The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (132 Viewers)

[Grendel]

I'm assuming brexit party is in line to win today?

37% according to latest polls

 

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[djr8369]

You don't get it do you?

All main party votes have been decimated. Something new has come in and will take about a third of the votes. Yet you say it means nothing?

So there is still denial. And this is why those who want to remain won't get anywhere.

What don’t I get I get? It seems it’s you who doesn’t get it again.

Yes, the Brexit party will pick up about a third of the vote.

Yes, this will send a message.

But the Brexit party will not be able to action their single policy from the European Parliament. This is irrefutable. Once again Brexit is an expression of anger and frustration with little consideration of practicalities or logic.


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[djr8369]

On a practical level what would a large Brexit party majority do with seats on a council they don't want to be part of?

Assuming the Brexit party wins, can they maintain that in a UK election why they appear to be a single policy party at this time? If we get an election Brexit will not be the primary issue to the extent it is in this EU election.

It will be how the results get interpreted here that will be key, my concern is that it will be interpreted wrong.

An unelected council no less


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[rob9872]

Results aren't announced until Sunday.

Two pedants! Ok Monday then - the point is that she'll be totally humiliated and I simply cant see the party putting up with that and allowing her to continue, but she is, if nothing else, stubborn to the end.

 

[Grendel]

What don’t I get I get? It seems it’s you who doesn’t get it again.

Yes, the Brexit party will pick up about a third of the vote.

Yes, this will send a message.

But the Brexit party will not be able to action their single policy from the European Parliament. This is irrefutable. Once again Brexit is an expression of anger and frustration with little consideration of practicalities or logic.


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They will be by far the biggest party in Brussels - Tusk and that rather strange Dutch man have orders the uk to back Heidi Whatshername who is going to suffer crushing humiliation - it shows to Europe that large swathes of Britain don’t give a fuck what these faceless autocrats want and that this issue is not going away

The House of Commons equally will be horrified and know if they do not act before a general election the next election will be a lottery with no party likely to command a third of the vote

 

[Astute]

It will be how the results get interpreted here that will be key, my concern is that it will be interpreted wrong.

Exactly.

Those who shout the loudest in unison get heard. Only one part is getting heard. The rest are too busy squabbling to be heard by anyone. As we all know I said I could see this happening months ago.

Those in parliament who want to remain are easily in the majority. But it has all been about leaving so far. They haven't come together like they should have done. All they have done is argue like schoolkids. And who wants to listen to children arguing?

So the main voice is on leaving. How can a quieter voice get the better of this?

 

[Sick Boy]

But you moan about him being heard and having a voice. Freedom of speech is one of the good things about being in the UK.

When have I moaned about him having a voice? I’ve criticised him for engaging with Bannon and for a far right presenter spreading lies.

 

[djr8369]

Exactly.

Those who shout the loudest in unison get heard. Only one part is getting heard. The rest are too busy squabbling to be heard by anyone. As we all know I said I could see this happening months ago.

Those in parliament who want to remain are easily in the majority. But it has all been about leaving so far. They haven't come together like they should have done. All they have done is argue like schoolkids. And who wants to listen to children arguing?

So the main voice is on leaving. How can a quieter voice get the better of this?

What part do you think is getting heard?

To answer your final question I have no idea. There’s no room for a debate or battle of ideas now, it’s all slogans and shouting. People won’t listen to a quieter voice until they want to and that likely won’t be until any louder voice has lost any credibility whatsoever.


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[djr8369]

They will be by far the biggest party in Brussels - Tusk and that rather strange Dutch man have orders the uk to back Heidi Whatshername who is going to suffer crushing humiliation - it shows to Europe that large swathes of Britain don’t give a fuck what these faceless autocrats want and that this issue is not going away

The House of Commons equally will be horrified and know if they do not act before a general election the next election will be a lottery with no party likely to command a third of the vote

I wish our politicians were faceless autocrats rather than dick swinging, slogan shouting, exploitive shit gibbons.


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[Astute]

What don’t I get I get? It seems it’s you who doesn’t get it again.

Yes, the Brexit party will pick up about a third of the vote.

Yes, this will send a message.

But the Brexit party will not be able to action their single policy from the European Parliament. This is irrefutable. Once again Brexit is an expression of anger and frustration with little consideration of practicalities or logic.


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I don't get it?

You have just contradicted yourself and you still don't get it.

Yes it will send a message. A very big message. That message is that the parties which would expect the majority of the votes normally might not even get the amount of votes leave gets combined.

