The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (130 Viewers)

[Grendel]

Still not answered the question on whether you personally leave your doors and windows open on your own house have you.

And don't give me some crap about "well we have to since we have freedom of movement". Proportionally you're far more likely to be burgled by a Brit than a foreigner.

We are not leaving our doors and windows open. Your argument is of pure appeasement and comparing terrorists who drag mothers out of their houses with children screaming and blow their brains out on a deserted beach to a petty criminal is not even worthy of a dignified answer

 

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[SkyblueBazza]

No, I’m saying the process that you’re saying will happen as business adjusts that you’ve said happens anyway happens slowly in normal capitalism but as you’ve said yourself will happen quickly in a no deal scenario.

Nice attempt to try and twist things though.


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Nothing twisted. The slow drain on the UK economy to the wider EU seems, from you argument, to be perfectly acceptable.

A quick Brexit shit hit fan might well lead to instant start to tidy up.

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[SkyblueBazza]

What on Earth are you talking about?


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Read it, think about it & your comment that I am responding to...perhaps you will find it falls into place for you.

In a nutshell you were trying to be facetious- so yes...I twisted that one around

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[SkyblueBazza]

I'm saying the arguments put forward at the time were those of positivity, opportunity and prosperity. What they actually got was quite different.

Just as it will be when we leave.

Which agrees with the point I have repeatedly made. Average man in the street...Brexit=pretty minor changes overall. Very rich=difficulties for years if we don't get it right. Poor=business as usual

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[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

We are not leaving our doors and windows open. Your argument is of pure appeasement and comparing terrorists who drag mothers out of their houses with children screaming and blow their brains out on a deserted beach to a petty criminal is not even worthy of a dignified answer

It's in no way appeasement - it's prudence in accepting these people unfortunately exist and will use any excuse to carry out their cowardly acts and that needs to be part of the thinking because people's lives are potentially at stake. Any such atrocities that occur from either side (and let's face it since Brexit sectarian violence has been on the increase) should not be tolerated and be treated harshly and to the full extent of the law. That's hardly appeasement.

So why aren't you leaving your doors and windows open? You should think positive and assume that 99.9% of people won't jump in your house and nick your stuff. Or is it because of that 0.1% that you do. Aren't you just surrendering to the criminals, saying they've won the battle and the best we can do is try to deter them by getting locks and alarms?

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

Which agrees with the point I have repeatedly made. Average man in the street...Brexit=pretty minor changes overall. Very rich=difficulties for years if we don't get it right. Poor=business as usual

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So you're admitting that the Leave campaign was talking bollocks about everything being so much better when we leave because, as you put it, "poor = business as usual" and those remainers who said it'd be same shit, different boss were actually not being negative but just stating the realistic outcome of the process?

Besides those very rich have already started to make preparations and protecting themselves from the problems, like JRM. In fact, the suspension of Brexit (which the ERG were instrumental in) is advantageous to them because it gives them more time to get all their affairs in order so they're not impacted by it.

 

[Astute]

At best it's nothing like what YOU THINK I said. Unless you're a mind-reader out of the two of us I ought to know what argument I was making better.

Less chance of war - positivity
Open markets - opportunity and prosperity
Increased co-operation on crime - positivity through reduced opportunities for criminal enterprise
Science - opportunity and positivity.

For starters you started your post of with 'When we joined the EU....'

We were told when we joined the common market that it was about making it easier to trade with each other. That was about it.

Or would you like to show some evidence of what you keep saying instead of just repeating wrong information.

 

[djr8369]

Nothing twisted. The slow drain on the UK economy to the wider EU seems, from you argument, to be perfectly acceptable.

A quick Brexit shit hit fan might well lead to instant start to tidy up.

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Yes you’ve completely twisted the point I was making.

I’m not saying it’s acceptable. I’m saying an economy can withstand a slow adjustment whereas you’re saying a sudden adjustment won’t be a problem after I suggested it would create a shock.

You’re trying to argue that a slow drain to the EU is bad but a sudden drain, possibly to the entire world, won’t be a problem. Gold medal in mental gymnastics.


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[Brighton Sky Blue]

One positive of Brexit is that the government is not going to be able to blame the EU for its woes.

