Sky Blue Pete
Well-Known Member
I still can’t believe a majority of us lot voted for leave. Idiots
I still can’t believe a majority of us lot voted for leave. Idiots
So you’re saying people understood it was a stupid idea but voted leave anyway to teach those that said it was stupid a lesson?Rightly or wrongly, many people voted to leave due to that very same condescending sneering that you are doing here.
You're better than that.
I think I was thinking better of people than that!! Most on here are as bright and many are far brighter than me. The majority of whom voted to leave. Idiots was probably harsh but it still surprises meRightly or wrongly, many people voted to leave due to that very same condescending sneering that you are doing here.
You're better than that.
I can. The press did their job well jumping on the back of a world recession using anger at that to sell a lie.I still can’t believe a majority of us lot voted for leave. Idiots
I think I was thinking better of people than that!! Most on here are as bright and many are far brighter than me. The majority of whom voted to leave. Idiots was probably harsh but it still surprises me
Unlikely I would think and not quite the pointPerhaps Sir Starmer should put in his manifesto to return into the EU fold as soon as possible?
Vote winner?
So you’re saying people understood it was a stupid idea but voted leave anyway to teach those that said it was stupid a lesson?
I think I was thinking better of people than that!! Most on here are as bright and many are far brighter than me. The majority of whom voted to leave. Idiots was probably harsh but it still surprises me
I think we all know at least one “We’ve” had enough of experts” types.You may jest but I do know someone who voted Leave for this exact reason.
The fact is every government since we joined won a GE based on a manifesto including closer ties with the EU. Most, including Margaret Thatchers used them exact works. It’s very disingenuous to say it morphed into something we didn’t join when we repeatedly voted in governments who not only backed the EU’s role changing had a mandate from the electorate to drive that change.Most don’t/didn’t want to be a part of the political institution the EU had become, one which continued to get ever closer. We signed up to be part of a trading bloc and ended up being involved in something very different.
You can blame the politicians and the EU as an institution as much as the public, for taking it down a road that a lot of people, rightly or wrongly, didn’t want and never had been allowed a vote on. Many other countries in the EU have had periods where they didn’t want what it was becoming either (check various treaty referendum results which were ignored/revisited). Appreciate since brexit, covid and the war views supporting the EU may have strengthened though
Anyway the debate has been done to death. The two sides never really understand the others position and don’t think that will ever change
The fact is every government since we joined won a GE based on a manifesto including closer ties with the EU. Most, including Margaret Thatchers used them exact works. It’s very disingenuous to say it morphed into something we didn’t join when we repeatedly voted in governments who not only backed the EU’s role changing had a mandate from the electorate to drive that change.
So you’re saying people understood it was a stupid idea but voted leave anyway to teach those that said it was stupid a lesson?
The fact is every government since we joined won a GE based on a manifesto including closer ties with the EU. Most, including Margaret Thatchers used them exact works. It’s very disingenuous to say it morphed into something we didn’t join when we repeatedly voted in governments who not only backed the EU’s role changing had a mandate from the electorate to drive that change.
You’re being disingenuous again. Half the public didn’t vote out, not even half of eligible voters did.Hmmm, I understand what you’re saying but i wasn’t being disingenuous. The fact is it would be a minor voting issue for most people (until 2017). When the referendum finally came half the public voted out so were obviously not happy with what it had become. From memory I think France, Ireland, Holland and possibly one or two others rejected previous treaties which extended the EUs reach. One way or another things were fudged to override the publics views. It just never sat well with me.
However, if I’d have know we’d still be having these debates 6.5 years after the vote, been through non stop political turmoil and as a country hadnt really moved on, I’d have probably sucked it up and voted remain as it hasn’t been worth all the fallout/division. The other stuff will all sort itself out over time with pragmatic, sensible leadership…unfortunately that’s been sadly missing in recent years
Anyway, what’s done is done.
You are in no position to lecture anybody on this. You've already proved on the 'working abroad' thread that you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about when it comes to brexit.
Debating with you on this is pointless, but Pete is a decent chap. I was just surprised he would come out with something like that.
You’re being disingenuous again. Half the public didn’t vote out, not even half of eligible voters did.
You’re also admitting I’m right. The EU didn’t morph into a “monster”. Maggies final manifesto even bragged about how we’d changed the EU. John Majors manifesto where he brags about signing the Maastricht treaty won him an unprecedented majority government. There’s been several treaties since we joined, all our governments shaped them treaties, bragged about it, took them to the electorate, wanted patting on the back for doing it and pat we did. Like I said, the argument it changed and we had no say in it is just another lie to add to the mountain of lies from those that promoted brexit.
Unlikely I would think and not quite the point
Nah it’s nuanced. We’ve left a union of nations and caused ourselves financial hardship for absolutely no reason.Well it kind of is. Surely the red wall seats now want to return - 100 seat majority surely as those thick idiots have learned the lesson and need to return to Ursulas bosom?
I said get an Irish passport and working in the EU isn’t an issue. No part of that statement is incorrect.You are in no position to lecture anybody on this. You've already proved on the 'working abroad' thread that you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about when it comes to brexit.
Debating with you on this is pointless, but Pete is a decent chap. I was just surprised he would come out with something like that.
