Nick
Administrator
I'd say knife crime in this country is extreme.
"it will need staffing and people need training" isn't really an excuse either though, is it?
Because you’re on here every time anyone suggests returning spending to normal levels ranting about why can’t we stop helping foreigners instead. It doesn’t take a mind reader.
Things weren’t “ramped up when they want” just like in 2011 it was determined that the best way to stop ongoing riots costing tens of millions in damages was for people to work through the night at great cost. We don’t have a large number of people waiting to be processed to stop an ongoing civil disorder. It’s like asking why we can go into debt for war and Covid but not to give everyone a free bus pass. Extreme events are extreme.
I’ve no idea what secure camps you’re on about but whatever it is will need staffing and people will need training and the courts will still need to perform justice. There’s really no way around this.
I'd say knife crime in this country is extreme.
"it will need staffing and people need training" isn't really an excuse either though, is it?
What is a 'secure camp' (other than a GB news soundbite)?
It’s the fucking answer you dipshit. You can keep going “it’s not an excuse is it?” But when every single person involved in this from prisons to security services to the justice system to the police to social services to schools says it is ill trust them over Ranty McAngry on SBT.
Some of us want to fix this. Some of us clearly just want to rant about immigrants and Ukraine.
It isn't the answer though, is it? "we have no money, can't do it" isn't an answer.
I mean, Starmer is the Prime Minister. He could go on TV today and say look, any c**t with a knife you are getting dealt with. Anybody with a cache of weapons at their house and terror material, you are getting dealt with as well.
The police had dealt with him multiple times for carrying a knife, one of the times it was when he had gone into a school and battered somebody with a hockey stick (while he had a knife in his bag) but the c**t was still allowed to roam free.
You do know that Starmer defender a baby murder and help abolish the death penalty in some Caribbean countries. The bloke is a complete scumbag.
“we have cut far too much and need to restore funding if we want things to work again” isn’t an excuse. It’s reality. Ukraine and immigrants is an excuse because it’s got fuck all to do with anything. These are mostly short term one off costs that come from the aid budget not ongoing costs that we need to pay year on year regardless.
Have you tried to get a kid a CAMHS appointment recently? Have you been through the courts recently? I have. The idea that these services can identify and process troubled kids when they can’t do the basics right now is fairytale stuff.
They didn't need to identify anything though, he was already identified. Why do you keep missing this point?
He wasn't some kid who nobody would have ever expected it from (where your point would make sense).
He was openly doing and saying things, carrying knives, telling people he wanted to kill, attacking people. Authorities wouldn't deal with him without police there.
He was referred to Prevent where he was not appropriate. The populist response has been that we should expand the terror definition to include cases like this, the security head says that would be “extremely expensive”.
He was kicked out of school and went to special school. And his dad talked to a taxi driver. He was referred to police by Childline for rhetoric five years ago. Police do not have the resources to follow everything up for years. He’s not committed a crime, the police would refer to social services at worst.
You are making out like he was on some Top Ten Likely Murderers list at the local station and everyone just didn’t bother.
You do know that Starmer defender a baby murder and help abolish the death penalty in some Caribbean countries. The bloke is a complete scumbag.
What do you mean he hadn't committed a crime? He had committed multiple crimes.
When Childline referred him it was because he said he was being racially bullied and was going to take a knife with him. That’s a red flag not a crime.
As you say later on in the post, you’re talking about thousands and thousands of people. This is on a totally different scale from the rioters.Like I said, things can be ramped up when they want them to and they can have people in court, sentenced and locked up within the week. We have already seen that it can be done.
As you say later on in the post, you’re talking about thousands and thousands of people. This is on a totally different scale from the rioters.
I tend to think that “We don’t have the space” is a piss-poor excuse for not properly enforcing the law, but let’s not pretend these are equally straightforward problems.
Cool story, what about his actual crimes? I am sure he had a piss every day as well which isn't a crime either.
If you could read properly you’d see that that sentence was referring to the Childline referral.
He was sentenced for the hockey attack. What other crimes are you talking about, here’s the full list of his interactions with the state:
https://www.itv.com/news/2025-01-23/what-was-known-when-by-authorities-about-axel-rudakubana
He was found in possession of a knife during a search by police and was "taken home and placed in the care of his parents".