The most deprived areas of the country and its people are the last thing on the minds of the likes of Johnson, Patel, Rees Mogg etc

Immigrants will be next, ones from 'Bongo Bongo Land' as a UKIP politician once put it

 

[Astute]

Yes you’ve completely twisted the point I was making.

I’m not saying it’s acceptable. I’m saying an economy can withstand a slow adjustment whereas you’re saying a sudden adjustment won’t be a problem after I suggested it would create a shock.

You’re trying to argue that a slow drain to the EU is bad but a sudden drain, possibly to the entire world, won’t be a problem. Gold medal in mental gymnastics.


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There won't be a sudden adjustment. This is one of the horror stories peddled by people who want to spread bullshit or those who don't know what they are talking about.

Which one are you?

 

[SkyblueBazza]

So you're admitting that the Leave campaign was talking bollocks about everything being so much better when we leave because, as you put it, "poor = business as usual" and those remainers who said it'd be same shit, different boss were actually not being negative but just stating the realistic outcome of the process?

Besides those very rich have already started to make preparations and protecting themselves from the problems, like JRM. In fact, the suspension of Brexit (which the ERG were instrumental in) is advantageous to them because it gives them more time to get all their affairs in order so they're not impacted by it.

Not everything either side was true, nor was everything bollocks. Said that ad-nausea so there is nothing to 'admit' on my part.
Everyone is stating an opinion about their own perceived realistic outcome. Not every opinion is negative. Some of the most frequent remain obsessed are actually just negative in virtually every post. Nobody in Gov't really knows how this will allow out - why would any of us have a better understanding?
You only know about what preparations 'those very rich are making that have been speculated or reported in the media. If they are - so what? Some people have been stocking up on certain produce they believe will be in short supply post Brexit. Criticising them too???

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[SkyblueBazza]

Yes you’ve completely twisted the point I was making.

I’m not saying it’s acceptable. I’m saying an economy can withstand a slow adjustment whereas you’re saying a sudden adjustment won’t be a problem after I suggested it would create a shock.

You’re trying to argue that a slow drain to the EU is bad but a sudden drain, possibly to the entire world, won’t be a problem. Gold medal in mental gymnastics.


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Why would the rest of the World be draining us? They appear to be forging trade deals with us

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[shmmeee]

Not everything either side was true, nor was everything bollocks. Said that ad-nausea so there is nothing to 'admit' on my part.
Everyone is stating an opinion about their own perceived realistic outcome. Not every opinion is negative. Some of the most frequent remain obsessed are actually just negative in virtually every post. Nobody in Gov't really knows how this will allow out - why would any of us have a better understanding?
You only know about what preparations 'those very rich are making that have been speculated or reported in the media. If they are - so what? Some people have been stocking up on certain produce they believe will be in short supply post Brexit. Criticising them too???

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The rich are moving their cash around to make bank from the fall of the UK, and the poor are stocking up on bog roll and you’re asking why they aren’t treated the same. You couldn’t make it up.

And no, the level of disinformation isn’t even close for this to be a six of one half a dozen of the other situation. More like 2 of one and a bakers dozen of the other.

 

[Sick Boy]

Why would the rest of the World be draining us? They appear to be forging trade deals with us

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You are either incredibly naive or clueless, or mostly likely, both.

 

[Astute]

The rich are moving their cash around to make bank from the fall of the UK, and the poor are stocking up on bog roll and you’re asking why they aren’t treated the same. You couldn’t make it up.

And no, the level of disinformation isn’t even close for this to be a six of one half a dozen of the other situation. More like 2 of one and a bakers dozen of the other.

And the bakers dozen depends on which side most on here see it from.

 

[Astute]

You are either incredibly naive or clueless, or mostly likely, both.

Would you like to explain why those countries allowed to make trade deals with us won't want to?

It is just like those so called cliff edge doomsday sayers. The EU said nothing would change for at least 2 years after us leaving. They say it is to protect their remaining members. Are you going to tell me that there is no chance of sorting out a trade deal in this time?

Or would you like to explain how they don't want everything to change the day we leave to protect their remaining members but they will want it ti change afterwards?

These questions are always ignored by certain people on here. It doesn't go with what they preach. It is like when you said to me that whole regions around the EU won't be badly affected. They would be if your predictions are correct. But you only push one side across constantly.

