Second referendum : am I missing something ? (1 Viewer)

[Sick Boy]

I too would still vote the same, and again and again.
I don't even buy the NHS bus as an argument. Anyone who seen that slogan as anything other than a suggestion is either so thick they shouldn't be trusted with a vote or lost the vote and are just clutching at straws for a reason for a re vote. "we pay the EU £350m a week, let's funds the NHS instead"!
Its nothing else. Just a suggestion. It says to me, why waste £350m a week when we COULD POSSIIIIBLY spend it here instead. At absolute no point did I think we would automatically plough £350m a week into the NHS, It would be nice to have the option to put a bit extra in every now and then though. Surely to be able to choose where to spend our own money on our own problems will be nice. Instead of bailing out Spain and Greece.

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Apart from it was agreed that the UK wouldn't have to contribute to Eurozone bailouts

 

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[Sick Boy]

I know I love the way animals are treated as sentient beings in medieval Greece, Italy and Spain as for Romania - a haven for animals for sure

All countries across Europe have questionable attitudes towards the treatment of animals. Apart from towards domestic animals, the UK isn't much different though.

 

[pastythegreat]

have you got a link to any sort of article that explains how we will be better off post Brexit because I'm struggling to find anything that specifies that scenario?

Same to you. Other than people speculating, show me a factual (Not scaremongering) that suggests we'll implode within hours of a no deal!

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[skybluetony176]

That’s interesting - so can a uk government ban imports of Fois Gras while remaining in the EU

I’m sure those Geese love a bit of EU protection as sentient beings

Imagine how much worse it would be if they didn’t recognise animals as sentient. I think you’ve deliberately missed the point for the sake of distraction.

 

[clint van damme]

Same to you. Other than people speculating, show me a factual (Not scaremongering) that suggests we'll implode within hours of a no deal!

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I mentioned some earlier, (James O'Brien, 3 men i n the pub), I even said I they acknowledge they are committed remainers and asked for a link that presents a contrary opinion. Nothing so far.

 

[Ccfcsj]

have you got a link to any sort of article that explains how we will be better off post Brexit because I'm struggling to find anything that specifies that scenario?

Everybody knows papers only like to report on the bad stuff and not the good stuff. It sells papers or attracts readers. Any positive news has been deliberately swept under the carpet to cause pessimism and panic.

 

[clint van damme]

Everybody knows papers only like to report on the bad stuff and not the good stuff. It sells papers or attracts readers. Any positive news has been deliberately swept under the carpet to cause pessimism and panic.

I'm not on about the papers. You can get websites, youtube vlogs. Someone point me in the direction of something that debunks the Brexit scare stories with salient, checkable arguments.

 

[Ccfcsj]

I'm not on about the papers. You can get websites, youtube vlogs. Someone point me in the direction of something that debunks the Brexit scare stories with salient, checkable arguments.

Okay, to reverse that, show us an article that is 100% accurate for what will happen. It's all speculation.

 

[Evo1883]

Will this one get to 19k now too lol

 

[clint van damme]

Okay, to reverse that, show us an article that is 100% accurate for what will happen. It's all speculation.

I named a couple of Youtube contributors who I believe make good arguments against Brexit.
If anyone can present any arguments that contradicts what they say with salient arguments I'm prepared to watch/listen. No one has come up with one. I'm beginning to think there aren't any.

 

[Ccfcsj]

Will this one get to 19k now too lol

Let's aim for 100 pages first :happy:

 

[Ccfcsj]

I named a couple of Youtube contributors who I believe make good arguments against Brexit.
If anyone can present any arguments that contradicts what they say with salient arguments I'm prepared to watch/listen. No one has come up with one. I'm beginning to think there aren't any.

Anybody with the gift can create some very comprehensive arguments for anything they believe in. The reasons for wars etc prove that - are they always right????

 

[Westendlad]

Will this one get to 19k now too lol

Ssssh, don't say anything to the 'losers' but if their was a 2nd referendum vote then there would be so much outrage that ukip would probably win the next election. PM Farage lol

 

[Ccfcsj]

You could just imagine how it goes. Leave win 1st referendum - remain complains; Remain wins a 2nd referendum - leave complains. would there be a 3rd (4th, 5th....) until everyone's happy

 

[clint van damme]

Anybody with the gift can create some very comprehensive arguments for anything they believe in. The reasons for wars etc prove that - are they always right????

so give me a link or a name then. Why are we going to be better off ripping up our existing trade deals and going under the WTO? Just give me something by one of these gifted creators you mention.

