The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (40 Viewers)

[martcov]

So Registration/Identity Cards are a good thing are they?
The Nazi's/Communists/Facit or any extreme political group would certainly agree with that...they love that sort of thing.

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You mean most of Europe? We and Ireland are exceptions.

We insisted on ID cards for Germans when we were the occupation force in Germany. Are we fascists or Nazis?

Of course they are a good thing. Who are the people bleating about mad Merkel not knowing who is in her country?

 

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[martcov]

I will answer the question when you answer mine I promise

A or B?

White supremacists wouldn't- although they use their drivers license as an ID card in the USA. They don't believe in big government or communism ( which they would associate with ID catds ).

I don't know about A, but Cameron scrapped ID cards.

 

[Kingokings204]

Yes. Been there, done that. Ended with the destruction of most of Europe. You should watch world at war. The future is being politically and economically competitive with the major countries of the world. You want the past. It's gone. The rest of the world has moved on.

Enjoy.

There is over 200 countries in the world. Wow how is the world still alive today the way you speak. You're still under the same mis comprehension as your Brussels buddies. They think it was the nation state that was responsible for world worlds actually it was non democratic nation states that was responsible.

Listen I respect your point of view it's clear how you see the world. many people see it like you do but I will always argue for nation state democracy and each country deciding their own currency laws and borders and parliaments.

 

[martcov]

Is this the German 'we' or the British 'we'?

Thing is not so long back I think you were one of those spouting about EU workers leaving Britain as a result of Brexit...which kinda explains why more people are in employment. EU people leave, vacancies arise...British people fill the jobs maybe? I'm sure you will offer a more complex reasoning though.

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German "we" is "wir". I said "we". ;-)

I don't think it is an exact correlation- EU go, Brits get a job.

 

[chiefdave]

Which has been caused by millions more people living in the UK than we have homes for. And more continue to come here.

Not really millions is it?

but of course its all the bloody immigrants fault, nothing to do with the decline in number of homes being built.

 

[Kingokings204]

It made me happy living in the EU. Brexit is dead - irrelevant in the EU. Farage said he was surprised no one was mentioning it in the German election- I'm not. We are moving on. Sorry for the UK though. I think it shows why the EU say "the clock is ticking".

You won. So be happy.

The reason it isn't being mentioned in the German election is they don't want to face up to the fact brexit is an embarrassment for them. Sweep it under the carpet attitude it isn't really happening. It's the same attitude why we voted for brexit ironically.

The Eu is profoundly undemocratic what was it juncker said infamously "when things get serious you have to lie" And " if the french vote yes we move on and if they vote no we will continue"

Jean-Claude Juncker's most outrageous political quotations

you're welcome to it Mart.

 

[chiefdave]

So lets just for a second imagine that post Brexit EU immigration is suddenly zero.

Where do we get the labour we need from? Don't say we'll let in people from the EU to work because that's what the directive is now and you've said we need to leave to take control.

And besides that how are we doing a trade deal with the EU without signing up to the same regulations on movement we've just voted to leave.

Not to mention other countries. India for example have said they will only consider a trade deal if we agree to a huge increase in migration and unlimited numbers of family members are granted permanent residence.

 

[martcov]

There is over 200 countries in the world. Wow how is the world still alive today the way you speak. You're still under the same mis comprehension as your Brussels buddies. They think it was the nation state that was responsible for world worlds actually it was non democratic nation states that was responsible.

Listen I respect your point of view it's clear how you see the world. many people see it like you do but I will always argue for nation state democracy and each country deciding their own currency laws and borders and parliaments.

The Weimar Republik was a democracy- until the Enabling Act after the Reichstag Fire. Making Germany great again, making Britain great again or making USA great again as opposed to close international cooperation usually will end in tears. 72 years of peace in Europe partly because of the EU is something worth sticking up for.

 

[martcov]

The reason it isn't being mentioned in the German election is they don't want to face up to the fact brexit is an embarrassment for them. Sweep it under the carpet attitude it isn't really happening. It's the same attitude why we voted for brexit ironically.

The Eu is profoundly undemocratic what was it juncker said infamously "when things get serious you have to lie" And " if the french vote yes we move on and if they vote no we will continue"

you're welcome to it Mart.

The House of Lords and the monarchy - and the great repeal act - are profoundly undemocratic.

No one is sweeping Brexit under the carpet in the German election- it just isn't relevant.

If you voted for that, then I think you made a mistake.

 

[Grendel]

White supremacists wouldn't- although they use their drivers license as an ID card in the USA. They don't believe in big government or communism ( which they would associate with ID catds ).

I don't know about A, but Cameron scrapped ID cards.

You are mental or stupid or both. Cameron scrapped ID cards as he believes in civil liberty which you clearly do not.

 

[martcov]

You are mental or stupid or both. Cameron scrapped ID cards as he believes in civil liberty which you clearly do not.

How the hell does having an ID card like most of Europe impede civil liberty? No one asks for my ID unless I get stopped at a traffic control or want money from a bank. I find it useful. I ask for it when I employ people. Why aren't people out on the streets throughout Europe protesting? In the present climate registration helps by at least giving a start in a terrorist investigation. I believe in civil liberty, but life is easier if you can prove who you are when needed.

