Astute
Well-Known Member
Because most of us are not ignoring what is going on hoping it will go away.
This seems to be a pro EU thing. Shout it from the rooftops if you can make it look good. Ignore it or say it doesn't matter if it is bad.
Because most of us are not ignoring what is going on hoping it will go away.Over 85% against AfD and neo Nazis. Very decisive. Why are people on here talking about them?
The Catalan vote was legal. But those didn't want it to happen so said it was illegal. Then the unthinkable happened.It was legal for a start and those wanting to remain as part of Spain wouldn't have gone out and voted.
52/48 is a majority. It's democracy. Get over it.26-2 is a lot more convincing than 52:48. Its democracy, get over it.
The Catalan vote was legal. But those didn't want it to happen so said it was illegal. Then the unthinkable happened.
So are you saying that it would have been a 100% vote to become independent?
Would you like to explain how the poorer countries will do as well in a single currency as a country that is strong? Or don't you have a grasp of economics?
52/48 is a majority. It's democracy. Get over it.
The Catalan vote was legal. But those didn't want it to happen so said it was illegal. Then the unthinkable happened.
So are you saying that it would have been a 100% vote to become independent?
Good, so you now agree that Juncker won his election by European governments more convincingly than your narrow referendum "victory"?
Something you don't have an answer for. So you pretend to be thick.What on earth are you going on about now?
Try being serious about Greece then.The Budesrepublik has states which are rich and states that are poor. All under the same currency. They survive by transferring money from the rich to the poor states. Scotland has poor regions and as a whole is being subsidised by England. All under the same currency. The United States has rich and poor states all under the same currency. It is not the best case when some states are poorer than others and have to have support, but there were always poorer and richer states in Europe. Now they are under the Euro and there will have to be support and there will doubtless be transfers of wealth.
The alternative is to leave them poor as they constantly devalue their currency - which was always the case for Greece and which kept most of them poor. Good for holidaymakers though...
Did you vote for him? Did I vote for him? Do you know anyone who voted for him?Good, so you now agree that Juncker won his election by European governments more convincingly than your narrow referendum "victory"?
Something you don't have an answer for. So you pretend to be thick.
The Scottish had the vote. Leave or stay. There was not two parties as you try to make out.How did you determine the legality of the Catalonian vote? There were observers there - my brother was one - but the election itself was not legal according to the King and government of Spain. I believe them because you cannot have a referendum without involving both parties. Even ours was allowed because there was a provision for it in the EU rules. Which provision in the Spanish constitution allowed Catalonia to have a referendum without the consent of the King and the Spanish parliament? It would certainly be a condition that the vote was more than 60%. A small majority wouldn't give a conclusive answer as there will always be almost daily small fluctuations of opinion based on current affairs. Spain and Catalonia would not be stupid enough to base their futures on, say, an advisory referendum with a 52:48 majority either way. Only total tossers would allow that.
So why was it illegal other than the Spanish wanting it.not to happen?The vote was not legal and I've already said that the majority of those wishing to remain part of Spain would have been unlikely to go out and vote.
So why was it illegal other than the Spanish wanting it.not to happen?
What was illegal was the way they were treated by the police. If it was an illegal vote they would not have to had used illegal approaches to stop the vote. If it was illegal the result wouldn't have stood. That would have been much better than the police attacking people.
Those that will defend anything that happens in the EU would argue. Just like what is happening now. And as for saying that those who want to stay as a part of Spain wouldn't vote.... why did they risk getting attacked by the police to vote to stay then?I think that's right. If it was illegal referendum then just let them take it and say well it wasn't legal. Who could of argued?
Surely better than hitting women like how we saw. Those videos were shocking.
So why was it illegal other than the Spanish wanting it.not to happen?
What was illegal was the way they were treated by the police. If it was an illegal vote they would not have to had used illegal approaches to stop the vote. If it was illegal the result wouldn't have stood. That would have been much better than the police attacking people.
I think that's right. If it was illegal referendum then just let them take it and say well it wasn't legal. Who could of argued?
Surely better than hitting women like how we saw. Those videos were shocking.
Police brurality should never be tolerated. It has nothing to do with EU though so it has nothing to do with the debate.
Yeah London. A place with a different language and different customs.Presumably if Brexit proves to a disaster you would back London becoming independent if it so wished? It would not require consultation or approval from the rest of the country and could just do what it wanted?
I think the problem was that the EU didn't condem hitting women and actually justified it but saying the referendum was illegal.
Yeah London. A place with a different language and different customs.
And you wonder why people have a problem taking you seriously.
So you now support them getting involved in domestic politics. Would a referendum by London without approval in parliament or by the country be legal?
No of course not. I'm not saying the Catalonia referendum was legal at all. I'm saying either stay out of it all together or get involved. Seems because the Spanish police were doing whatever needed to stop the vote which clearly the EU don't want Catalonia to separate they were quite happily brushing it under the carpet.
The irony is of course now independence in Catalonia is more likely than ever due to this monstrosity and aren't they declaring independence on Monday I read?
Spain are a big part of the EU. The EU are supposed to want what is best for the people of the EU. They like to donate our money to those in need.Police brurality should never be tolerated. It has nothing to do with EU though so it has nothing to do with the debate.
Spain are a big part of the EU. The EU are supposed to want what is best for the people of the EU. They like to donate our money to those in need.
So why don't they even mention anything? It can't have anything to do with Catalonia being one of the most financially strong places in the EU and that it keeps the rest of Spain afloat can it?
Why are we supposed to want one thing for us and then pick and choose the rest?I agree it's more likely. Aren't the people wanting independent pro-EU anyway?
Again, juncker didn't win an election.
Also you are comparing a vote of 26-2 for juncker by member states with a British election referendum where 34 million people took part. Slightly different wouldn't you say?
Why are we supposed to want one thing for us and then pick and choose the rest?
It was absolutely disgusting what happened in Catalonia. Sending in the police to batter their own people. It has no place in a modern society. Those in charge of Spain should be held responsible for what has happened. Just like what happens when other countries outside the EU does the same.
So why is the EU happy to let Spain get away with it? They should at least call a meeting instead of saying that it has nothing to do with them.They are not eurosceptics and would want to stay in the EU. It is the EU that has supposedly told them they wouldn't automatically remain part of it.
Have you not heard of things like embargoes?Who would hold them to account? Who holds non EU countries to account?
But the whole of Spain is much bigger. And the small Catalonia district has more than a quarter of the wealth of Spain.The member states elected representatives represent 500 million people, so 17 million leavers are in relation a very small minority.
Have you not heard of things like embargoes?
But the whole of Spain is much bigger. And the small Catalonia district has more than a quarter of the wealth of Spain.
So our government has now been sending out our police to attack our own people?If one was put on Spain it would be put on us as well. Why should ordinary people like you or I suffer (if there was no EU and we were Spanish) due to actions of a government?
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