned.

Should be banned? Seems very extreme. Surely you mean cautioned?

 

[chiefdave]

Yes that can be an example or Law 3 The players-


If a player who requires the referee’s permission to re-enter the field of play re-enters without the referee’s permission, the referee must:
• stop play (not immediately if the player does not interfere with play or a match official or if the advantage can be applied)
• caution the player for entering the field of play without permission
If the referee stops play, it must be restarted:
• with a direct free kick from the position of the interference
• with an indirect free kick from the position of the ball when play was stopped if there was no interference
A player who crosses a boundary line as part of a playing movement does not commit an offence.

Why would a substituted player require the referees permission to re-enter the field of play. I'm struggling to think of an example of that happening in a game. Would this not be more applicable?

If a team official, substitute, substituted or sent-off player or outside agent enters the field of play the referee must:

• only stop play if there is interference with play
• have the person removed when play stops
• take appropriate disciplinary action

that only states appropriate disciplinary action, not an automatic caution, and as others have said substitutes entering the field of play to celebrate a goal happens regularly without the offending player receiving a caution, in fact there was at least 3 players off our bench on the field and only Palmer was cautioned. The game was not in play at the time and Palmers actions did nothing to delay a restart so with zero impact on the game is a caution in this case, but not when Wolves scored, appropriate and consistent?

 

[robbiethemole]

Will the Semedo kung-fu kick be viewed retrospectively as dangerous and endagering an opponent? Ref gave nothing, and VAR didn't think it worthy of a foul!!

 

[Adge]

Will the Semedo kung-fu kick be viewed retrospectively as dangerous and endagering an opponent? Ref gave nothing, and VAR didn't think it worthy of a foul!!

Was clearly missed at the time and obviously the wrong call by the Referee. He will be picked up on it.

 

[shmmeee]

Yeah there may be some super secret squirrel referees interpretation but reading the rules as they’re written it’s clear the intention is only to caution players who show disrespect or impede the game in some way.

 

[djr8369]

Yeah there may be some super secret squirrel referees interpretation but reading the rules as they’re written it’s clear the intention is only to caution players who show disrespect or impede the game in some way.

That’s my reading too.

 

[David O'Day]

Should be banned? Seems very extreme. Surely you mean cautioned?

Yes, stop being pedantic and can you please explain why not everyone who entered the pitch to celebrate was cautioned?

You have stated it is a mandatory sanction and the as written treats 1ft the same as 50ft.

 

[David O'Day]

That’s my reading too.

It does read like it is aimed at players who go off say for treatment from entering play again without the refs permission.

 

[djr8369]

It does read like it is aimed at players who go off say for treatment from entering play again without the refs permission.

Which makes sense as you see it enforced. Celebrating a goal not so much, although obviously subs aren’t running on the pitch every game, but it definitely happens.

As I’ve said previously on the thread managers do it frequently but they’ve obviously cracked down the staff around the technical area recently.

 

[wingy]

I know rules are rules but to deny a player a semi final because they had overriding emotion to a match winning 100 minute goal is a shambles of the game, of which football is all about.

Rules are always being broken!!

 

[Hobo]

Is the rule even clear there? It seems odd it gets treated as a red rather than two yellows.

No because two yellows in one game equates to a red card. Accumulation of yellows over different games carry a different penalty. It is unfortunate that in Palmers case the ban comes in for a Semi Final.

 

[shmmeee]

No because two yellows in one game equates to a red card. Accumulation of yellows over different games carry a different penalty. It is unfortunate that in Palmers case the ban comes in for a Semi Final.

Either cards and suspensions should be shared or suspensions only count in the cup. Like the “we won’t review two yellows but we will review a red” rule, seems more arbitrary than anything.

 

[Calista]

Why would a substituted player require the referees permission to re-enter the field of play. I'm struggling to think of an example of that happening in a game. Would this not be more applicable?

that only states appropriate disciplinary action, not an automatic caution, and as others have said substitutes entering the field of play to celebrate a goal happens regularly without the offending player receiving a caution, in fact there was at least 3 players off our bench on the field and only Palmer was cautioned. The game was not in play at the time and Palmers actions did nothing to delay a restart so with zero impact on the game is a caution in this case, but not when Wolves scored, appropriate and consistent?

I still can't defend KP doing what he did, but now you've posted this it does seem that the ref wasn't actually REQUIRED to book him, although he was entitled to if he thought it 'appropriate'. Was the ref applying the wrong rule, and does this warrant an appeal? Pretty sure it would be futile though because they wouldn't want to undermine the ref's judgement, or encourage people sprinting across the field from the bench to join in goal celebrations.

 

[djr8369]

No because two yellows in one game equates to a red card. Accumulation of yellows over different games carry a different penalty. It is unfortunate that in Palmers case the ban comes in for a Semi Final.

It’s a bit odd that different cards have the suspension take place in different competitions but if anything it should be the other way around and a suspension for a red be served in the specific competition.

Imagine if you’re the last defender chasing an attacking player about to equalise in the last seconds of a knockout competition. You could scythe the attacker down and get a straight red. Not only would your team go through to the next round but you’d be allowed to play as could serve your ban in the league.

Have I got that right? That seems nuts.

