MalcSB
Well-Known Member
Then they reoffend on their release. Ultimately not very effective,
Then they reoffend on their release. Ultimately not very effective,No punishment deters, that’s not the reason we punish. You have prison sentences mainly to remove them from the streets so they can’t reoffend. We don’t kill or torture people for moral reasons.
You stop crimes with all the boring preventative work not ever increasing punishments.
Then they reoffend on their release. Ultimately not very effective,
It sounds as if the boring preventative work wasn’t applied here. He was a known danger and fuck all was done to stop him. That had a huge bearing on the extreme reaction on social media.
Differently but probably wouldn’t have changed the outcome of the lad was going to do it he was going to do itPete I am sure that if you and everyone on here were in their position you would have acted differently. I certainly wouldn't have allowed my kids to have any weapon of any sort in the house.
The fact that he did the same thing the week before and his dad didn't take it further means that he is every bit as culpable in my eyes and that before you consider the Machete, arrows etc he had allowed him to have.
Far far too manyDo they? I’m not sure what the data says. Pete probably is.
No that was mostly racism let’s be honest. People thought he was an illegal immigrant a Muslim and known to MI5, none of that was true.
Just because someone had a report doesn’t mean they’re a “known danger” we don’t have the resources to follow tens of thousands of kids around. He wasn’t a terrorist he was just a violent boy and there are loads of those.
I get the desire to wish these things were easily fixable and someone must have dropped the ball to let this happen but the reality is bad things happen and this kind of radicalisation is very hard to prevent.
I don’t think the people calling for all this actually want what’s being called for either from a cost or civil liberties POV. It would likely mean huge crackdowns on freedom of speech online, massive tax rises to fund security services and public services like social care and youth schemes, and far more people that are just angry young white men getting arrested and monitored.
The same people want low tax and to be allowed to say anything online without reprise. It’s completely incoherent. Which is fine anger makes you incoherent, but don’t be surprised when it’s not a basis for policy making.
Far far too many
But then prison is a holding bay rather than a meaningful opportunity to do anything with one’s life
Not heard of it beforeSlightly related has anyone else read We Need To Talk About Kevin?
Not heard of it before
Depends what the crime isAbove 50% would you say?
Not heard of it before
It’s supposed to be adding knowledge to our discussions for anyone willing to think outside of their own experiences or prejudicesIts hardly supporting the argument - the father indulged the sociopath and he ended up a mass murderer refusing to acknowledge the mothers concerns
Depends what the crime is
If someone is not released they won’t reoffend which seems obvious but it’s not too understood I don’t think
It feels on here and on my Facebook and x feeds that most think any violent crime should mean someone is locked up for life and any murder or killing of another person seemingly even by accident and especially if first second or maybe even third generation immigrant, especially if non white should get the death penalty
#prayforaxelsparents
Not sure the shrugging of the shoulders and the "Oh it would cost billions to fix issues like this" works as an excuse.
I’m not sure demanding anyone and everyone is put to death every time works either.
Everyone involved in this says services have been cut to the bone and any fixes will cost money. There’s no getting around that. You can’t spend 90% of your time demanding the government spends less and voting accordingly then complain that the services didn’t stop bad things.
You get what you pay for ultimately.
I’m not sure demanding anyone and everyone is put to death every time works either.
Everyone involved in this says services have been cut to the bone and any fixes will cost money. There’s no getting around that. You can’t spend 90% of your time demanding the government spends less and voting accordingly then complain that the services didn’t stop bad things.
You get what you pay for ultimately.
I want him put to death because what he did was so brutal and the victims so young. It’s vengeance I will freely admitI’m not sure demanding anyone and everyone is put to death every time works either.
Everyone involved in this says services have been cut to the bone and any fixes will cost money. There’s no getting around that. You can’t spend 90% of your time demanding the government spends less and voting accordingly then complain that the services didn’t stop bad things.
You get what you pay for ultimately.
Demanding somebody is put to death for planning a mass attack of 7 year old girls and then being happy about it after?
It isn't like he flew under the radar, I would get it if it was one of the "nobody would have ever expected it" but he was a ticking time bomb and multiple authorities knew all about him.
The justice system seemed to kick into overdrive when it wanted to find people posting shit on social media, how about firing that up for people like this every once in a while? Maybe get Starmer telling people who carry knives that they will be found, they will be stopped and then have their front doors kicked in at 5am.
Can't keep whinging "there's no money so we can't do anything" but then send over £10b to Ukraine while we can't do the basics here.
Demanding somebody is put to death for planning a mass attack of 7 year old girls and then being happy about it after?
It isn't like he flew under the radar, I would get it if it was one of the "nobody would have ever expected it" but he was a ticking time bomb and multiple authorities knew all about him.
The justice system seemed to kick into overdrive when it wanted to find people posting shit on social media, how about firing that up for people like this every once in a while? Maybe get Starmer telling people who carry knives that they will be found, they will be stopped and then have their front doors kicked in at 5am.
Can't keep whinging "there's no money so we can't do anything" but then send over £10b to Ukraine while we can't do the basics here.
