What options are there to the status quo? Remain as we are, or ask the 27 others to form a new EU to suit us?
The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (105 Viewers)
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What options are there to the status quo? Remain as we are, or ask the 27 others to form a new EU to suit us?
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
Interesting interview on C4 news with Marine Le Pen. Even her National Rally Party aren’t looking to leave the EU or even the Euro. Mind you Ferage once claimed to love it if we were like Norway so who knows where her true colours lay. She’s not too keen on Ferage either. Seems he’s a bit too extreme for her. Wow.
Grendel
Well-Known Member
Well for a start some may want the status quo and no more political integration - so an option could be if there is more treaties there is a legally binary referendum in the uk that decided to accept or reject further integration - those who voted in the early 70’s did not vote for what we have now
Milk shakes versus shooting.
We have vetos. So, we should elect a government which pledges to use our vetos. Has nothing to do with the EU or other EU members. At the moment there is no party manifesto offering to give up our vetos, so it is irrelevant to a referendum. You can’t bind future parliaments anyway. You may have a point at some future date, but that is a party policy thing and has to be decided at the time. The people who voted in the 70s could have stopped any government altering the terms of EU membership by giving up vetos by voting them out. The fact that they didn’t and everything that was negotiated was then ratified shows that most people just like to get on with their lives.
Society has changed through globalization and technology. Add the crash of 2008 and the resulting austerity and you have a lot of people left behind. The people on the right blame the EU for all the problems. No organisation is perfect, but far right USA Economics and Laisser-faire anti big government Tory policies are not helping the poor. People like Banks and Farage are well aware of that, but point in the direction of the EU to distract from what they are actually encouraging. The EU has laws and regulations to protect the poor and consumers, but Farage and co mock those as being restrictive for business. Ironically, the people most likely to suffer are following Farage, literally blindly.
Farage has created the myth that other right wing parties want to leave the EU at the earliest possible convenience. They don’t. They want a more right wing EU, more anti migration
and anti Islam. They don’t want new ( reopened ) borders in Europe or competing armies. An EU of Nation States. But still an EU.
Only Britain, under Farage‘s influence, is mad enough to go it alone. Farage the pied piper.
New Video Shows Nigel Farage Courting Fringe Right-Wing Figures At A Private Tea Party Hosted At The Ritz
Farage leading the fight against the elite from the Ritz Hotel as guest of the owners of the MSM Telegraph and the Ritz. His millionaire backers including a Putin admirer... But, still some on here are convinced that he is on their side fighting for democracy and against the undemocratic EU by campaigning in a democratic election to the EU parliament against the rich remainer elite. Can’t you see it? Are you blind? Madness.
Farage leading the fight against the elite from the Ritz Hotel as guest of the owners of the MSM Telegraph and the Ritz. His millionaire backers including a Putin admirer... But, still some on here are convinced that he is on their side fighting for democracy and against the undemocratic EU by campaigning in a democratic election to the EU parliament against the rich remainer elite. Can’t you see it? Are you blind? Madness.
W
westcountry_skyblue
Guest
The electoral commission were at Brexit Party HQ for 7 hours today and found no wrong doing in party funding.
So that blows you remainers out of the water.
What about Labour selling off all the gold at the lowest price?
Also cash for peerages,Gordon brown needs to look closer to home before spouting crap!!
SkyblueBazza
Well-Known Member
In politics I suspect that is true in virtually ALL situations.
Politicians spout about transparency & yet hold these talks behind a veil. And/or are almost entirely hypocritical. Like the Austrian situation...the moderates are reportedly trying use that to to scare (isn't that the behaviour of extreme politics?) Voters away from the far-right i.e. cant trust them, they are corrupt. We have countless of examples showing moderates are just as corrupt...from expenses fiddling being political culture to VW emissions & many more besides
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D
Deleted member 5849
Guest
Ehhhhh.
Anyway, now rationality descends, she's going to lose even more heavily isn't she? Opposition won't vote for it on the promise of a vote in the future that may or may not get what they want, after they vote for something they don't want. Meanwhile previously loyal Tories will be mighjtily pee'd off with certain concessions.
Could be a bloodbath.
Anyway, now rationality descends, she's going to lose even more heavily isn't she? Opposition won't vote for it on the promise of a vote in the future that may or may not get what they want, after they vote for something they don't want. Meanwhile previously loyal Tories will be mighjtily pee'd off with certain concessions.
Could be a bloodbath.
Didn’t answer my point. The Brexit party did not activate everything on their PayPal account, so you cannot see where the donations came from. They also had a higher number of donations than visitors to their site on some days. Maybe that wasn’t checked.