 

[shmmeee]

I still can't defend KP doing what he did, but now you've posted this it does seem that the ref wasn't actually REQUIRED to book him, although he was entitled to if he thought it 'appropriate'. Was the ref applying the wrong rule, and does this warrant an appeal? Pretty sure it would be futile though because they wouldn't want to undermine the ref's judgement, or encourage people sprinting across the field from the bench to join in goal celebrations.

AFAIK there’s no mechanism to appeal a yellow, only reds.

 

[djr8369]

AFAIK there’s no mechanism to appeal a yellow, only reds.

Again, arbitrary as a yellow can lead to a ban so the impact is the same?

 

[Adge]

Yes, stop being pedantic and can you please explain why not everyone who entered the pitch to celebrate was cautioned?

You have stated it is a mandatory sanction and the as written treats 1ft the same as 50ft.

Stop pretending it’s the same thing-it’s not. I’ve explained-now move on.

 

[David O'Day]

Stop pretending it’s the same thing-it’s not. I’ve explained-now move on.

the law you quoted says it is, I am only going on what you posted

if I am incorrect please show me where it says they are different in the laws you posted?

you did say it was a mandatory sanction for anyone who transgressed the law you posted.

stop having a hissy fit and answer the simple question

I'm asking politely so please answer the question that multiple people have asked you

stop pretending you have explained anything as that is simply a lie

 

[chiefdave]

I still can't defend KP doing what he did, but now you've posted this it does seem that the ref wasn't actually REQUIRED to book him, although he was entitled to if he thought it 'appropriate'. Was the ref applying the wrong rule, and does this warrant an appeal? Pretty sure it would be futile though because they wouldn't want to undermine the ref's judgement, or encourage people sprinting across the field from the bench to join in goal celebrations.

There's zero chance of us appealing anything, there's not even a process to do so, and even less chance of anyone admitting a mistake was made.

But that's why there's so much frustration at officials. We see rules applied incorrectly & inconsistently and then the referees union closes ranks and insist the officials got it absolutely right.

Add in things like random retrospective action, such as when Godden 'dived' and a seemingly impossible appeals process that never goes anywhere and its asking for trouble. You can't turn back the clock but mistakes can be admitted to, it happens in other sports and everyone accepts it and moves on.

 

[ccfc1234]

Absolutely! But people think that discretion can be applied by the Referee, unfortunately it can’t and is in black and white.

What about how the sanction is applied? Had he slapped a wolves player on the way back and been sent off he would be able to play at Wembley. Not sure I can make that make sense.

 

[Calista]

Absolutely! But people think that discretion can be applied by the Referee, unfortunately it can’t and is in black and white.

But as per ChiefDave's post (#220), the rule relating to a substituted player going on the pitch (which is different from the cases you have quoted) states that 'appropriate disciplinary action' should be taken, which does involve discretion.

 

[Frostie]

But as per ChiefDave's post (#220), the rule relating to a substituted player going on the pitch (which is different from the cases you have quoted) states that 'appropriate disciplinary action' should be taken, which does involve discretion.

As in "appropriate" would be whether he gets a yellow or a red depending on his actions.

It really is cut & dry unfortunately.

 

[Calista]

As in "appropriate" would be whether he gets a yellow or a red depending on his actions.

It really is cut & dry unfortunately.

OK that's clear enough. As discussed on here, people do seem to regularly get away with modest encroachment onto the field all the time. But how an experienced player thinks he can run right across the pitch the way KP did when the match hasn't finished is beyond me. I guess he wasn't warned by the staff before the game about suspension for 2 bookings in the FA Cup.

It's so frustrating because if we are going to have a chance of beating United, we could do with some magic, and he's probably more capable of doing the brilliant or unexpected than anyone else in the squad.

 

[CCFCSteve]

Surely the ball was dead? no play was happening and if he'd gone behind the goal to them, would he still be booked?

I also wondered this. Don’t quote me but from memory pretty sure KP trotted back across the pitch to get back to the bench as well .

 

[shmmeee]

As in "appropriate" would be whether he gets a yellow or a red depending on his actions.

It really is cut & dry unfortunately.

View attachment 34665

And yet:

 

[MalcSB]

No because two yellows in one game equates to a red card. Accumulation of yellows over different games carry a different penalty. It is unfortunate that in Palmers case the ban comes in for a Semi Final.

So basically Palmer should have told the ref, in no uncertain terms, to “fuck off you miserable Cnut”, earning himself a second yellow for dissent.

 

[Otis]

All this moaning about Robins and Palmer. Neither can hold a candle to this guy.

 

[Hobo]

OK that's clear enough. As discussed on here, people do seem to regularly get away with modest encroachment onto the field all the time. But how an experienced player thinks he can run right across the pitch the way KP did when the match hasn't finished is beyond me. I guess he wasn't warned by the staff before the game about suspension for 2 bookings in the FA Cup.

It's so frustrating because if we are going to have a chance of beating United, we could do with some magic, and he's probably more capable of doing the brilliant or unexpected than anyone else in the squad.

Sadly missing an opportunity to play in an FA Cup Semi Final. Not something many players get to experience and often the biggest game of a players career.

But when I saw it happen I thought he could get booked for it? Wasn't particularly aware of his previous booking and the implications of it.

Think we will just have to accept it myself. Otherwise it's a bit like us arguing that a stonewall penalty against us in a match shouldn't count, because a stonewall penalty in another match wasn't given by a different referee.?