It's stretching it to call it a union of nations. It's a pragmatic coalition primarily based on economic necessity and it's popularity amongst member populations is founded on that. There's significant opposition in many member states to much of the non-economic stuff ég social policies, concentration/ movement of powers in Brussels, primacy of EU courts over national etc. The current failure of Brexit has been primarily about poor leadership - governmental in particular. You can throw in the huge disruption of COVID but basically paying the price of ideology replacing practicality. A concept that didn't have proper economic policies in place before the deed was done.Nah it’s nuanced. We’ve left a union of nations and caused ourselves financial hardship for absolutely no reason.
We are where we are so I want competent leaders to deal with these and to make good decisions now
Hmmm, I understand what you’re saying but i wasn’t being disingenuous. The fact is it would be a minor voting issue for most people (until 2017). When the referendum finally came half the public voted out so were obviously not happy with what it had become. From memory I think France, Ireland, Holland and possibly one or two others rejected previous treaties which extended the EUs reach. One way or another things were fudged to override the publics views. It just never sat well with me.
However, if I’d have know we’d still be having these debates 6.5 years after the vote, been through non stop political turmoil and as a country hadnt really moved on, I’d have probably sucked it up and voted remain as it hasn’t been worth all the fallout/division. The other stuff will all sort itself out over time with pragmatic, sensible leadership…unfortunately that’s been sadly missing in recent years
Anyway, what’s done is done.
I don't actually think that's true. I think there's a large portion that can be swayed either way, depending on circumstance at that particular point (you appear to be one of those - I don't mean swayed in a perjorative sense!), but the people you hear are the fundamentalist nutters.. The two sides never really understand the others position and don’t think that will ever change
I don't actually think that's true. I think there's a large portion that can be swayed either way, depending on circumstance at that particular point (you appear to be one of those - I don't mean swayed in a perjorative sense!), but the people you hear are the fundamentalist nutters.
3-4% of inflation directly related to the decision to leave the euI agree mate. Pre Brexit both ours and many European countries would swing from minority in support of EU to minority against it. A lot of this will depend on people’s individual circumstances, the performance of the economy etc….as well as some external persuasions as you say. My frustration was always rather than listen to approx 50% of people’s concerns, it was just plough on and force a closer union. It’s shouldn’t even be close as there are no doubt major benefits in being a member
I also honestly don’t think there would be anywhere near as much of a widespread negative view if we didn’t have the hardship caused by covid followed by the war* which has made people feel ten times worse off than any direct impact of Brexit….having said that both of which were probably brexits fault according to some
* together with the ongoing political shitshow
What Covid did do however was stop in its tracks any campaign against the direction we were heading - no more marches to go to! It left just Tony all on the sidelines.I also honestly don’t think there would be anywhere near as much of a widespread negative view if we didn’t have the hardship caused by covid followed by the war* which has made people feel ten times worse off than any direct impact of Brexit….having said that both of which were probably brexits fault according to some
* together with the ongoing political shitshow
I agree mate. Pre Brexit both ours and many European countries would swing from minority in support of EU to minority against it. A lot of this will depend on people’s individual circumstances, the performance of the economy etc….as well as some external persuasions as you say. My frustration was always rather than listen to approx 50% of people’s concerns, it was just plough on and force a closer union. It’s shouldn’t even be close as there are no doubt major benefits in being a member
I also honestly don’t think there would be anywhere near as much of a widespread negative view if we didn’t have the hardship caused by covid followed by the war* which has made people feel ten times worse off than any direct impact of Brexit….having said that both of which were probably brexits fault according to some
* together with the ongoing political shitshow, public services at breaking point/strikes etc
The answer is really simple. We’re the only country in history to ever impose sanctions on ourselves. And we are world beating at it. The sanctions are so effective they’re doing more damage to our economy than the sanctions the western world has put on Russia has done to Russias economy. Yet people still want to pretend otherwise.I'm not sure how people can keep ignoring this fact but we are the only G7 country whose economy hasn't returned to pre pandemic levels, why is that?
Are you suggesting we're the only country affected by the pandemic and the war? If not, what is your explanation for the state of our economy?
The answer is really simple. We’re the only country in history to ever impose sanctions on ourselves. And we are world beating at it. The sanctions are so effective they’re doing more damage to our economy than the sanctions the western world has put on Russia has done to Russias economy. Yet people still want to pretend otherwise.
I'm not sure how people can keep ignoring this fact but we are the only G7 country whose economy hasn't returned to pre pandemic levels, why is that?
Are you suggesting we're the only country affected by the pandemic and the war? If not, what is your explanation for the state of our economy?
The answer is really simple. We’re the only country in history to ever impose sanctions on ourselves. And we are world beating at it. The sanctions are so effective they’re doing more damage to our economy than the sanctions the western world has put on Russia has done to Russias economy. Yet people still want to pretend otherwise.
Its because our slump was worse then many wasn’t it?
You don't believe that. And it might have some traction if the outlooks going forward were good, but they're not.
I think it was I assume as we have a large service industry. if we want to get controversial if the uk had decided to carry on through the pandemic and ignored lockdown it would have the highest growth
I worked every single day through the lockdown
Its because our slump was worse then many wasn’t it?
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?