My point was that they are the elite. You don’t get more elite than by owning the Telegraph and the Ritz Hotel. A large number of Brexit candidates are involved in Hedgefunds, trading and derivatives. The Barclay brothers live abroad and don’t pay UK tax, Why do you think those people want Brexit? Do you think they are on your side?
They were caught red handed doing a corrupt deal with a supposed family member of a Russian oligarch family. They were prepared to take work off Strabag ( Road builders) and give contracts to a Russian owned firm in exchange for favourable reporting in a tabloid paper to be purchased by the Russians. A typical right wing scam. Right wing Australians were just caught out doing a similar thing. Banks is being investigated for similar things ( shares in Russian gold mines ).
Selling your country for power is not comparable to fiddling expenses.
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Pathetic. VW emissions? Versus selling your country for power as a politician. VW is a commercial concern which tried to get a commercial advantage by cheating. The extreme right were going use government contracts to pay for electoral support. What did Banks offer the Russians, ( or maybe the Russians offer Banks ), at their boozy meetings discussing diamonds and gold mines? Or the Australian right who were trying to get millions from the NRA to get more senators elected against laxer gun controls? There are you trying to get emissions and expenses fiddles to justify corrupt right wing politicians. Pathetic. The extreme right is full of chancers and crooks. They don’t have a monopoly on that, but seem to have a higher percentage of traitors and crooks among them.
shmmeee
Well-Known Member
Do you just parrot everything Farage says, or do you pick and choose?
Yes every party ever has given peerages to donors. Only one party has tried to reform the system and that’s not the right.
And the gold decision was a reasonable investment strategy to diversify our investments at a time when gold prices were dropping. What signs did you see in the market that it was likely to rebound?
dutchman
Well-Known Member
It's only a matter a time...
Brexit news: ‘I’d prefer acid’ Charity boss suspended after vile anti-Farage tweet
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dutchman
Well-Known Member
The gold was dumped to save Goldman Sachs.
Goldman Sachs were shorting the gold market. If Brown hadn't dumped Britain's reserves at the price he did the price would have risen and the bank gone bust.
What’s dangerous about me? I haven’t suggested picking up a rifle for example.
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Of course it’s comparable to these people as throwing a milkshake is comparable to killing an MP.
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But VW are part of the metropolitan elite. The new right wing parties selling power to the Russians is democracy and for the people
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Sick Boy
Super Moderator
The hypocrisy is astounding.
Apparently it’s the left that are hypocrites as we are responsible for the actions of anyone who can vaguely be roped into our side. Apparently that now includes VW.
The right, never hold any responsibility for the actions of individuals even if they’ve spurred them on. Just the actions of a lone wolf with mental illness you see.
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Are you suggesting there should be more than one remain option or that it should be one option but a different one to “hard remain”?
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Grendel
Well-Known Member
A deranged individual killed an Mp who had no affiliation to a political party
Grendel
Well-Known Member
What I am saying is that the remain argument that leavers don’t know what type of Brexit they want is the same for both sides.
Many who vote remain will not want further political or fiscal integration and will believe the lies that are peddled that the veto cannot be removed, tax rates can be managed from Brussels and that we can be forced to join the Euro
Astute
Well-Known Member
Remember when Jaguar tried the same and you was all over it?
As usual you don't have a clue about the Scunny plant or you are trying to use it to make a point. I know a lot of people who work or have worked there. It has always been on dodgy ground for a lot if years.
Sick Boy
Super Moderator
Then surely that applies to milkshake throwers too?
Sick Boy
Super Moderator
Yeah cos there are no billionaires supporting Brexit and Farage has to drink at Wetherspoons because he’s watching his pennies
Astute
Well-Known Member
Hypocrites? VW? Lone wolves?
You try to pin the title on one side. But it is easy to look at your words and see it as an EU thing. The EU tried to protect VW.
So what is your meaning of a hypocrite?
Astute
Well-Known Member
Farage is a twat. But so are the vast majority involved in this fiasco. Some seem to think that we should be able to silence some of them but not others. We have freedom of speech and it shouldn't be taken away unless what is said is unlawful.
SkyblueBazza
Well-Known Member
He is a twat...a popular one though. I would imagine most supporting his Brexit Party are doing so because it says what it means. What the majority perhaps voted leave for...Brexit! They didn't vote to have another vote or some half-cocked in-out future relationship. They just wanted a clear way out of the way the EU is projecting itself.
Once Brexit is over, so will Farage be - I doubt many would support the views he holds that some on here are talking about with repugnance.
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Sorry what is your point? Think you may have misunderstood my post.
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SkyBlueDom26
Well-Known Member
Hopefully May will be out by tomorrow
dutchman
Well-Known Member
Not a chance I'm afraid. They don't count the vote until Sunday and she couldn't care less about the result of it in any case.