The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (35 Viewers)

[Astute]

That doesn't make sense? The present rules do prevent it but he UK government doesn't, or can't, enforce the rules. That being the case it doesn't matter what the rules are changed to.

EU Directive 2004/38/EC (which only the UK and Ireland opted out of) states EU citizens can only stay for 3 months (i.e. a holiday).

Any longer than that and both they and their family members must show they have sufficient resources and health insurance so they are not a burden on the host member state.

A member state can expel Union citizens on grounds of public policy, public security or public health.

How much stricter do you want it to be post Brexit and how do you think it will be enforced?

Where are you getting 100% occupancy from? The Department for Communities and Local Government / ONS figures show a steady rise in empty properties from 800K in 1996 to 1.1m in 2005 to 1.4m in 2014 (the last year the data has been released for). Only 1 in 10 social homes sold under right to buy is replaced, the number of new builds has dropped 97% since the conservatives came in to power.

At the same time there has been a 60% rise in people living in temporary accommodation, including 120,540 children and an increase in homelessness of 134%

Traditionally a change in personal circumstances has been the top cause of homelessness but it has now become in-affordability of private rentals following the end of a tenancy agreement.

No doubt related to that fact that 40% of social housing sold under right to buy ends up on the private rental market at up to seven time the previously paid rent.

I didn't say no student accommodation. I said it is a cheap and easy route for developers.

The builds are lower quality therefore cheaper. The rooms are smaller and other facilities shared meaning they can pack more people in and therefore generate more rent.

Build on the cheap, cash in and who cares if its falling apart in 25 years and needs replacing.

OK lets pick this apart bit by bit.

Firstly what rules do we have where we can choose who and how many people we let in?

Does this go against the EU freedom of movement?

 

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[Sick Boy]

That doesn't make sense? The present rules do prevent it but he UK government doesn't, or can't, enforce the rules. That being the case it doesn't matter what the rules are changed to.

EU Directive 2004/38/EC (which only the UK and Ireland opted out of) states EU citizens can only stay for 3 months (i.e. a holiday).

Any longer than that and both they and their family members must show they have sufficient resources and health insurance so they are not a burden on the host member state.

A member state can expel Union citizens on grounds of public policy, public security or public health.

How much stricter do you want it to be post Brexit and how do you think it will be enforced?

Where are you getting 100% occupancy from? The Department for Communities and Local Government / ONS figures show a steady rise in empty properties from 800K in 1996 to 1.1m in 2005 to 1.4m in 2014 (the last year the data has been released for). Only 1 in 10 social homes sold under right to buy is replaced, the number of new builds has dropped 97% since the conservatives came in to power.

At the same time there has been a 60% rise in people living in temporary accommodation, including 120,540 children and an increase in homelessness of 134%

Traditionally a change in personal circumstances has been the top cause of homelessness but it has now become in-affordability of private rentals following the end of a tenancy agreement.

No doubt related to that fact that 40% of social housing sold under right to buy ends up on the private rental market at up to seven time the previously paid rent.

I didn't say no student accommodation. I said it is a cheap and easy route for developers.

The builds are lower quality therefore cheaper. The rooms are smaller and other facilities shared meaning they can pack more people in and therefore generate more rent.

Build on the cheap, cash in and who cares if its falling apart in 25 years and needs replacing.

In Italy I had to produce a contract of employment just to open to bank account. They also have the infastructure in place to know the whereabouts of every eu citizen resident in the country.

 

[Astute]

At the same time there has been a 60% rise in people living in temporary accommodation, including 120,540 children and an increase in homelessness of 134%

Which has been caused by millions more people living in the UK than we have homes for. And more continue to come here.

 

[Astute]

No doubt related to that fact that 40% of social housing sold under right to buy ends up on the private rental market at up to seven time the previously paid rent.

But how does it cause homelessness when they are lived in?

 

[Sick Boy]

Which has been caused by millions more people living in the UK than we have homes for. And more continue to come here.

Less than 2% of the country is built upon, we need to build new homes not trying to to drive away talented, tax contributing workers.

 

[Astute]

Less than 2% of the country is built upon, we need to build new homes not trying to to drive away talented, tax contributing workers.

So we should build on flood plains, supply houseboats and put tents on mountains

So who is going to pay for the.millions.of new homes and where are the tradesmen going to come from?

Will you only be happy when there is no more land left to build on? Not enough hospitals? Not enough doctors? Not enough roads?

 

[Grendel]

Who has called him a scab?

Just seen the ever reliable Express mentioned it. Surprised you now consider yourself to be a socialist by the way.

Why rather than condemn things do you deny them?

Labour MP Dennis Skinner branded a 'SCAB' by Corbyn fanatics after defying leader’s orders - News Pig

 

[martcov]

OK lets pick this apart bit by bit.

Firstly what rules do we have where we can choose who and how many people we let in?

