Second referendum : am I missing something ? (1 Viewer)

[skybluetony176]

Are the Eu and the EEC different beasts Tony?

Don’t know why you’re telling me. Astute is the one who’s confused.

 

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[skybluetony176]

That is an assumption. Post Brexit, dependent upon the final deal...there might be a backlash against EU manufactured goods for all we know. It is all very much unknown

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Personally I’ve always had a backlash against non U.K. goods. I’ve always preferably buy British if at all possible. You haven’t got to vote leave to be loyal to U.K. manufacturing, sales and services.

 

[skybluetony176]

The problem is that people, I suspect such as yourself, only want one because you feel it would result in us remaining. However, many remain supoorters felt similarly confident thanks to the opinion polls before the last referendum...so be careful what you wish for.

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Personally I wouldn’t want to see remain on a second referendum. A second referendum should be on the terms of brexit and its what should have happened in the first place once we voted leave. People can give it the we know what we voted for and leave means leave line as much as they like but the government were given a mandate to leave but were never given a mandate of what that means. Seems to me with the benefit of hindsight there’s only two ways we can leave. We either join the EEA (do a Norway) or we have a hard brexit and then renegotiate our relationship with the EU from a blank piece of paper. The current negotiation process of negotiating before you leave clearly isn’t working in any sense of the word. Despite what a certain poster thinks no one has ever done this before, we’re on uncharted territory and we’ve clearly gone down the wrong path in how to leave. For that reason alone we need a second referendum. The government will have a clear mandate and more importantly a clear instruction on what route to take. Something they’ve never had and this week more than any week since the referendum it should have become blatantly obvious to anyone regardless of what you voted or believed you voted for that we’ve gone about this in completely the wrong way.

 

[skybluetony176]

Still don’t see why remain think they can turn around 700k - 800k votes just to get it back to 50/50 , 2 whole cities the size of Coventry changing their mind .
Pure fantasy

How many leave voters have passed away in the last two years given the demographics of leave voters? How many people have become eligible to vote in the last 2 years and what was the demographics of remain voters? Leave voters are literally a dying breed. Remainers on the other hand are having a baby boom. Before you even want to factor in the people that have changed their minds the tide may well have already turned through the course of nature.

 

[SkyblueBazza]

It was the 2nd highest electoral turnout, you claimed a majority didn't bother to vote.

Stop being a twat. I have made clear the point I was trying to make...well 99% of people probably get it! And it's one I have made several times before

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[Captain Dart]

Why waste time? The Brexiteers would no doubt find a good reason, & get support to hold a third.

What you have to accept is that the majority of eligible voters don't care enough to bother voting. Those that did have had their say

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The turnout was 72%, that's a majority of the electorate.

 

[SkyblueBazza]

I voted remain but cannot understand this ‘oh fuck we got it wrong so can we try again’ approach. Yes people can change their minds through the course of time but not such a short time after. The country voted and leave won, I accept that (don’t like it but accept it).

Sounds like buyers remorse without a receipt at the moment

Same here...and don't forget people from both sides of the equation can & have changed their minds. Me for example. I would vote leave simply to honour & respect the first result, since I don't think those who voted leave are the imbeciles some accuse them of being!


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[Captain Dart]

How many leave voters have passed away in the last two years given the demographics of leave voters? How many people have become eligible to vote in the last 2 years and what was the demographics of remain voters? Leave voters are literally a dying breed. Remainers on the other hand are having a baby boom. Before you even want to factor in the people that have changed their minds the tide may well have already turned through the course of nature.

I've heard this spurious argument used time & time again. The other side of the coin is that remain voters are also getting older and more conservative in their views and more likely to vote leave where before they voted remain. Certainly that mirrors my journey as I voted YES in the 1975 referendum to join the EEC with a positive attitude about the idea of closer union with other European countries, then I saw the reality, the fudge, the lack of democracy, the isolation of the UK, the imposition of policy bad for the UK, the drain of UK money to other countries in the EU, the pampered Eurocrats and I changed my mind.

 

[SkyblueBazza]

Personally I’ve always had a backlash against non U.K. goods. I’ve always preferably buy British if at all possible. You haven’t got to vote leave to be loyal to U.K. manufacturing, sales and services.

An impossible goal apart from some farming I suspect. Most things have some constituent materials from abroad.
Even seeds we plant to grow can come from abroad, feeds for UK reared livestock, steel we use to make stuff.

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[Sick Boy]

Stop being a twat. I have made clear the point I was trying to make...well 99% of people probably get it! And it's one I have made several times before

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Unable to express yourself without calling someone a 'twat', says a lot about you.

 

[SkyblueBazza]

The turnout was 72%, that's a majority of the electorate.