The whole debacle is shit. It has split my family up from myself. Now all phone companies have changed their terms and conditions on their 'fair usage policies'. I have been waiting for someone to blame it on Brexit. But it is greed. After Brexit it will get worse. Ex pats have used 02 for years. Now they are left with worthless contracts. I am with EE and have been for over 20 years. In another 2 weeks they will charge 70p a minute to accept a call and £2.70 a minute to make a call if you spend 2 months out of 4 out of the country. You get it back if you spend 2 months back in the UK. And this is before Brexit. But I guarantee you that it will be blamed on Brexit.

 

[djr8369]

Why would the rest of the World be draining us? They appear to be forging trade deals with us

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If you’re worried about cheaper labour in EU countries what do you think is going to happen if there are free trade deals with the likes of China and India?


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[djr8369]

There won't be a sudden adjustment. This is one of the horror stories peddled by people who want to spread bullshit or those who don't know what they are talking about.

Which one are you?

How won’t there be a sudden adjustment? What do you think will happen of overnight we move onto WTO tariff structures?



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[djr8369]

Read it, think about it & your comment that I am responding to...perhaps you will find it falls into place for you.

In a nutshell you were trying to be facetious- so yes...I twisted that one around

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I’ve read it again and it still makes no sense. You seem to be trying to draw a link to the troubles so maybe you’ve confused me with another poster who was talking about that.


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[Sick Boy]

Would you like to explain why those countries allowed to make trade deals with us won't want to?

It is just like those so called cliff edge doomsday sayers. The EU said nothing would change for at least 2 years after us leaving. They say it is to protect their remaining members. Are you going to tell me that there is no chance of sorting out a trade deal in this time?

Or would you like to explain how they don't want everything to change the day we leave to protect their remaining members but they will want it ti change afterwards?

These questions are always ignored by certain people on here. It doesn't go with what they preach. It is like when you said to me that whole regions around the EU won't be badly affected. They would be if your predictions are correct. But you only push one side across constantly.

The whole debacle is shit. It has split my family up from myself. Now all phone companies have changed their terms and conditions on their 'fair usage policies'. I have been waiting for someone to blame it on Brexit. But it is greed. After Brexit it will get worse. Ex pats have used 02 for years. Now they are left with worthless contracts. I am with EE and have been for over 20 years. In another 2 weeks they will charge 70p a minute to accept a call and £2.70 a minute to make a call if you spend 2 months out of 4 out of the country. You get it back if you spend 2 months back in the UK. And this is before Brexit. But I guarantee you that it will be blamed on Brexit.

If you genuinely think that Trump and America are not going to be looking to take advantage of the UK’s status, then I don’t know what to say. Then there are the likes of India and China, who again are going to most certainly calling the shots.

They know that the UK is going to be in a position and weakness, especially if there is no deal. This is going to be the same for any other powerful country, they are going to be calling the shots during these negotiations. If you think the EU are hard nosed then I think you’ll be in for a shock.

For your problem with SIM cards, yes that is pure greed but the UK MNOs are a rip off. I pay €10 for unlimited calls, texts and 25GB phone data.

Get yourself a French one as well and use that for receiving calls and for when you’re over there and turn off the UK one.

 

[Astute]

How won’t there be a sudden adjustment? What do you think will happen of overnight we move onto WTO tariff structures?



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Because the EU said nothing would change at the start so not to hit those still in the EU hard. Or are you calling Barnier a liar?

 

[Astute]

If you genuinely think that Trump and America are not going to be looking to take advantage of the UK’s status, then I don’t know what to say. Then there are the likes of India and China, who again are going to most certainly calling the shots.

They know that the UK is going to be in a position and weakness, especially if there is no deal. This is going to be the same for any other powerful country, they are going to be calling the shots during these negotiations. If you think the EU are hard nosed then I think you’ll be in for a shock.

For your problem with SIM cards, yes that is pure greed but the UK MNOs are a rip off. I pay €10 for unlimited calls, texts and 25GB phone data.

Get yourself a French one as well and use that for receiving calls and for when you’re over there and turn off the UK one.

And here tou go again making up a story as in what I am supposed to have said.

So where did I even mention the USA or Trump? But whilst on the subject the USA is our biggest export above any country in the EU. And I am still sure that a deal would be agreed with the EU before the first two years are up. Yes they hold all the cards because of the ineptitude of those previously involved. But we are too much of a big market to totally ignore. But a deal might not be done for ages after. Anyone who says they know what will happen is lying.