Most MP's have one thing in common. They want to get back in. So do you think that enough of them will continue to go against the largest majority?

Isn't it amazing how some try and make out that I haven't got a clue even when what I predict keeps happening.

 

[Astute]

They will be by far the biggest party in Brussels - Tusk and that rather strange Dutch man have orders the uk to back Heidi Whatshername who is going to suffer crushing humiliation - it shows to Europe that large swathes of Britain don’t give a fuck what these faceless autocrats want and that this issue is not going away

The House of Commons equally will be horrified and know if they do not act before a general election the next election will be a lottery with no party likely to command a third of the vote

And worse of all Farage could stand to be elected as PM. And if this farcical mess has continued he could end up as PM. If this happened it would be time to get out of the UK like I am.

 

[SIR ERNIE]

Bearing in mind the party was only formed a few weeks ago, anything above 20% would be an impressive performance. If they do get anything in the 30’s it’ll scare the life out of the main parties.

17.4m Brits were never going to allow a stitch up between the UK establishment and a ragtag bunch of unknown EU officials to ignore their voice.

 

[SIR ERNIE]

And worse of all Farage could stand to be elected as PM. .

Couldn't be worse than May... or Corbyn and his comrades.

 

[Astute]

What part do you think is getting heard?

To answer your final question I have no idea. There’s no room for a debate or battle of ideas now, it’s all slogans and shouting. People won’t listen to a quieter voice until they want to and that likely won’t be until any louder voice has lost any credibility whatsoever.


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Are you saying that people don't want to listen about remaining?

Remember when the marches were going on? The same was said about the leavers. No voice. Nobody interested. Nothing would happen.... Yes I took the insults as usual for saying Farage and his new party would mess it up. And if you remember before he set it up I said I could see him doing it.

This is what I mean by denial. Don't worry. It won't happen. Then when it happens chaos resumes. Now you say nothing will happen if the Brexit party walks away with the vote. Try to reconsider. It isn't looking good.

 

[djr8369]

I don't get it?

You have just contradicted yourself and you still don't get it.

Yes it will send a message. A very big message. That message is that the parties which would expect the majority of the votes normally might not even get the amount of votes leave gets combined.

Most MP's have one thing in common. They want to get back in. So do you think that enough of them will continue to go against the largest majority?

Isn't it amazing how some try and make out that I haven't got a clue even when what I predict keeps happening.

Where have I contradicted myself?

A third of the vote isn’t the majority though is it. Yes it will send a strong message and no doubt MPs will panic and no doubt people will try and make out it is a majority.


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[djr8369]

Are you saying that people don't want to listen about remaining?

Remember when the marches were going on? The same was said about the leavers. No voice. Nobody interested. Nothing would happen.... Yes I took the insults as usual for saying Farage and his new party would mess it up. And if you remember before he set it up I said I could see him doing it.

This is what I mean by denial. Don't worry. It won't happen. Then when it happens chaos resumes. Now you say nothing will happen if the Brexit party walks away with the vote. Try to reconsider. It isn't looking good.

Nope I’m asking you which part you are saying is getting heard.

Then I’m commenting on your last paragraph about how a quieter voice gets heard.

What am I denying?

I’m not saying nothing will happen at all. Why have you said that? I said it will send a message but they cannot act on their policy from within the EU.


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[Astute]

Couldn't be worse than May... or Corbyn and his comrades.

So somebody with only one aim of taking us out of the EU could be trusted to run the UK?

And would he be the best person to have talks with the EU on a trade deal if we end up leaving without one?

 

[Grendel]

I wish our politicians were faceless autocrats rather than dick swinging, slogan shouting, exploitive shit gibbons.


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Then the EU serves you well. The pension pillager Tusk is exactly what you deserve

 

[Astute]

Where have I contradicted myself?

A third of the vote isn’t the majority though is it. Yes it will send a strong message and no doubt MPs will panic and no doubt people will try and make out it is a majority.


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You said it would give them a voice but would make no difference.

Shall we wait and see what happens before we call it a majority or not?

 

[Astute]

Nope I’m asking you which part you are saying is getting heard.

Then I’m commenting on your last paragraph about how a quieter voice gets heard.

What am I denying?

I’m not saying nothing will happen at all. Why have you said that? I said it will send a message but they cannot act on their policy from within the EU.


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You are a typical remain whatever happens. You won't listen to a word that you don't agree with. This is why we are now in this situation.