Keep up lol

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[skybluetony176]

I've heard this spurious argument used time & time again. The other side of the coin is that remain voters are also getting older and more conservative in their views and more likely to vote leave where before they voted remain. Certainly that mirrors my journey as I voted YES in the 1975 referendum to join the EEC with a positive attitude about the idea of closer union with other European countries, then I saw the reality, the fudge, the lack of democracy, the isolation of the UK, the imposition of policy bad for the UK, the drain of UK money to other countries in the EU, the pampered Eurocrats and I changed my mind.

Like I said. Considering the demographics of voters. There is a direct correlation between age and which way you were most likely to vote. The passing of time favours remain voters and is detrimental to leave voters. Nothing spurious about that. It’s just nature taking it’s course.

 

[Captain Dart]

Like I said. Considering the demographics of voters. There is a direct correlation between age and which way you were most likely to vote. The passing of time favours remain voters and is detrimental to leave voters. Nothing spurious about that. It’s just nature taking it’s course.

Wrong as usual. Here is the UK demographic curve, the baby boomer bump is about to hit retirement. Older people are more likely to vote leave. You really are thick if you think everyone who voted remain 2 years ago will still do so.

 

[Macca]

Honestly just bin it off bored to death of the bullying and abuse from those who want to stay. Meanwhile I like this guys view

 

[Grendel]

Perhaps we should have a referendum every year. Let’s get Simon cowell to design a format so we can have it televised on Saturday nights.

 

[Captain Dart]

Perhaps we should have a referendum every year. Let’s get Simon cowell to design a format so we can have it televised on Saturday nights.

Britain's got 2nd thoughts.

 

[SkyblueBazza]

Unable to express yourself without calling someone a 'twat', says a lot about you.

You deserved it!

Or if you have failed to understand the point on the many occasions I and others have made it...then you're a thick twat

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[skybluetony176]

An impossible goal apart from some farming I suspect. Most things have some constituent materials from abroad.
Even seeds we plant to grow can come from abroad, feeds for UK reared livestock, steel we use to make stuff.

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Agreed. But I’ve always done my best. I’ve owned 4 new cars in my lifetime. All built on British production lines by British workers supporting British jobs. Non of the car companies were British owned though or even an historic British manufacturer on two occasions. Funnily unlike a mate of mine who hates Junker and the EU even more than astute. Gets a new company car of his choice every three years and has done for over 20 years, everyone a Mercedes. Haven’t bought HP sauce since they pulled production from the U.K. Always buy British cheese, when I was a meat eater always bought British meat etc etc. I find it disgusting that our police drive around in BMW’s, find it disgusting that we have train manufacturing in the U.K. but prefer to import them from Germany etc etc. I noticed Boris drives a non British made car when he was filmed outside his weekend retreat the other week when news broke he was divorcing and had had an affair, again.

I do drink Guinness by choice though so I guess there’s always an exception but then again their isn’t really a British equivalent readily available. Some small scale independent British brewers do an equivalent but you rarely see it in a pub.

 

[SkyblueBazza]

Agreed. But I’ve always done my best. I’ve owned 4 new cars in my lifetime. All built on British production lines by British workers supporting British jobs. Non of the car companies were British owned though or even an historic British manufacturer on two occasions. Funnily unlike a mate of mine who hates Junker and the EU even more than astute. Gets a new company car of his choice every three years and has done for over 20 years, everyone a Mercedes. Haven’t bought HP sauce since they pulled production from the U.K. Always buy British cheese, when I was a meat eater always bought British meat etc etc. I find it disgusting that our police drive around in BMW’s, find it disgusting that we have train manufacturing in the U.K. but prefer to import them from Germany etc etc. I noticed Boris drives a non British made car when he was filmed outside his weekend retreat the other week when news broke he was divorcing and had had an affair, again.

I do drink Guinness by choice though so I guess there’s always an exception but then again their isn’t really a British equivalent readily available. Some small scale independent British brewers do an equivalent but you rarely see it in a pub.

I don't doubt you are probably a decent sort. Just a little misguided when you disagree with me

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[skybluetony176]

Wrong as usual. Here is the UK demographic curve, the baby boomer bump is about to hit retirement. Older people are more likely to vote leave. You really are thick if you think everyone who voted remain 2 years ago will still do so.

I don’t think I’ve ever seen anyone so badly misunderstand what I was saying and missing the point. Maybe astute. You even confirm the exact point I’ve made in your reply.

 

[Astute]

People are allowed to change their minds in a democracy, otherwise we'd only ever have one election and stick with that political party. I'm sure if it had been the other way around you'd be going about how close it was and that it wasn't a large enough majority etc etc.

