The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (7 Viewers)

[wingy]

Looks like everyone is pushing money in the direction of the DUP.

 

---

[martcov]

Not seen one poster say Britannia should rule the waves. That's odd. We should be proud of being British and recognize our own importance. People want co operation and joint efforts on global warming and trade but they don't want an eu nation with a flag and an anthem and an army.

Not seen one poster saying they want an EU nation. There is an EU flag... it flies next to the country's flag. There is an anthem which is used at EU events. There is no EU nation and can never be a true one ( in the sense of France or Scotland because of the sheer number of national identities in the EU ). What there could be, is a federal state with it's own army etc. If everyone agrees to it. At the moment a very remote situation.

The UK is what it says, a United Kingdom.... The EU could become a federal state - which is what the U.K. would be if there were no kingdoms or a principality or province involved. Where's the problem? A single currency and tax system at federal government level, army etc. as in the U.K... You accept that. If it happened it would be consensual anyway and there wouldn't be a despotic ruler. Just a federal government- which would be a bit fairer than how the UK is ruled. We don't even have an English National Assembly. I am proud of being English, but I don't see you sticking up for me.... why is nationality important for you when you are slagging off the EU, but you never mention England as a nation?

You don't want the EU. That's about it, but there are a majority- according to some polls - who wouldn't vote leave now having seen what a mess Brexit actually is. Who knows what is around the corner, but we don't appear to be sailing off into the sunset.

 

[skybluetony176]

Did anyone catch panorama last night? Very interesting view on what brexit could and couldn't mean for British farmers and the food industry as a whole.

I was also reading about waste water being used in developing countries for farming irrigation in developing countries the other day with the water being untreated so containing human and industrial waste. One area was west Africa which is somewhere where it's being suggested we could important cheap fruit and veg from once we leave the EU.

 

[Grendel]

I said that I have doubts about Corbyn a few posts ago. If you think that the Brexit vision of Corbyn is akin to Fox and Davis, then I don't know what else to say.

What's the difference then?

 

[Astute]

The Italians have made similar statements which contradict the ones that were being made on here about the EU having to bend over because of Britain's power.

The Italians have had enough of people using them to get into Europe. The Austrians are close to closing borders with them. Yet the Italians are happy?

 

[Astute]

Did anyone catch panorama last night? Very interesting view on what brexit could and couldn't mean for British farmers and the food industry as a whole.

I was also reading about waste water being used in developing countries for farming irrigation in developing countries the other day with the water being untreated so containing human and industrial waste. One area was west Africa which is somewhere where it's being suggested we could important cheap fruit and veg from once we leave the EU.

As in food is 20% more expensive because of the EU?

 

[Astute]

The import of German cars isn't a binary situation. Its not going to be situation where imports are banned. At worst the price will increase due to import tariffs. That will impact them but only by leading to a decrease in sales, the way some people are talking you'd think they'll never sell a car here again.

We are their best market. Do you think we will be if tariffs of 20% are added? So a 50k car becomes 60k?

You talk as though they are happy for it to happen. They will be worried. But it is all about posturing on all sides. Nobody wants high tariffs. The EU is trying what they can to make us stay. They know that they will have a massive problem making up the shortfall of the billions we put in each year.

 

[Sick Boy]

The Italians have had enough of people using them to get into Europe. The Austrians are close to closing borders with them. Yet the Italians are happy?

Believe it or not, the majority are pro-EU.

The 5 Star Movement want to leave the Euro (not the EU) but have shown themselves to be incompetent. Then there is the openly fascist La Lega Nord, to be fair they want to leave the EU.

Every person that I have spoken to about it in the 5 times I've been over since last June have thought the country has made a huge mistake. There was one who going on about how great it was, but was a Lega voter.

 

[Sick Boy]

What's the difference then?

Yes, I can really see Corbyn pushing for more neoliberalism and a bonfire of rights and regulations.

 

[Astute]

Are we bigger than the rest of the EU market combined (genuine question)?

We buy a lot more from the EU than they buy from us. So why would they want large tariffs?

 

[Astute]

Except we're not. We're the highest by volume but not profit. That's the US. We're also likely to be relegated to third by China before too long as it's an emerging market for the German car manufacturers.

We are in talks with the USA and China on exports already. But we are not allowed to finalise anything until we have left the EU. They are much bigger markets than the EU.

 

[Sick Boy]

We buy a lot more from the EU than they buy from us. So why would they want large tariffs?

In an ideal world they won't do, but that doesn't mean that they are about to give in to Britiain's demands.

 

[Sick Boy]

We are in talks with the USA and China on exports already. But we are not allowed to finalise anything until we have left the EU. They are much bigger markets than the EU.

...and in doing so we are negotiating from a position of weaknees. Goodbye to the NHS and hello to previously banned foods!

 

[Astute]

Believe it or not, the majority are pro-EU.

The 5 Star Movement want to leave the Euro (not the EU) but have shown themselves to be incompetent. Then there is the openly fascist La Lega Nord, to be fair they want to leave the EU.