Does this go against the EU freedom of movement?

There is no absolute freedom of movement. As Dave says, you are supposed to get a job within so many months. It would help if we had ID cards and everyone was registered where they live. Probably a reason why we can't enforce the 3 months rule. We have no system of registration. Registration and ID cards would also help in the fight against terrorism. Who scrapped the plan for ID cards? What tossers.

 

[martcov]

In Italy I had to produce a contract of employment just to open to bank account. They also have the infastructure in place to know the whereabouts of every eu citizen resident in the country.

In Germany you have to register. The authorities know how long you have lived here. They send you a tax number and sooner or later want to know what you are doing.

 

[Grendel]

Less than 2% of the country is built upon, we need to build new homes not trying to to drive away talented, tax contributing workers.

We have the third highest population density in Europe.

 

[Sick Boy]

Why rather than condemn things do you deny them?

Labour MP Dennis Skinner branded a 'SCAB' by Corbyn fanatics after defying leader’s orders - News Pig

Where did I deny it? I have a lot of respect for him, and didn't appreciate the attacks on my own MP, Peter Kyle after he went against JC and voted against Brexit.

 

[martcov]

So we should build on flood plains, supply houseboats and put tents on mountains

So who is going to pay for the.millions.of new homes and where are the tradesmen going to come from?

Will you only be happy when there is no more land left to build on? Not enough hospitals? Not enough doctors? Not enough roads?

You seem to be in panic mode. Let's see what happens when no more EU immigrants are there and the baby boomers and the ones like me - a couple of years younger- all retire and stop being productive. Who is going to look after us?
We all will start getting frailer and in the last years of our life will need more medical care and general care. The good news is that when we go you will have more housing available...

 

[Grendel]

There is no absolute freedom of movement. As Dave says, you are supposed to get a job within so many months. It would help if we had ID cards and everyone was registered where they live. Probably a reason why we can't enforce the 3 months rule. We have no system of registration. Registration and ID cards would also help in the fight against terrorism. Who scrapped the plan for ID cards? What tossers.

Yes Jeremy Corbyn is a tosser I agree.

 

[martcov]

Yes Jeremy Corbyn is a tosser I agree.

I think you mean Cameron and the tossers who scrapped ID cards. At least we would know who was in our country.

 

[Grendel]

I think you mean Cameron and the tossees who scrapped ID cards. At least we would know who was in our country.

Oh dear you really must do your research better

 

[martcov]

Oh dear you really must do your research better

You mean get my facts wrong like you.

 

[Astute]

You seem to be in panic mode. Let's see what happens when no more EU immigrants are there and the baby boomers and the ones like me - a couple of years younger- all retire and stop being productive. Who is going to look after us?
We all will start getting frailer and in the last years of our life will need more medical care and general care. The good news is that when we go you will have more housing available...

Me in panic mode? That is down to those living in Germany or who has a partner from the EU. Because nobody can trust Juncker to want any sort of deal.

So how about his latest rant? What a joke.

 

[martcov]

Me in panic mode? That is down to those living in Germany or who has a partner from the EU. Because nobody can trust Juncker to want any sort of deal.

So how about his latest rant? What a joke.

Joke? He has made it quite clear that the EU can take advantage of Brexit to become fairer and efficienter. Life goes on. You won - get over it.

 

[Astute]

The good news is that when we go you will have more housing available...

Would you like to explain this comment?

You don't even live in the UK.

 

[martcov]

Would you like to explain this comment?

You don't even live in the UK.

My generation does.

 

[Astute]

Joke? He has made it quite clear that the EU can take advantage of Brexit to become fairer and efficienter. Life goes on. You won - get over it.

With an EU army. More countries joining the EU. Wanting it to become what Russia was. Making the Euro mandatory. Making more positions for unvoted for gravy trainers that can't be voted out....and not voted in.

Or did you miss it all?

 

[Astute]

My generation does.

So you are not a part of your generation? You said when you leave.

 

[martcov]

With an EU army. More countries joining the EU. Wanting it to become what Russia was. Making the Euro mandatory. Making more positions for unvoted for gravy trainers that can't be voted out....and not voted in.

Or did you miss it all?

Turkey? What Russia was? A communist state? Gulags? One party state? Yes, I missed that.

EU military cooperation. Yes, I hope so. Can't rely on Trump.

Unvoted? You mean nominated by elected governments - as opposed to the House of Lords? Or the royal family?

Gravy trainers? Nigel Farage!

Mandatory Euro? Yes I can see the point of that. One market with one universal currency. Logic.

 

[Kingokings204]

Junckers big speech today made me very happy I voted for brexit.

Indeed his speech was very worrying and chilling. A lot of things mentioned that we were told date not to think.

 

[martcov]

So you are not a part of your generation? You said when you leave.