As I've said before, I think that either way it is going to cause problems and the country is going to be fractured and divided for ever such a long time still. I honestly don't know how it could be repaired any time soon.

If it was the other way round I would have been happy with the result and not found out what the EU is like.

 

[Astute]

As I said, polls only seem to be accurate when it backs someone's own opinions on here.
IMO, some kind of vote on the final deal/a GE is going to become inevitable. Especially as we were told that the chances of a no deal were minimal and negotiations would be simple; there is minimal support for a no deal.

And they don't back what you want.....don't even come close....So now you say they are unreliable.

 

[Astute]

How many leave voters have passed away in the last two years given the demographics of leave voters? How many people have become eligible to vote in the last 2 years and what was the demographics of remain voters? Leave voters are literally a dying breed. Remainers on the other hand are having a baby boom. Before you even want to factor in the people that have changed their minds the tide may well have already turned through the course of nature.

I was a remainer. And yes you are right. I am still alive.

 

[Otis]

Just wondering. If you all had only 3 minutes to live would you spend those 3 minutes asking yourself 'I wish I hadn't wasted all that time arguing about Brexit'?

 

[Astute]

Same here...and don't forget people from both sides of the equation can & have changed their minds. Me for example. I would vote leave simply to honour & respect the first result, since I don't think those who voted leave are the imbeciles some accuse them of being!


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I was also a remainer. My problem is that I have lost all faith in the EU. How can you trust them when we now know they break their own rules and regulations. And when their ombudsmen say what they did was wrong there is nothing anyone can do?

Why would anyone want their future decided by them?

 

[Grappa]

Just wondering. If you all had only 3 minutes to live would you spend those 3 minutes asking yourself 'I wish I hadn't wasted all that time arguing about Brexit'?

Yeah, my time would be better served coming up with 'witty' responses to grammar mistakes.

 

[Otis]

Yeah, my time would be better served coming up with 'witty' responses to grammar mistakes.

Good call and fare play to you.

 

[Astute]

Yeah, my time would be better served coming up with 'witty' responses to grammar mistakes.

I we're thinking the same myself.

 

[Alan Dugdales Moustache]

Will anyone really miss being able to buy strawberries 7 days a week , 52 weeks a year ? If so , you probably did or should have voted remain.
For me, they were a treat years ago only at certain times of the year. For that reason, I voted out. I don't need them, I couldn't give a shite about the poor Eastern Europeans being exploited by working 15 hours a day in eastern England for pittance to line the pockets of some money grabbing opportunist who now moans publicly that they will be destitute.
In short - strawberries yes - remain
strawberries no - leave
There is absolutely no reason for a second referendum .

 

[Otis]

Will anyone really miss being able to buy strawberries 7 days a week , 52 weeks a year ? If so , you probably did or should have voted remain.
For me, they were a treat years ago only at certain times of the year. For that reason, I voted out. I don't need them, I couldn't give a shite about the poor Eastern Europeans being exploited by working 15 hours a day in eastern England for pittance to line the pockets of some money grabbing opportunist who now moans publicly that they will be destitute.
In short - strawberries yes - remain
strawberries no - leave
There is absolutely no reason for a second referendum .

But now surely there is.

Do you want strawberries available 7 days a week?

Yes
No

 

[Alan Dugdales Moustache]

In fact strawberries and their availability since our membership of the EU should have been the main theme of the referendum. They encapsulate everything about being in the EU. We have to have them it seems whether we want them or not, just to satisfy some trade deal , or freedom of movement of workers.

 

[Otis]

In fact strawberries and their availability since our membership of the EU should have been the main theme of the referendum. They encapsulate everything about being in the EU. We have to have them it seems whether we want them or not, just to satisfy some trade deal , or freedom of movement of workers.

What if you don't like strawberries?

 

[Philosorapter]

Wasn't the strawberry test one of the five economic tests adopted by Brown before we could join the Euro?

 

[Covstu]

It was the only thing going through my head when I voted remain

 

[Grendel]

Britain's got 2nd thoughts.

I can see Ant or Dec (the sober one) and Holly what’s her name present it.

Starts with a War Hero shown draped in medals. Holly tearfully announces he dies this week. Then with a broad grin she announces - he voted leave. Audience cheers and chants “one more old git dead” and Ant or Dec dances around.

Then we are introduced to someone celebrating his 18th birthday. “He’s voting remain” big cheers.

“Why are you choosing the correct side” says Holly “because of your intelligence youth and desire for Europe?”

“Nah it’s like I thought we get booted out of the Euros innit as we ain’t in Europe like. Oh and that Corbyn geezer he loves Europe”

Anyway this series we are told will only run for one year. Well unless we get the same result then it starts all over again.