 

[Ccfcsj]

so give me a link or a name then. Why are we going to be better off ripping up our existing trade deals and going under the WTO? Just give me something by one of these gifted creators you mention.

Didn't say I know any, just making the fact that anybody can be an expert to the people who aren't.

No disrespect meant to you or anybody else if my comments have come across that way

 

[clint van damme]

Didn't say I know any, just making the fact that anybody can be an expert to the people who aren't.

No disrespect meant to you or anybody else if my comments have come across that way

I just want someone to explain to me why we are going to be better off leaving. I can make up my own mind whether I think their arguments are weaker or stronger that the pro remain contributors i've mentioned.
All the arguments I've heard from the leave politicians are weak, inaccurate and at times straight up untrue.

 

[Westendlad]

I just want someone to explain to me why we are going to be better off leaving. I can make up my own mind whether I think their arguments are weaker or stronger that the pro remain contributors i've mentioned.
All the arguments I've heard from the leave politicians are weak, inaccurate and at times straight up untrue.

Paying millions into a corrupt eu is a start.

 

[martcov]

Some might (will) say I'm a fool for voting leave but I had my reasons and would still vote to leave. The thing I would change is the idiots who have ruined the vision of the majority by their complete ineptitude for the way they've handled the whole Brexit.

Britain is (was) a proud nation. The EU is getting too big and is, in my opinion, making a mockery of the brave men and women who fought and died for our freedom. The UK was being consumed by the EU who just want to get more powerful. I for one hate(d) being dictated to by somebody in a different country. I didn't believe the hype (lies) of either the remain or leave campaigns and made my own mind up from my own personal views. There is too much scaremongering going on to which the more gullible members of society believe too easily. Yes some might come true but then again it might be the opposite - it's educated guess work - only time will tell.

By the way, I'm not racist, a Trump supporter (far from it) or an uneducated idiot. I am a successful IT manager with my own mind. I love the diversity this country has.

Britain will be great again or at least would be if the idiots in charge don't (deliberately it seems) destroy it - sounds a bit like our City and it's council

How is peace, prosperity and 28 countries working together a mockery of people died fighting nation states with a pure selfish policy? The EU is exactly what they fought for. No wars. Freedom of movement. No borders ( Schengen ). Nationalism, racism and make x country great again is not what they fought for.

 

[martcov]

Paying millions into a corrupt eu is a start.

Oh god. EU is no more corrupt than the UK. Paying into an organisation you benefit from is sensible.

 

[Ccfcsj]

How is peace, prosperity and 28 countries working together a mockery of people died fighting nation states with a pure selfish policy? The EU is exactly what they fought for. No wars. Freedom of movement. No borders ( Schengen ). Nationalism, racism and make x country great again is not what they fought for.

But not being dictated to by the likes of Germany etc was

 

[martcov]

Everybody knows papers only like to report on the bad stuff and not the good stuff. It sells papers or attracts readers. Any positive news has been deliberately swept under the carpet to cause pessimism and panic.

Yes. You could say that about the Mail, Sun, Telegraph and Express loving every scandal in the EU. Salivating. Getting a hard on. And just tossing themselves off on things like Selmayr‘s appointment.

 

[martcov]

But not being dictated to by the likes of Germany etc was

WTF. What are you on about?

 

[clint van damme]

Paying millions into a corrupt eu is a start.

but the governments own figures say GDP will shrink by 8%, (some sources say as much as 12%) in event of a no deal so even if you buy into the corrupt EU argument that doesn't stack up as a benefit of leaving if we'll still be poorer.

 

[Ccfcsj]

WTF. What are you on about?

If I need to explain there's no point in explaining

 

[martcov]

If I need to explain there's no point in explaining

If you have a valid point, it shouldn’t be a problem to explain it. You’re obviously just saying stupid things, which is why you are running away when challenged.