Every person that I have spoken to about it in the 5 times I've been over since last June have thought the country has made a huge mistake. There was one who going on about how great it was, but was a Lega voter.

The Euro has made Italy weak. They would be better off without it. But they are in too deep now.

Their unemployment rate has been over 11% for ages. The unemployed amount has just gone up by another 44,000. The employed has just gone down by 51,000. Those under 25 and looking for work has just gone up to 37%. And the total in work has gone down to 57.7%....one of the lowest in the EU.

At least the German economy is doing well.

 

[Astute]

In an ideal world they won't do, but that doesn't mean that they are about to give in to Britiain's demands.

Nobody knows what will happen. It is down to the gravy trainers and how much they are prepared to hurt the people that they are supposed to work for.

 

[Astute]

...and in doing so we are negotiating from a position of weaknees. Goodbye to the NHS and hello to previously banned foods!

So how did you come to this conclusion?

 

[chiefdave]

We are their best market. Do you think we will be if tariffs of 20% are added? So a 50k car becomes 60k?

Well first off if a £50K car becomes £60K sales won't drop to zero. There is an unknown in how a price rise will affect things.

But its not that straightforward. The German manufacturer is not selling direct to the purchaser, they are selling to a dealer who are most likely a franchise. So lets say the dealer currently buys that car for £40K. A 20% import tariff is added. Who do you think will be paying that the German manufacturer or the British dealership? So the price to the dealer rises to £48K. Does he put the price up to £58K to make up for the import tariff or does he have to swallow the extra cost in order to remain competitive with cars coming in from non-EU countries?

 

[chiefdave]

Take a listen to this call to LBC. Its hilarious but also quite worrying as people like this get to vote!
James O'Brien Calmly Demolishes Leave Voter During Hilariously Mind-Blowing Call-In | HuffPost UK

 

[Astute]

Well first off if a £50K car becomes £60K sales won't drop to zero. There is an unknown in how a price rise will affect things.

But its not that straightforward. The German manufacturer is not selling direct to the purchaser, they are selling to a dealer who are most likely a franchise. So lets say the dealer currently buys that car for £40K. A 20% import tariff is added. Who do you think will be paying that the German manufacturer or the British dealership? So the price to the dealer rises to £48K. Does he put the price up to £58K to make up for the import tariff or does he have to swallow the extra cost in order to remain competitive with cars coming in from non-EU countries?

Do you really think that dealers make 10k per car sold?

If there is an import duty of 20% added on then there will be VAT added to it.

And who said that sales would go down to 0? But they certainly would be hit.

 

[Astute]

Take a listen to this call to LBC. Its hilarious but also quite worrying as people like this get to vote!
James O'Brien Calmly Demolishes Leave Voter During Hilariously Mind-Blowing Call-In | HuffPost UK

I'm glad that all remoaners are intelligent.

 

[Sick Boy]

The Euro has made Italy weak. They would be better off without it. But they are in too deep now.

Their unemployment rate has been over 11% for ages. The unemployed amount has just gone up by another 44,000. The employed has just gone down by 51,000. Those under 25 and looking for work has just gone up to 37%. And the total in work has gone down to 57.7%....one of the lowest in the EU.

At least the German economy is doing well.

Plenty of Italians are angry with the situation, but they are astute enough to blame decades of successive governments and corruption.

 

[jimmyhillsfanclub]

...and in doing so we are negotiating from a position of weaknees. Goodbye to the NHS and hello to previously banned foods!

Unfortunately, the NHS is up against it regardless......one of the reasons I voted leave was the EUs secretive & shady TTIP agreement which would have seen the rapid increase in privatisation within the NHS.....along with the hideous prospect of policy being driven by USA corporate law.....

....one of the serendipitous outcomes of Trumps myopic horseshit is the apparent death of the TTIP deal.

As for food quality etc......its already been proven that there are double standards within the EU "single" market.....with eastern european nations being sold branded products of lower quality but still wrapped up in the the same packaging......

....besides, over the years I've really enjoyed my mad-cow burger, horsemeat lasagne & e-coli bagged salad.....all fully endorsed by the EU standards obviously.:vomit:

 

[Sick Boy]

Unfortunately, the NHS is up against it regardless......one of the reasons I voted leave was the EUs secretive & shady TTIP agreement which would have seen the rapid increase in privatisation within the NHS.....along with the hideous prospect of policy being driven by USA corporate law.....

....one of the serendipitous outcomes of Trumps myopic horseshit is the apparent death of the TTIP deal.

As for food quality etc......its already been proven that there are double standards within the EU "single" market.....with eastern european nations being sold branded products of lower quality but still wrapped up in the the same packaging......

....besides, over the years I've really enjoyed my mad-cow burger, horsemeat lasagne & e-coli bagged salad.....all fully endorsed by the EU standards obviously.:vomit:

Any deal made with Trump is going to be TTIP on steroids. Am beginning to think that KC has hacked your account.