Officers spoke to Rudakubana, where he admitted bringing the knife to school. Police also spoke to his school.
In November 2021, his father called police after an argument where Rudakubana had kicked his father and damaged his car. Police attended, but his father did not want to prosecute.
I can read, I just pointed out that you tried to argue me saying "he had committed crimes" with something that wasn't a crime.
All criminal offences after the Childline call...
He was excluded from school in 2019 for battering somebody with a hockey stick and having a knife in his bag.
He was then found to have a knife on him in 2022 in public. (when he already had a conviction and previous)
His dad didnt want to prosecute, so the police wouldn’t act there.
He was prosecuted and sentenced for the hockey attack so that doesn’t count as not being followed up. That actually happened after he was excluded the reason he was excluded was because of him admitting to carrying a knife so that also wasn’t ignored.
At best you’ve got a 13 year old caught with a knife and not immediately arrested.
Yeah, they were all crimes he committed.
You're acting like it was some sort of surprise and nobody would have ever guessed it. He didn't fucking need identifying, he was there in broad daylight.
Im not sure you understand how many kids this applies to. There’s an estimated 140,000 kids carrying knives. About 12,000 a year permanently excluded (and that usually requires violence). Of those one did this. It’s needle in a haystack.
Look I get the desire to find some obvious easy fix to these sort of crimes but it doesn’t exist and if you want every single teenager who gets into a fight or carries a knife to be monitored 24/7 you’re talking about a huge cost. Ditto if you want them all locked up and the vast majority will just be teenagers being stupid teenagers.
More could definitely be done to follow up on violent kids but it’s not free. He should have had quicker mental health assessments but CAMHS referrals take forever like years to happen. My daughter is on a three year wait list, I’ve known suicidal kids wait their entire secondary school life for a referral.
He had a conviction for violence and carrying a knife
He was kicked out of school for carrying a knife
A couple of years later he is found in public with a knife and the punishment was....Take him home to mum and dad.
Can you not see the issue? I'm not sure why you are trying to make out it's just "boys being boys". I was a stupid c**t as a teenager, so were my mates. None of us carried knives, had a cache of weapons or had a conviction for violence and carrying a knife before we were 16 though.
I carried a knife briefly for protection around 12/13, I know others that did.
He was found with a knife after a search because his mum had reported him missing. That’s why he was taken home, because it was a missing persons case.
I don’t know if the knife met the requirements for being illegal on its own. Minimum sentencing only applies over 16 for carrying a knife. AFAICT there’s no sentencing for U16s at all.
Children and Young People – 16 and 17 years
The starting point for children and young people aged 16 or 17 for simple possession should be to charge unless there are exceptional circumstances that would make it appropriate to issue a Youth Conditional Caution (YCC). Where the suspect has any history of offences of violence, has previously been dealt with for a knife/weapon offence, or the offence under investigation is an offence other than simple possession, then they should be charged.
Children and Young People - under 16 Years The starting point for a child aged under 16 for simple possession who has not previously been involved in any violent offending, or offences including knives or weapons should be a YCC. There may be circumstances where an alternative disposal may be appropriate, but this should be reserved for truly exceptional cases. Where the suspect has any history of offences of violence, has previously been dealt with for a knife/weapon offence or the offence under investigation is an offence other than simple possession, then they should be charged.
Maybe this is why you're acting like this kid was more normal then.
Why is it relevant that his mum reporting him missing but then they found a knife? If they found a gun or some C4 would it be ignored because his mum reported him missing?
I’ve given you the stats. I’ve worked in shitty schools in shitty areas, I’ve grown up at shitty schools so yeah I have a bit more context than you clearly.
You asked why they took him home, I explained why. Carrying a knife alone under 16 doesn’t usually involve getting prosecuted that’s the law. It involved being referred to a multi agency safeguarding team, which is what happened. Those agencies are under staffed and under funded as I keep repeating. It would involve CAHMS and social services, both of which have multiple year wait lists because of underfunding. We’re going around in circles.