 

[Ccfcsj]

but the governments own figures say GDP will shrink by 8%, (some sources say as much as 12%) in event of a no deal so even if you buy into the corrupt EU argument that doesn't stack up as a benefit of leaving if we'll still be poorer.

And how much of that is due to the governments ineptitude a getting the best deal

 

[clint van damme]

And how much of that is due to the governments ineptitude a getting the best deal

one of my main reasons for voting remain was my total lack of faith in the tories to deliver.
I've since discovered a whole host of other reasons to convince me that, in my opinion, remain was the corect vote.

 

[Ccfcsj]

If you have a valid point, it shouldn’t be a problem to explain it. You’re obviously just saying stupid things, which is why you are running away when challenged.

OK - where to start. Germany (or at least one person who I will not name but everybody knows who) wanted to take over Europe (and possibly further) to dictate how we should live our lives. We fought against this to ensure our freedom and way of life was in tact. The EU was formed and has grown ever more powerful with certain countries (Germany etc) at the forefront of this. The laws get passed that we have to obey so we no longer have the freedom we kept in those dark times.

That is my opinion and I'm entitled to it. If people don't like it then sorry.

 

[Ccfcsj]

one of my main reasons for voting remain was my total lack of faith in the tories to deliver.

That is one thing we do agree on

 

[fernandopartridge]

Pretty sure the government could make a lot of things that aren’t VAT exempt, exempt. There isn’t a definitive hymn sheet that all countries sing from with no artistic license. Lots of things are VAT exempt in Scandinavian countries especially that aren’t here and I know Malta is does the absolute bare minimum in terms of obligation to EU membership and is reluctant to change. That’s before you even get into the argument that the government could cut VAT tomorrow to 15% should they wish. It is a very unfair disproportionate tax but the government could do a lot to reduce it now, not a good sign that it’s going to change anytime soon once we leave. Indeed if it was going to happen it would be the easiest most welcome good news brexit story ever but it isn’t even being whispered. Which is odd because it always comes up in brexit arguments that it’s the EU making us do it.

I didn't link it to being in or out of the EU, just stated a general view about taxation

 

[martcov]

OK - where to start. Germany (or at least one person who I will not name but everybody knows who) wanted to take over Europe (and possibly further) to dictate how we should live our lives. We fought against this to ensure our freedom and way of life was in tact. The EU was formed and has grown ever more powerful with certain countries (Germany etc) at the forefront of this. The laws get passed that we have to obey so we no longer have the freedom we kept in those dark times.

That is my opinion and I'm entitled to it. If people don't like it then sorry.

Well you know you’re talking absolute bollocks. If not, then you know fxxk all.

You didn’t fight anyone.

The Nazi Regime was defeated. Germany was destroyed, split for over 40 years, and lost a load of territory. All because a certain person promised to make Germany great again ( sound familiar? ).

The EU was formed out of what remained of Europe after the war. No one in Germany wants to go through that again ( apart from a few thousand morons ).

Now explain exactly how democratic Germany is dictating how you run your life.

 

[Ccfcsj]

Well you know you’re talking absolute bollocks. If not, then you know fxxk all.

You didn’t fight anyone.

The Nazi Regime was defeated. Germany was destroyed, split for over 40 years, and lost a load of territory. All because a certain person promised to make Germany great again ( sound familiar? ).

The EU was formed out of what remained of Europe after the war. No one in Germany wants to go through that again ( apart from a few thousand morons ).

Now explain exactly how democratic Germany is dictating how you run your life.

I'm not even going to justify this with a comment. I have my beliefs you have yours, they are obviously different. As for I know fxxk all - sorry for being an uneducated fool (which my qualifications and IQ prove I'm not).

I'll tell you what, I'll crawl back into my cave and try to invent fire - I'm sure that would please you

 

[martcov]

Anybody with the gift can create some very comprehensive arguments for anything they believe in. The reasons for wars etc prove that - are they always right????

Good. Fire away.

 

[martcov]

I'm not even going to justify this with a comment. I have my beliefs you have yours, they are obviously different. As for I know fxxk all - sorry for being an uneducated fool (which my qualifications and IQ prove I'm not).

I'll tell you what, I'll crawl back into my cave and try to invent fire - I'm sure that would please you

It may help you through the winter. I am sure that with your IQ that I don’t need to explain how to rub 2 sticks together.