 

[jimmyhillsfanclub]

Any deal made with Trump is going to be TTIP on steroids. Am beginning to think that KC has hacked your account.

Ha ha. Please remember that despite not shouting as loud as others, there are many leave voters like myself who simply voted to leave the EU.......we did not vote for all the shite that followed.

I am finding it harder & harder to be positive about leaving though.........that said, I still have my doubts we will be "allowed" to leave anyway.......

As for trump, I don't think he'll be around long enough to complete many binding agreements..........fingers crossed eh

 

[Astute]

Plenty of Italians are angry with the situation, but they are astute enough to blame decades of successive governments and corruption.

Are you saying that Italy hasn't been harmed by being in the EU?

 

[Terry Gibson's perm]

Obviously when the negotiations start properly we will need to negotiate our rental charges for our share of the European buildings we have helped to pay for.

I hope that we don't put too many charges on BMW as they will have to make cut backs on them and they have already removed working indicators

 

[Sick Boy]

Are you saying that Italy hasn't been harmed by being in the EU?

You should go and visit and speak to the people in the small towns in Sicily, like Castelvetrano, Alcamo etc and ask these people about the difference that the EU has made to their lives. I'd also suggest going along to the older citizens in the country, and asking them if they'd rather return back to the insular country that embraced fascism.

 

[Astute]

Ha ha. Please remember that despite not shouting as loud as others, there are many leave voters like myself who simply voted to leave the EU.......we did not vote for all the shite that followed.

I am finding it harder & harder to be positive about leaving though.........that said, I still have my doubts we will be "allowed" to leave anyway.......

As for trump, I don't think he'll be around long enough to complete many binding agreements..........fingers crossed eh

The EU needs us as much as we need them. Most politicians are full of shit. And the higher up they get the worse they get. Just about all of them are in it for themselves and not for us.

 

[Astute]

You should go and visit and speak to the people in the small towns in Sicily, like Castelvetrano, Alcamo etc and ask these people about the difference that the EU has made to their lives. I'd also suggest going along to the older citizens in the country, and asking them if they'd rather return back to the insular country that embraced fascism.

Try asking those who live in the areas not gaining from being in the EU.

There are winners and losers. The problem is that there are more losers than winners.

 

[Sick Boy]

Try asking those who live in the areas not gaining from being in the EU.

There are winners and losers. The problem is that there are more losers than winners.

The south has suffered from poverty and a severe lack of infastructre for decades, and is very much down to corruption, aka the mafia. I presume that is another problem caused by the EU in your world.

 

[Liquid Gold]

Try asking those who live in the areas not gaining from being in the EU.

There are winners and losers. The problem is that there are more losers than winners.

But during the referendum areas of the UK that are benefiting from being in the EU were most likely to vote leave. I think the Eu has been a scapegoat for far too long with successive governments using them as a get out for problems of their own making.

Places like London who are massive contributors to the EU budget are more than happy to keep doing so.

 

[Grendel]

Yes, I can really see Corbyn pushing for more neoliberalism and a bonfire of rights and regulations.

Why did Mr Corbyn vote against the Maastricht and Lisbon treaties if that's the case then? Can you explain?

Surely they are identical as they both clearly want the uk to control its own legislative process. They may differ in the legislation they want to implement but the principal is the same.

On immigration do you support the trade union views on limiting migration into the country or is Len Mcluskey a Daily Mail reading bigot?

 

[Astute]

The south has suffered from poverty and a severe lack of infastructre for decades, and is very much down to corruption, aka the mafia. I presume that is another problem caused by the EU in your world.

And here is your problem. You only want the good things about the EU mentioned and look to blame anyone or anything else but the EU for the bad things.

The South of Italy is suffering badly from those looking for a better life. They know once in Europe they have a good chance. But thousands each year are getting killed trying to reach Italy. Now it looks like Italy will turn away those saved from drowning. I can see it where ship captains will stop saving people as they won't be able to take them to Italy. Italy can't cope with any more. The EU are not doing enough to help Italy. But they caused it by wanting open borders. Austria are about to close their borders. Switzerland are considering the same. If they all start going to France there is a good chance it will also happen there. Then what?

 

[Astute]

But during the referendum areas of the UK that are benefiting from being in the EU were most likely to vote leave. I think the Eu has been a scapegoat for far too long with successive governments using them as a get out for problems of their own making.

Places like London who are massive contributors to the EU budget are more than happy to keep doing so.

It has been said that less than 50% of people now living in London were born in this country. But there is a large amount of people not born here that have said no more.

So what has the EU been made the scapegoat for?

 

[Sick Boy]

Why did Mr Corbyn vote against the Maastricht and Lisbon treaties if that's the case then? Can you explain?

Surely they are identical as they both clearly want the uk to control its own legislative process. They may differ in the legislation they want to implement but the principal is the same.

On immigration do you support the trade union views on limiting migration into the country or is Len Mcluskey a Daily Mail reading bigot?

No, I don't agree with him and as I've said before, I'm not actually a socialist despite what you claim.