People on here criticized Merkel for not knowing who is in her country. Bit rich coming from the U.K..

 

[martcov]

You are mental or stupid or both. Cameron scrapped ID cards as he believes in civil liberty which you clearly do not.

Is that the answer you promised me? So, you mean yes, Cameron is the tosser who scrapped ID cards whilst the Islamic threat continues to grow.

 

[Grendel]

How the hell does having an ID card like most of Europe impend civil liberty? No one asks for my ID unless I get stopped at a traffic control or want money from a bank. I find it useful. I ask for it when I employ people. Why aren't people out on the streets throughout Europe protesting? In the present climate registration helps by at least giving a start in a terrorist investigation. I believe in civil liberty, but life is easier if you can prove who you are when needed.

People on here criticized Merkel for not knowing who is in her country. Bit rich coming from the U.K..

There is no one on earth who believes in civil liberty and freedom who would ever support the introduction of ID cards.

The case against ID cards

 

[Grendel]

Is that the answer you promised me? So, you mean yes, Cameron is the tosser who scrapped ID cards whilst the Islamic threat continues to grow.

Cameron like the others I mentioned is a libertarian. He believed in freedom of the individual and the idea of large state control of the individual he rejected.

The nazis, the Stalinists, the Mau regime, North Korea etc are on your side.

Keep digging.

 

[martcov]

Cameron like the others I mentioned is a libertarian. He believed in freedom of the individual and the idea of large state control of the individual he rejected.

The nazis, the Stalinists, the Mau regime, North Korea etc are on your side.

Keep digging.

And the British occupation force ... and almost all of Europe... What extra state control is involved?

 

[Kingokings204]

The House of Lords and the monarchy - and the great repeal act - are profoundly undemocratic.

No one is sweeping Brexit under the carpet in the German election- it just isn't relevant.

If you voted for that, then I think you made a mistake.

I accept your point on the lords and monarchy as I did earlier in this thread but luckily both are subjected to parliament who has final say. Elected politicians by us the public. Who voted for juncker? I didn't and nor did you.

Oh brexit is very relevant. Believe you me. Hundreds of thousands of German jobs are at risk due to brexit as we've discussed. It's a total embarrassment for the EU and Germany. They didn't discuss it in the tv debate and juncker didn't hardly mention it today. The eu don't like democracy and referendum results as we well know and as for Germany Britain leaving means the second biggest contributed is leaving and who will foot the bill? More than likely the Germans. That and the big risk to German hundreds of thousands manufactor jobs, That's why it isn't being discussed. Sweep sweep sweep.

 

[Astute]

Turkey? What Russia was? A communist state? Gulags? One party state? Yes, I missed that.

EU military cooperation. Yes, I hope so. Can't rely on Trump.

Unvoted? You mean nominated by elected governments - as opposed to the House of Lords? Or the royal family?

Gravy trainers? Nigel Farage!

Mandatory Euro? Yes I can see the point of that. One market with one universal currency. Logic.

There you go. You didn't listen to his so called speech.

Can't you see what has happened to most countries that have joined the Euro? There will be more wrecked economies. More major bailouts. More countries where the young leave and leave the old behind. These countries can't be rebuilt because of this.

 

[Astute]

It made me happy living in the EU. Brexit is dead - irrelevant in the EU. Farage said he was surprised no one was mentioning it in the German election- I'm not. We are moving on. Sorry for the UK though. I think it shows why the EU say "the clock is ticking".

You won. So be happy.

I won? I didn't vote leave. Wish I had now that the truth is out.

 

[Astute]

Yes. Been there, done that. Ended with the destruction of most of Europe. You should watch world at war. The future is being politically and economically competitive with the major countries of the world. You want the past. It's gone. The rest of the world has moved on.

Enjoy.

Have watched it all more than once. All started with a dictator who brainwashed people. Germany wanting to take over Europe.

 

[Astute]

The EU Citizens' Rights Directive 2004/38/EC. Clause 9 states EU citizens have an unrestricted right to visit for 3 months only.

Further clauses show some of the restrictions on stays over 3 months, for example clause 10 states the EU citizen must not be a burden on the host countries social assistance system. clause 12 says they must all be registered in the host country and, if the host countries government wishes, requires them to have ID cards.

Clause 22 allows the host country to suspend immigration on the basis of policy, security or health.
So the reality is, if the UK chose to enforce it, you could only come to the UK if you had work here and if you leave that job and are no longer employed you lose the right to stay here. You have to maintain employed status for 5 years to be granted permanent residence.

What are you expecting to be put in place post brexit? Presumably something stricter than the above so by definition you are looking to refuse entry to those who have jobs here which will be an issue for those industries that require that labour.

The EU Citizens' Rights Directive 2004/38/EC is more commonly referred to as the EU Freedom of Movement Directive, it is the rules around which Freedom of Movement is based so can't possibly go against it.