I said my generation- "my" implies belonging to. There are loads of "me" who will have to be cared for. Then, just as we suddenly needed more schools and houses in the 50s and 60s - as Coventry boomed - we will die in our 80s ( roughly the same age ).

 

[Kingokings204]

Turkey? What Russia was? A communist state? Gulags? One party state? Yes, I missed that.

EU military cooperation. Yes, I hope so. Can't rely on Trump.

Unvoted? You mean nominated by elected governments - as opposed to the House of Lords? Or the royal family?

Gravy trainers? Nigel Farage!

Mandatory Euro? Yes I can see the point of that. One market with one universal currency. Logic.

And this post is why we fundamentally disagree and what these millions of pages are all about. You want a United States of Europe. An anthem and no borders. You want a single currency throughout and you want a military army.

I want a Europe of individual nation states who each have their own identity and sovereignty. Courts are supreme in that country and all have their own currency. We all can trade and be friendly with each-other and share security.

This is basically the whole thread in a nut shell.

 

[SkyblueBazza]

I think it is good that we have low unemployment- although apparently foreigners have taken British workers jobs - and that in some regions wages are rising faster than house prices.

Is this the German 'we' or the British 'we'?

Thing is not so long back I think you were one of those spouting about EU workers leaving Britain as a result of Brexit...which kinda explains why more people are in employment. EU people leave, vacancies arise...British people fill the jobs maybe? I'm sure you will offer a more complex reasoning though.

Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk

 

[martcov]

Junckers big speech today made me very happy I voted for brexit.

Indeed his speech was very worrying and chilling. A lot of things mentioned that we were told date not to think.

It made me happy living in the EU. Brexit is dead - irrelevant in the EU. Farage said he was surprised no one was mentioning it in the German election- I'm not. We are moving on. Sorry for the UK though. I think it shows why the EU say "the clock is ticking".

You won. So be happy.

 

[Grendel]

You mean get my facts wrong like you.

Who do you think would vote for ID cards?

A - civil liberty supporters such as Peter Hitchen, Shami Chakrabarti, David Cameron and Jeremy

B - White Supremacists

Corbyn voted against the bill you twerp.

 

[SkyblueBazza]

There is no absolute freedom of movement. As Dave says, you are supposed to get a job within so many months. It would help if we had ID cards and everyone was registered where they live. Probably a reason why we can't enforce the 3 months rule. We have no system of registration. Registration and ID cards would also help in the fight against terrorism. Who scrapped the plan for ID cards? What tossers.

So Registration/Identity Cards are a good thing are they?
The Nazi's/Communists/Facit or any extreme political group would certainly agree with that...they love that sort of thing.

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[martcov]

And this post is why we fundamentally disagree and what these millions of pages are all about. You want a United States of Europe. An anthem and no borders. You want a single currency throughout and you want a military army.

I want a Europe of individual nation states who each have their own identity and sovereignty. Courts are supreme in that country and all have their own currency. We all can trade and be friendly with each-other and share security.

This is basically the whole thread in a nut shell.

Yes. Been there, done that. Ended with the destruction of most of Europe. You should watch world at war. The future is being politically and economically competitive with the major countries of the world. You want the past. It's gone. The rest of the world has moved on.

Enjoy.

 

[martcov]

Who do you think would vote for ID cards?

A - civil liberty supporters such as Peter Hitchen, Shami Chakrabarti, David Cameron and Jeremy

B - White Supremacists

Corbyn voted against the bill you twerp.

Who dropped ID cards after the election?

 

[chiefdave]

Firstly what rules do we have where we can choose who and how many people we let in?

The EU Citizens' Rights Directive 2004/38/EC. Clause 9 states EU citizens have an unrestricted right to visit for 3 months only.

Further clauses show some of the restrictions on stays over 3 months, for example clause 10 states the EU citizen must not be a burden on the host countries social assistance system. clause 12 says they must all be registered in the host country and, if the host countries government wishes, requires them to have ID cards.

Clause 22 allows the host country to suspend immigration on the basis of policy, security or health.
So the reality is, if the UK chose to enforce it, you could only come to the UK if you had work here and if you leave that job and are no longer employed you lose the right to stay here. You have to maintain employed status for 5 years to be granted permanent residence.

What are you expecting to be put in place post brexit? Presumably something stricter than the above so by definition you are looking to refuse entry to those who have jobs here which will be an issue for those industries that require that labour.

Does this go against the EU freedom of movement?

The EU Citizens' Rights Directive 2004/38/EC is more commonly referred to as the EU Freedom of Movement Directive, it is the rules around which Freedom of Movement is based so can't possibly go against it.

 

[chiefdave]

But how does it cause homelessness when they are lived in?

Because they aren't lived in. There is a record number of empty homes and its increasing.

 

[Grendel]

Who dropped ID cards after the election?

I will answer the question when you answer mine I promise

A or B?