We will be using Skype. Waiting until we see if we leave at the end of October or not before deciding what to do with phones.

 

[Sick Boy]

And here tou go again making up a story as in what I am supposed to have said.

So where did I even mention the USA or Trump? But whilst on the subject the USA is our biggest export above any country in the EU. And I am still sure that a deal would be agreed with the EU before the first two years are up. Yes they hold all the cards because of the ineptitude of those previously involved. But we are too much of a big market to totally ignore. But a deal might not be done for ages after. Anyone who says they know what will happen is lying.

We will be using Skype. Waiting until we see if we leave at the end of October or not before deciding what to do with phones.

Before the first 2 years of what are up?

 

[Grendel]

Johnson is going to meet the main EU players in the next two weeks

It’s obvious he wants to remove the backstop and with that arrangement (with no doubt a 3 year transition) he would present back to parliament

If labour and the undems still say no they’ve concurred as hard Brexit is a price worth paying as they will be told that’s the alternative

 

[djr8369]

Because the EU said nothing would change at the start so not to hit those still in the EU hard. Or are you calling Barnier a liar?

That’s assuming there’s a transition period and we don’t follow either of the plans from leavers to go straight onto WTO tariffs or blanket zero tariffs.


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[Sick Boy]

Johnson is going to meet the main EU players in the next two weeks

It’s obvious he wants to remove the backstop and with that arrangement (with no doubt a 3 year transition) he would present back to parliament

If labour and the undems still say no they’ve concurred as hard Brexit is a price worth paying as they will be told that’s the alternative

And what would his alternative be to the backstop? They’re not just going to remove it because he wants them to.

 

[Grendel]

And what would his alternative be to the backstop? They’re not just going to remove it because he wants them to.

The argument will be a delay allows for a technology system

Again though if they reject Mr Johnson can say he tried and the EU will not budge when he was prepared to sign up to all the other terms

The suggestion in most euro press articles is that he is still bluffing. I think they will soon realise he is not. Varadker needs to get behind Johnson or his country will be facing economic catastrophy

 

[djr8369]

And here tou go again making up a story as in what I am supposed to have said.

So where did I even mention the USA or Trump?.

He’s not saying you did he’s using it as an example of a country looking for a trade deal and how that might play out.




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[djr8369]

The argument will be a delay allows for a technology system

In reality does that argument hold any water? If a technological solution can be set up the backstop issue is solved and there’s no need to time limit it.



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[Sick Boy]

The argument will be a delay allows for a technology system

Again though if they reject Mr Johnson can say he tried and the EU will not budge when he was prepared to sign up to all the other terms

The suggestion in most euro press articles is that he is still bluffing. I think they will soon realise he is not. Varadker needs to get behind Johnson or his country will be facing economic catastrophy

They’re only going to accept it if the UK can identify a technological solution and show how it would be ready in 3 years. Based on Home Office documents, apparently a solution is around a decade away.

The chances of Johnson being able to do this are slim to zero and LV would be a fool to get behind Johnson when there’s clearly no evidence that a technological solution would be ready within 3 years.

 

[Grendel]

In reality does that argument hold any water? If a technological solution can be set up the backstop issue is solved and there’s no need to time limit it.



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The systems required would take significant time and co operation - the Eu don’t want it

Can advanced technologies solve the Irish border problem? | Coffee House

 

[Sick Boy]

The systems required would take significant time and co operation - the Eu don’t want it

Can advanced technologies solve the Irish border problem? | Coffee House

And yet again it’s always someone else’s fault and never taking responsibility.

 

[Sick Boy]

The argument will be a delay allows for a technology system

Again though if they reject Mr Johnson can say he tried and the EU will not budge when he was prepared to sign up to all the other terms

The suggestion in most euro press articles is that he is still bluffing. I think they will soon realise he is not. Varadker needs to get behind Johnson or his country will be facing economic catastrophy

Oh, actually didn’t Johnson at one point vote for May’s deal?

 

[Grendel]

And yet again it’s always someone else’s fault and never taking responsibility.

In the end Varadker has a choice. He values his people or not

 

[shmmeee]

And the bakers dozen depends on which side most on here see it from.

No. This isn’t your gender studies class. Objective reality is a thing.