We would need a police force bigger than we have now just to deal with people already here. Then when you try and do something about it the human rights card is used. It isn't easy to even remove the serious criminals. Look how long it took to sort out Hamza. His family couldn't get removed.

 

[Astute]

Because they aren't lived in. There is a record number of empty homes and its increasing.

People have holiday homes. The rich have bought up the expensive parts of London.

So where in the cities are all these empty houses?

 

[Astute]

Not really millions is it?
View attachment 8017
but of course its all the bloody immigrants fault, nothing to do with the decline in number of homes being built.
View attachment 8018

Who said enough houses have been built? Do you think it is good that enough people come here that would occupy a small city when we can't house them...can't even house those already here or that were born here.

So you have the official numbers. The proper amount is much higher.

 

[Astute]

So lets just for a second imagine that post Brexit EU immigration is suddenly zero.

Where do we get the labour we need from? Don't say we'll let in people from the EU to work because that's what the directive is now and you've said we need to leave to take control.

And besides that how are we doing a trade deal with the EU without signing up to the same regulations on movement we've just voted to leave.

Not to mention other countries. India for example have said they will only consider a trade deal if we agree to a huge increase in migration and unlimited numbers of family members are granted permanent residence.

Same old crap reply.

Who said zero immigration?

Being able to choose how many and what skills over having an EU passport any day.

 

[Astute]

The House of Lords and the monarchy - and the great repeal act - are profoundly undemocratic.

No one is sweeping Brexit under the carpet in the German election- it just isn't relevant.

If you voted for that, then I think you made a mistake.

Will it be irrelevant when Germany has to dig deeper to make up for the billions not coming from this direction?

 

[Sick Boy]

You are mental or stupid or both. Cameron scrapped ID cards as he believes in civil liberty which you clearly do not.

Brexit has made the introduction of ID cards more likely in the long-run.

 

[Sick Boy]

The nazis, the Stalinists, the Mau regime, North Korea etc are on your side.

Keep digging.

Pathetic.

 

[martcov]

Will it be irrelevant when Germany has to dig deeper to make up for the billions not coming from this direction?

I suspect they will reduce the EU budget accordingly. People are not interested- at the moment. Who says the U.K. Won't be paying in in order to be in the single market? Not been decided yet.

 

[martcov]

Same old crap reply.

Who said zero immigration?

Being able to choose how many and what skills over having an EU passport any day.

Will these skilled people be allowed to bring their families? What about the unskilled or semi skilled that we need?

 

[Grendel]

Will these skilled people be allowed to bring their families? What about the unskilled or semi skilled that we need?

Yes and yes. As happens now with people who come from non eu markets.

Why wouldn't they be allowed to bring their families you clown.

 

[martcov]

Who said enough houses have been built? Do you think it is good that enough people come here that would occupy a small city when we can't house them...can't even house those already here or that were born here.

So you have the official numbers. The proper amount is much higher.

Is it true that immigrants as a whole are sleeping on the streets? I don't think a small city of people land on the streets every year - at least not because of foreigners. Houses will be built if there is a demand. What happened here though is that high quality homes are being built by private firms as they bring in more money than cheaper homes. The government or rather local government, doesn't provide enough "council house" cheap property- "Sozialwohnungen".

 

[martcov]

Yes and yes. As happens now with people who come from non eu markets.

Why wouldn't they be allowed to bring their families you clown.

Well that is what I mean. Even if you restrict it to skilled workers, they will bring their families. It won't just be the workers. You clown for not catching what I was saying. Pretty sure Astute got that.

 

[Grendel]

Well that is what I mean. Even if you restrict it to skilled workers, they will bring their families. It won't just be the workers. You clown for not catching what I was saying. Pretty sure Astute got that.

Do you know anything about overseas employees outside of the eu.

We have employees from every continent here on easily obtained work permits and guess what. They all bring their families with them.

 

[chiefdave]

We would need a police force bigger than we have now just to deal with people already here. Then when you try and do something about it the human rights card is used. It isn't easy to even remove the serious criminals. Look how long it took to sort out Hamza. His family couldn't get removed.

OK, so if we can't enforce the regulations now how are we going to enforce whatever new regulations come in? That's what makes no sense. We vote to leave to 'take back control of our borders' when we already have the right to control them but not he ability and / or manpower.

Hamza is Egyptian so leaving the EU will make zero difference to how cases such as his are handled.

So where in the cities are all these empty houses?

Where in particular did you want to know about. There's 26,576 in the West Midlands, 3,189 of those in Cov.

Who said zero immigration?

Being able to choose how many and what skills over having an EU passport any day.

The rules at the moment, if we enforced them, mean only those who have jobs here are allowed in. What is the difference between that and whatever new system it is you are proposing?

 

[Astute]

I suspect they will reduce the EU budget accordingly. People are not interested- at the moment. Who says the U.K. Won't be paying in in order to be in the single market? Not been decided yet.

Why not reduce it now?

 

[Astute]

Will these skilled people be allowed to bring their families? What about the unskilled or semi skilled that we need?

Why ask when you think anyone from the EU should be allowed to live here no matter what the skills mix.