 

[SIR ERNIE]

You are a typical remain whatever happens. You won't listen to a word that you don't agree with. This is why we are now in this situation.

Actually, the truth is that we're in this situation because 3 years ago Tusk and Juncker arrogantly refused to offer Cameron anything whatsoever to bring back to the UK to strengthen his argument to remain. Remainers can't stand to hear that but it's a fact.

 

[djr8369]

You are a typical remain whatever happens. You won't listen to a word that you don't agree with. This is why we are now in this situation.

You keep reading my posts, making a whole host of assumptions and then throwing an angry word salad at me.

You make some good points but you’re all over the place.

The point I made is that the Brexit party cannot action their single policy from the European Parliament. This is a fact. That does not mean I do not understand the message it sends.

I also do not expect to remain, only that the debate isn’t completely controlled by people shouting the loudest which is why I responded to your point on that.


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[Earlsdon_Skyblue1]

Question:

Are we going to need some more tissues on here when the result comes out?

 

[ccfc92]

Question:

Are we going to need some more tissues on here when the result comes out?

No, but there may be lot's of stamping of the feet to get another election arranged as the result is clearly incorrect.

 

[Astute]

You keep reading my posts, making a whole host of assumptions and then throwing an angry word salad at me.

You make some good points but you’re all over the place.

The point I made is that the Brexit party cannot action their single policy from the European Parliament. This is a fact. That does not mean I do not understand the message it sends.

I also do not expect to remain, only that the debate isn’t completely controlled by people shouting the loudest which is why I responded to your point on that.


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I am not all over the place.

It would send out a big message. Agreed?

Would those who hold the power listen to the big message? I say yes. Agreed? If so yes they can't action it themselves but they would have a big influence. So yes it would make a big difference.

 

[Astute]

Question:

Are we going to need some more tissues on here when the result comes out?

It will just change from not going to happen to it won't make any difference. And then remain will be said to still have the majority as this Brexit party won't get over 50%.

Same old story.

 

[djr8369]

I am not all over the place.

It would send out a big message. Agreed?

Would those who hold the power listen to the big message? I say yes. Agreed? If so yes they can't action it themselves but they would have a big influence. So yes it would make a big difference.

Yes it will make a difference.


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[Astute]

Yes it will make a difference.


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Thanks. So we agree.

 

[djr8369]

Thanks. So we agree.

Yes. Not sure why you were arguing when what I said was they can’t action Brexit. Farage is all about controlling the narrative rather than action.


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[Astute]

Yes. Not sure why you were arguing when what I said was they can’t action Brexit. Farage is all about controlling the narrative rather than action.


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Because you originally made it sound as though it would make no difference. But if this Brexit party gets twice the amount of votes than any other party it will put a lot of pressure on here and in the EU.

 

[djr8369]

Because you originally made it sound as though it would make no difference. But if this Brexit party gets twice the amount of votes than any other party it will put a lot of pressure on here and in the EU.

It will but overall the ‘no deal’ Brexit party voters are still in the minority even if they have the largest share of the parties. No doubt they’ll make the most of it though.

Frustrating as the whole no deal scenario has been manufactured since the referendum and no people seem convinced it’s what they always wanted.


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[SIR ERNIE]

the whole no deal scenario has been manufactured since the referendum

Wrong. It’s the deal scenario that’s been manufactured since the referendum.

The word ‘Deal’ wasn’t on the ballot paper, only Remain in the EU or Leave the EU.

 

[djr8369]

Wrong. It’s the deal scenario that’s been manufactured since the referendum.

No, not wrong. Don’t make shit up. The word ‘Deal’ wasn’t on the ballot paper, only Remain in the EU or Leave the EU.

Every leave campaigner said we’d get a deal and then leave. Nobody mentioned no deal.

The absence of information on the ballot paper doesn’t help your argument.


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[Grendel]

It will but overall the ‘no deal’ Brexit party voters are still in the minority even if they have the largest share of the parties. No doubt they’ll make the most of it though.

Frustrating as the whole no deal scenario has been manufactured since the referendum and no people seem convinced it’s what they always wanted.


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Plenty of conservatives want no deal as well and some labour areas definitely want it

 

[djr8369]

Plenty of conservatives want no deal as well and some labour areas definitely want it

Yes plenty want it, maybe a third? Many want a soft Brexit, many want to remain. The only plausible compromise seems to be soft Brexit.



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