The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (41 Viewers)

[Kingokings204]

Not 'almost' Kingokings, they really do want them to fail.

Bear in mind that two or three on here have a strong anti-UK agenda.

One is very pro-Irish/anti anything UK.

Another is strongly pro-Germany/Merkel/EU anti-UK.

And another is pro Germany and just 'likes' anything the first two post.

Both you and I were labelled Little Englanders last week simply because we're pro-Brexit!

I love England and I love the UK and I seem to be barraged for it. I'm not a little englander and I know you're not.

We voted brexit because we believe it to be the right thing for this country. Not because of lies or hatred or little englanders but because we are adults making our own vote count. Democracy is the word.

 

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[Ian1779]

You said you are pro common sense with mart and that's great so surely you would understand Grendel's view that if someone hates the U.K. That much then leave. I don't like the Russian way of life very much so guess what I don't live there. Common sense that's all.

At what point did I or anyone else express the view that we hated the UK?

Is this how we teach tolerance and negotiation to people? By telling them that if they dare question or challenge something that they can leave?

 

[Sick Boy]

You said you are pro common sense with mart and that's great so surely you would understand Grendel's view that if someone hates the U.K. That much then leave. I don't like the Russian way of life very much so guess what I don't live there. Common sense that's all.

I haven't seen anyone say they hate the UK?

 

[SIR ERNIE]

I am pro common sense. Voting for something that you don't even know what it is, is neither pro British nor common sense.

I am waving the flag here on a major international event selling British products- even Coventry Craft Beer from Fargo.

Certainly not anti UK or Coventry.

But you wouldn't understand that.

I wouldn't understand selling British products internationally?

Tell you what mart. When you get to a position where you're selling your own branded products (UK manufactured) in more than 500 major European town centre stores (including 70 in Germany), 350 in Canada, 1,000 in the UK and 400 in the USA, then your statement would begin to have some credibility.

In the meantime I wish you well with your business. Sincerely.

 

[clint van damme]

Not 'almost' Kingokings, they really do want them to fail.

Bear in mind that two or three on here have a strong anti-UK agenda.

One is very pro-Irish/anti anything UK.

Another is strongly pro-Germany/Merkel/EU anti-UK.

And another is pro Germany and just 'likes' anything the first two post.

Both you and I were labelled Little Englanders last week simply because we're pro-Brexit!

the problem is, which you fail to see, is that there are people leading the UK in those negotiations who don't give a fuck about this country or the vast majority of it's people.
All there interested in is how far up the greasy pole they can get.

 

[martcov]

I wouldn't understand selling British products internationally?

Tell you what mart. When you get to a position where you're selling your own branded products (UK manufactured) in more than 500 major European town centre stores (including 70 in Germany), 350 in Canada, 1,000 in the UK and 400 in the USA, then your statement would begin to have some credibility.

In the meantime I wish you well with your business. Sincerely.

I meant you wouldn't understand being pro EU and not anti U.K.. but fair play to you.

 

[martcov]

You said you are pro common sense with mart and that's great so surely you would understand Grendel's view that if someone hates the U.K. That much then leave. I don't like the Russian way of life very much so guess what I don't live there. Common sense that's all.

Who hates the U.K. here? Btw I have left, but for other reasons.

 

[chiefdave]

After months of bullshitting on what will happen the UK agrees to structure negotiations exactly the way the EU has been proposing on day one. You couldn't make it up.

We haven't even started and they've already got our pants down.:banghead:

You really are utterly clueless aren't you.

What makes them clueless? Seems to reflect what is being reported.

The EU's chief negotiator said there would be "substantial" consequences from Brexit after the first round of talks with the UK.

Michel Barnier said he was "not in the frame of mind to make concessions or ask for concessions".

UK Brexit Secretary David Davis said talks got off to a "promising start".

The UK appears to have conceded to the EU's preferred order for the talks which will mean trade negotiations do not begin immediately.

The UK had wanted talks on its future relationship with the EU to be considered from the outset, but Mr Barnier said this would only happen once the European Council decided "sufficient progress has been made" on the other issues.