And his parents. And Keir Starmer. And whoever else. It’s just undirected anger. As I said understandable but not particularly useful in stopping it happening again.
And still you won’t accept it. “Oh Ukraine”. I’m not sure handing social workers out of date missiles is going to help but maybe.
I mean, Starmer is the Prime Minister. He could go on TV today and say look, any c**t with a knife you are getting dealt with. Anybody with a cache of weapons at their house and terror material, you are getting dealt with as well.
The police had dealt with him multiple times for carrying a knife, one of the times it was when he had gone into a school and battered somebody with a hockey stick (while he had a knife in his bag) but the c**t was still allowed to roam free.
"social workers caseload". Another shit excuse.
Maybe it could use the the billions in cash they are getting to get more social workers?
When you say zero excuse what do you mean? Zero excuse for the person doing it? For his parents? His teachers? His church? His community? Prevent? Police? Security services?#prayforaxelsparents
Not sure the shrugging of the shoulders and the "Oh it would cost billions to fix issues like this" works as an excuse.
He had literally taken knives to school, openly said over and over he wanted to kill mass people, been caught with knives multiple times by the police, downloaded terror handbooks, made ricin, had a cache of weapons in his house.
There is zero excuse. "budget cuts, social services workload, police cuts, just an angry teenage boy etc etc". It's bollocks.
OK let’s walk through this. Let’s say we want to deal with any c**t with a knife.
We will start at the end. We need somewhere to put them. The previous govenrment spent 14 years avoiding building prisons cos they cost money and we should have low taxes above all else. So we can’t put them anywhere for a couple of years while we wait for that.
Before that they need to be tried, court backlogs are at record highs because again the government you support cut funding to both people working in the system and to repairing the buildings meaning again there’s no capacity to do that. Stopping an ongoing riot worked short term and was expensive and required letting other people out of prison to put these in. It’s not appropriate for a long term ongoing issue.
Before we try then we need to catch them, police have had funding cut and are stretched.
Before the police get there we need to identify them, social programs and schools have had funding cut.
You want there to be some magic bullet that stops this and costs you nothing and doesn’t link back to your voting choices the last two decades but it doesn’t exist. You determined that low taxes trump all, now live with it.
Ita not an excuse it’s reality. Everyone with any working knowledge of the system is telling you this but you ignore them and believe some random Twitter account telling you it’s the foreigners instead. If you ever want to live in reality there’s thousands of reports on this stuff.
£228m last year to Ukraine BTW, so not billions, you can’t even get that right.
Not really related to the thread but I’m desperate for someone in government to talk about non discretionary spending and discretionaryDemanding somebody is put to death for planning a mass attack of 7 year old girls and then being happy about it after?
It isn't like he flew under the radar, I would get it if it was one of the "nobody would have ever expected it" but he was a ticking time bomb and multiple authorities knew all about him.
The justice system seemed to kick into overdrive when it wanted to find people posting shit on social media, how about firing that up for people like this every once in a while? Maybe get Starmer telling people who carry knives that they will be found, they will be stopped and then have their front doors kicked in at 5am.
Can't keep whinging "there's no money so we can't do anything" but then send over £10b to Ukraine while we can't do the basics here.
Like I said, things can be ramped up when they want them to and they can have people in court, sentenced and locked up within the week. We have already seen that it can be done.
Put it into perspective, this c**t was known, he had been caught and convicted of violence. He had been caught with knives multiple times and had been identified. It didn't need more investigation or extra police officers as he was already known.
Knife crime is an epidemic, why not convert some secure camps that are sat about doing fuck all and get them all in there. For the less serious crime (just carrying one) then get them locked up in an old army camp for a bit with some hard graft.
How many thousands of people are there up and down the country at the minute who have been caught multiple times with knives, violence etc but are still roaming about without being punished?
Sorry, the "there's no money" shit is nonsense when it comes to something as serious as this. Especially when the govt can pull money out to send abroad or to pay for hotels.
You have fuck all clue about my voting choices or what my taxes determined, Why are you making things up again?
I think ukraine and asylum are non discretionary items
Worse we will vote in reform who will magnify the cuts big timeOK let’s walk through this. Let’s say we want to deal with any c**t with a knife.
We will start at the end. We need somewhere to put them. The previous govenrment spent 14 years avoiding building prisons cos they cost money and we should have low taxes above all else. So we can’t put them anywhere for a couple of years while we wait for that.
Before that they need to be tried, court backlogs are at record highs because again the government you support cut funding to both people working in the system and to repairing the buildings meaning again there’s no capacity to do that. Stopping an ongoing riot worked short term and was expensive and required letting other people out of prison to put these in. It’s not appropriate for a long term ongoing issue.
Before we try then we need to catch them, police have had funding cut and are stretched.
Before the police get there we need to identify them, social programs and schools have had funding cut.
You want there to be some magic bullet that stops this and costs you nothing and doesn’t link back to your voting choices the last two decades but it doesn’t exist. You determined that low taxes trump all, now live with it.
Where did I say it was billions in a year to Ukraine? I didn't, I said sending them Billions. (I didn't put a time frame on it)
Nice try though.
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