This will end like Baby P, like a million other inquiries: services were stretched and as a result couldn’t act in time or follow up enough, at best there will be a recommendation for mandatory reporting which just increases the workload on already strained services. Locking more people up will do the same. You can open the taps wider all you want but if the pipes they’re feeding into remain at the same capacity all you’re doing is adding more hay and hoping to find more needles.
Yes and I have shown you that if he has previous and was under 16 he should have been charged. It was fuck all to do with CAHMS, the YCC is for when it happens the first time...
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Not sure why you're acting like you grew up in Compton or something though.Now you know how I vote, what I want to pay taxes for, where I grew up, experiences etc. Such a skill you have.
Im not acting like anything. Im telling you what I’ve seen with my own eyes. You said you haven’t seen it. There’s nothing more than that.
I’m going off the sentencing council website. If you’ve got more the great share it. I’m not sure what that PowerPoint refers to. But I’m telling you from experience of working with and working through these agencies what the people in them say is the issue. And what the multi year inquiries before recommended.
You want to find a single policeman or social worker who didn’t do their job and sack them and then all youth crime will be prevented it seems. The world doesn’t work like that.
I said I had never carried a knife, and neither had my mates... Let's not get into making shit up again.
As I said, he should have been charged the second time but wasn't. You can go on about agencies like CAHMS all you want, but at that point, it had escalated way above them.
No, ideally, people do their jobs properly. People bringing their kids up properly would be a help, too.
It’s a good question and I suppose the answer is clearly not otherwise we would have prioritised the taxation and spending accordinglyYeah but locking up people who openly say they want to kill, get caught with knives multiple times, go into a school to attack a pupil and then go on to kill innocent kids isn't?
I clearly wasn't being serious about you growing up in Compton. That's why I said you are acting like it.Who is making things up? Ironically you keep making things up I’ve said like I grew up in Compton. Or that he wasn’t prosecuted for things he was prosecuted for. Or that it was a terror attack. Or that we send billions in cash to Ukraine. The irony. All you’ve got is a laughing emoji and a claim people are making things up and not a solid argument despite reams of text.
You’ve not provided a source for your image and I can’t find it with tineye so I’m going from what I can see on various government websites until proven otherwise.
You’re desperate to find some person who has fucked up so you can say it was all their fault and not the fault of people with politics like yours who go on about public sector workers being lazy and how if we just treated a few more foreigners and public sector workers like shit everything would be OK.
You won’t even entertain the answers that every single expert in the field is giving you because it doesn’t fit with your priors.
It’s all so fucking transparent and frankly boring. If you don’t care then stop posting, if you do then have a normal conversation and stop looking for gotchas.
He was referred to Prevent where he was not appropriate. The populist response has been that we should expand the terror definition to include cases like this, the security head says that would be “extremely expensive”.
He was kicked out of school and went to special school. And his dad talked to a taxi driver. He was referred to police by Childline for rhetoric five years ago. Police do not have the resources to follow everything up for years. He’s not committed a crime, the police would refer to social services at worst.
You are making out like he was on some Top Ten Likely Murderers list at the local station and everyone just didn’t bother.
I agree 100% with the counter terrorism chief we known what the inquiry will say because they all say the same thing for the past decade “failings happened because of under resourced and overworked services”
Come on pva Gordon on Twitter shared a memeThe death penalty is in place in every Caribbean country except Dominican Republic and Haiti, both of which abolished it decades before Starmer had anything to do with it.
I clearly wasn't being serious about you growing up in Compton. That's why I said you are acting like it.
Maybe you can look properly for the source of my image and then rule it out. I didn't just make it myself. It clearly states if it's not a first offence then to charge him (let's not forget you didn't seem to think he had committed any crime at all)
Wait so now it's my fault because of my politics (which again, you have no fucking clue about or what tax I'd pay) and not the people who fucked up and caused it to happen.
I'm sure people who buy drugs are more to blame for knife crime though if you want to get into that one?
I don't need to be desperate to find people who have fucked up, they clearly have.
It definitely needs a knife task force doesn’t it
This has to be a marker in the sand like dunblane was
It’s why the immigration and Islam arguments aren’t helpful
They are for other conversations but not for this
Cooper needs to step up and be counted it’s an opportunity to do something to be proud of
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