Mr Davis - who had predicted this would be the "row of the summer" - denied suggestions the agreed timetable showed Britain's "weakness" and insisted it was "completely consistent" with the government's aim of parallel trade and exit talks.

"It's not when it starts it's how it finishes that matters," he said.

Asked whether he had made any concessions to the UK in return, Mr Barnier said the UK had decided to leave the EU - not the other way around, and each side had to "assume our responsibility and the consequences of our decisions".

"I am not in a frame of mind to make concessions, or ask for concessions," he said.

 

[Grendel]

That's Brexiteer talk. It is possible to love your country and to wish It to be well managed and a constructive EU partner. To accept the result of an ill informed population voting yes or no on the most complicated decision in a life time without question doesn't make you a better citizen. In fact it makes you more like a sheep.

More evidence of national socialism. Herr Merkle has brainwashed you

 

[martcov]

More evidence of national socialism. Herr Merkle has brainwashed you

You have gender recognition and spelling problems. And politics and modern history obviously aren't your strong points....

 

[Grendel]

You have gender recognition and spelling problems. And politics and modern history obviously aren't your strong points....

They clearly are which is why you have refused to continue the debate on the Tim Farron thread...

 

[martcov]

They clearly are which is why you have refused to continue the debate on the Tim Farron thread...

I am not particularly interested in Tim Fallon and I did tell you that I had consumed a few pints and was going to duck questions.

 

[martcov]

They clearly are which is why you have refused to continue the debate on the Tim Farron thread...

Plus ...... National Socialism - which you accuse me of - has more to do with selfish nationalism than socialism and some Brexiteers fit the description of National Socialists. Most though are what Hitler and co really were... after purging the party of socialist elements such as Gregor Strasser.... that is to say National Conservatives.

The rhetoric of making countries "great again" is a copy of 1920s 30s German nationalism. Victimhood.

You only have to look at the coalition- or whatever it is - with the crackpot DUP to see where this is going. Chaos.

 

[SkyblueBazza]

The two are intertwined.

Only if negotiators use them as bargaining tools are they intertwined & therefore become restrictive or preconditions...or in YOUR mind?!

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[SkyblueBazza]

You can't leave the EU and stay in the single market. If you keep the single market you keep freedom of movement and therefore I believe we will come out of the single market but have access to it.

If we don't come out of the single market as your question and therefore freedom of movement Ukip or someone will have their best days ahead. It simply won't wash.

Who said we can't? If THEY want/need to trade with us more than we want/need to trade with them...anything is possible.
Do you really think the German car industry wants restrictive barriers? The Spanish barriers to tourism? French tourism & wine?
They all have their own agendas to retain access to a 60m market population. Britain is much more attractive as a market than 2/3 of the EU market - NOW is probably the best time to exit realistically.

And I was a remain voter!

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[SkyblueBazza]

Exactly this. Norway said no to the eu in a referendum but they are tied into agreements which means they have to accept the single market rules. That's not our aim.

We will leave the single market and customs union.

Norway have nothing like the clout of Britain

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[SkyblueBazza]

This morning talks defining the terms of Brexit have started.
Never in recent times has this country been systematically torn apart by
a bunch of swivel eyed representing the 1% and their own lunatic take that
Britannia will once again 'rule the waves' This is a tragedy for Britain, we are being further
marginalised as living standards for the many fall and basic rights increasingly threatened by an elite
who systematically reduce services to the point that entire communities are being burnt in their beds.
How is it that so many, who will suffer most from this fiasco can have been duped so spectacularly?

Agreed...if you look with blinkers on.

There are many negatives...but there are many positives if we get the right agreement

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[SkyblueBazza]

Yes. That is basically it. No more unnecessary regulations from Eurocrats. Bye bye Johnny Foreigner. We ruled the waves. We fought the Germans. The French are puppets of the EU by voting Macron - just as in Vichy France.

( I read this about France in the comments in the Mail online today ).

It is incredible. Regulations and bureaucrats are there - mostly- for good reasons. When there are less controls - whether EU or not - things like Grenfell happen. Clowns like BoJo mocked EU regulations... creating a feeling that by doing away with regulations we are taking control of our country.

"We" certainly aren't. People like Rydon ignore ( apparently ) regulations because if they can get away with it they will.

Now we are going to spend years going through EU regulations- seeing which we can do away with and which we can write into UK law.

What a load of crap. We will have to keep most of them or risk things like the fire.

Remain and reform was the only option to vote for, but people have been blatantly conned.

Now that the negotiations have started - late because of the U.K. - we will actually be able to see what the leavers voted for. Enjoy.

Have faith. I truly believe that on time - people power WILL win through

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[SkyblueBazza]

I can't believe we've started negotiations today and there has been no indication as to what our aims are/what sort of future relationship we want. It looks as though Europe is in the driving seat and we haven't got a clue.

Does your (if you work for a business) management team tell you their negotiating stance for a potential new contract - or even give any inkling of who or what they are negotiating - EVER???
No, they tell you once they have the signature on the dotted line!

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[SkyblueBazza]

We haven't even started and they've already got our pants down.:banghead:

Longer term I suspect we will come out of this far better than any of us currently think.

I am happy for people to throw that back at me in 15yrs time

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[SkyblueBazza]

It's almost as if people want these negotiations to fail for us. Bizarre.

That's because of imbedded Labour/Tory bias

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[SkyblueBazza]

You're talking shit....

Best outcome for the UK and best outcome for the Tory party clearly are not the same thing.

I rest my case

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[SkyblueBazza]

That's Brexiteer talk. It is possible to love your country and to wish It to be well managed and a constructive EU partner. To accept the result of an ill informed population voting yes or no on the most complicated decision in a life time without question doesn't make you a better citizen. In fact it makes you more like a sheep.

Mart...we ARE leaving the EU.
The sooner ypu get used to it, the sooner you will have a happier life. The alternative is to stress out & waste your energy.

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[SkyblueBazza]

I haven't seen anyone say they hate the UK?

I think he means that the way some of the arguments are made on here suggest people appear to want Brexit (which WILL happen now) to pan out as a complete failure & humiliation for the country as a whole...so they can slate the Tory's.

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[SkyblueBazza]

I wouldn't understand selling British products internationally?

Tell you what mart. When you get to a position where you're selling your own branded products (UK manufactured) in more than 500 major European town centre stores (including 70 in Germany), 350 in Canada, 1,000 in the UK and 400 in the USA, then your statement would begin to have some credibility.

In the meantime I wish you well with your business. Sincerely.

That scenario would be largely because of focus. Regulations have meant the businesses have focused on doing business in the EU for the last 40-50yrs. How much business globally have we missed during that time??? Especially small/medium ones that have not had the resources to access markets where the return is bigger than that available in the EU alone?

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[SkyblueBazza]

the problem is, which you fail to see, is that there are people leading the UK in those negotiations who don't give a fuck about this country or the vast majority of it's people.
All there interested in is how far up the greasy pole they can get.

True perhaps...but they are given a specific remit. If they fail to produce...it looks bad on their CV too...so they had best make hay while the sun shines. Success breeds success as they will well know

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[SkyblueBazza]

Who hates the U.K. here? Btw I have left, but for other reasons.

Sorry to sound callous but I think if you have only arms length connection to the UK - you lose your say!

Personally, those awful (in some eyes - not necessarily mine) migrants that live, work & want a better lifestyle here (5yrs?) should have more say than emigrants.

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[SkyblueBazza]

That's Brexiteer talk. It is possible to love your country and to wish It to be well managed and a constructive EU partner. To accept the result of an ill informed population voting yes or no on the most complicated decision in a life time without question doesn't make you a better citizen. In fact it makes you more like a sheep.

That kinds hits the nail on the head!
What make YOU think that YOU were better informed?

The remains (including myself) were as misinformed as the leavers.

Imo you shot yourself down in flames there!

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[martcov]

Who said we can't? If THEY want/need to trade with us more than we want/need to trade with them...anything is possible.
Do you really think the German car industry wants restrictive barriers? The Spanish barriers to tourism? French tourism & wine?
They all have their own agendas to retain access to a 60m market population. Britain is much more attractive as a market than 2/3 of the EU market - NOW is probably the best time to exit realistically.

And I was a remain voter!

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Their population is 440 million. I think we need them more than they need us. Whether or not Britain is more attractive now, this is a one off decision and may affect our development for generations. We have to consider future generations.

 

[martcov]

That kinds hits the nail on the head!
What make YOU think that YOU were better informed?

The remains (including myself) were as misinformed as the leavers.

Imo you shot yourself down in flames there!

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The decision was to leave the status quo. You need good arguments to leave something we are in and aim for the unknown. The arguments and the lies wer disgusting on both sides, but leave now has to take responsibility for their lies. Remain doesn't as we will never know for sure what might have been if we stayed, and 'project fear' could still happen and prove to be at least partly true.

We do know that Brexit will be harder than Farage and co said it would be, and we do know that the NHS will not be receiving 350 million a week. That has been confirmed by leading leavers. So leave is already in trouble and has explaining to do.

 

[martcov]

Sorry to sound callous but I think if you have only arms length connection to the UK - you lose your say!

Personally, those awful (in some eyes - not necessarily mine) migrants that live, work & want a better lifestyle here (5yrs?) should have more say than emigrants.

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So you are for EU citizens voting in UK elections? Me too. So long as I have the same rights in the EU country where I live. I think that is fair enough. You are not allowed to cast votes in 2 EU countries, so I would opt for voting in Germany if allowed to. At present I can only vote in local elections here.

 

[martcov]

I think he means that the way some of the arguments are made on here suggest people appear to want Brexit (which WILL happen now) to pan out as a complete failure & humiliation for the country as a whole...so they can slate the Tory's.

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The Brexit saga up until now is panning out as a complete failure and humiliation for the country as a whole. There is no policy. It was to be hard Brexit with a 'strong and stable' conservative majority. That's off the table in effect. The government could fall at any time. It is susceptible to ressure from it's own back benchers - hard or soft Brexiteers.

Yes the tories are at fault from calling a referendum, thinking they would win it, and for calling an election and thinking that they would win by a landslide.

Tossers got Brexit 1 and 2 wrong.

Yes they will get deservedly slated and yes I will slate the Brexiteers along with the Tories for voting us into this mess.

 

[martcov]

Mart...we ARE leaving the EU.
The sooner ypu get used to it, the sooner you will have a happier life. The alternative is to stress out & waste your energy.

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Theoretically we are leaving, but there is a long way to go. The government is already in dissaray and could be toppled by it's own back benchers at any time. I am having a happy life - at the moment, but I am worried that this will go pear shaped. I have no confidence in the UK government.

If they screw up, it could be detrimental to me. I sell British goods - as well as others. If they damage the EU through some trade war, or just get a deal which encourages others to break away, then I may see the economy in Germany being negatively effected.

The whole thing is annoying. No-one can say what economic benefits we will gain when by leaving.

Lots of pie in the sky. All we need now is for May to tell us she has a great result which she will release in 3 weeks.

 

[dadgad]

Brexit is already a disaster, the country is more divided than since the Civil War and a lame duck govt is pinning its survival on a bunch of homophobic creationist bigots.
Since 2015 we have become a laughing stock throughout the world looking to set up two year trade deals that usually take seven. We have to train thousands of additional civil service posts while Whitehall is already at breaking point. All because that fop eared fool Cameron had to appease fifty Tory zealots. But Theresa has actually made him appear a genius.

 

[Kingokings204]

I haven't seen anyone say they hate the UK?

No you're quite right no one has said it but your words seem to suggest a hate towards the U.K. Just my opinion. Maybe it's a hate towards the tories vented in another way.