The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (60 Viewers)

[martcov]

So you are saying that a decline had nothing to do with the Eu but subsequent increase from a low base (which happens in every country post collapse) does.

That’s not true is it? How’s the construction industry and health systems doing over there?

2008 and 2009 were not the result of lax regulations in the EU except maybe in London. The US sub prime market is generally thought of as the cause. Yes, the recovery had a lot to do with EU solidarity through funding.

 

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[Grendel]

I thought investment and jobs were good things. You are right about corruption, but that has been endemic since the communist era. It has to be fought.

They create jobs at other countries expense - so manufacturers can freely construct production plants in these countries making their own people unemployed and getting cheap labour. So wage suppression remains and corporate capitalism and greed prospers.

You really don’t get it do you?

 

[Grendel]

2008 and 2009 were not the result of lax regulations in the EU except maybe in London. The US sub prime market is generally thought of as the cause. Yes, the recovery had a lot to do with EU solidarity through funding.

Do you have any evidence or is this yet another lie from the EU Nazi?

 

[martcov]

They create jobs at other countries expense - so manufacturers can freely construct production plants in these countries making their own people unemployed and getting cheap labour. So wage suppression remains and corporate capitalism and greed prospers.

You really don’t get it do you?

Are you blaming Bulgaria for the problems of the UK? No, I don’t get that. Better talk to Hedge Fund owners about corporate greed. Rees Mogg would be a good place to start.

 

[martcov]

Do you have any evidence or is this yet another lie from the EU Nazi?

Of what? The US sub prime market in 2007 and 2008? Plenty of information out there. Also plenty of evidence of EU funding in tourism and infrastructure projects in Romania and Bulgaria. Google it.

 

[Grendel]

Of what? The US sub prime market in 2007 and 2008? Plenty of information out there. Also plenty of evidence of EU funding in tourism and infrastructure projects in Romania and Bulgaria. Google it.

No evidence we can look at then. Eu funding of tourism. Great - locals ripped off with shite wages so your German buddies can have cheap ski holidays.

 

[martcov]

No evidence we can look at then. Eu funding of tourism. Great - locals ripped off with shite wages so your German buddies can have cheap ski holidays.

Building a motorway from Bucarest to the Black Sea, modernising the rail connections, funding the Românian tourist office to enable them to promote Romania as a tourist destination throughout the EU . All of which in return brings jobs and prosperity to a poorer region. But you slag it. „I‘m alright Jack“ attitude.

To sum the EU regional development policy up as „cheap ski resorts for Germans“ shows your limited grasp of European cooperation and puts you firmly in the ill informed leavers corner.

 

[Grendel]

Building a motorway from Bucarest to the Black Sea, modernising the rail connections, funding the Românian tourist office to enable them to promote Romania as a tourist destination throughout the EU . All of which in return brings jobs and prosperity to a poorer region. But you slag it. „I‘m alright Jack“ attitude.

To sum the EU regional development policy up as „cheap ski resorts for Germans“ shows your limited grasp of European cooperation and puts you firmly in the ill informed leavers corner.

So you’d rather we invest in Romania and Bulgaria than the uk?

Why?

 

[martcov]

So you’d rather we invest in Romania and Bulgaria than the uk?

Why?

Really? Where did I say that? Or are you making up things again?

 

[Grendel]

Really? Where did I say that? Or are you making up things again?

So Britain doesn’t contribute a portion of the £40 billion aid that’s going to these countries then?

 

[fernandopartridge]

Building a motorway from Bucarest to the Black Sea, modernising the rail connections, funding the Românian tourist office to enable them to promote Romania as a tourist destination throughout the EU . All of which in return brings jobs and prosperity to a poorer region. But you slag it. „I‘m alright Jack“ attitude.

To sum the EU regional development policy up as „cheap ski resorts for Germans“ shows your limited grasp of European cooperation and puts you firmly in the ill informed leavers corner.

Sorry but are you seriously suggesting that all that EU investment is just for the purpose of building up low GVA leisure and tourism industries? Aren't you backing up what Grendel is saying?

 

[fernandopartridge]

Off to the Gulag for him

 

[martcov]

Sorry but are you seriously suggesting that all that EU investment is just for the purpose of building up low GVA leisure and tourism industries? Aren't you backing up what Grendel is saying?

Not all, but a portion. It is not all about tourism. Example: The motorway from Bucarest links the Black Sea port of Constanta with the capital with a journey time of 2,5 hours. Good for the greater economy.

 

[martcov]

Off to the Gulag for him

Does Spain or the EUSSR do gulags? Or are you making things up?

 

[martcov]

So Britain doesn’t contribute a portion of the £40 billion aid that’s going to these countries then?

Britain contributes to funds which help the poorer regions. But, that is not why the NHS, schools or infrastructure is underfunded.

 

[Grendel]

Britain contributes to funds which help the poorer regions. But, that is not why the NHS, schools or infrastructure is underfunded.

But let’s clarify - you do think some of uk taxation should go to building infrastructure and ski resorts in these countries?

 

[martcov]

But let’s clarify - you do think some of uk taxation should go to building infrastructure and ski resorts in these countries?

Infrastructure and, if needed, ski resorts. We spend money on weapons which could fund other things we need. Investment in improving poorer parts of the EU is at least as important in ridding the continent of poverty and avoidance of war as weapon spending.

It is only a small portion of gdp and well invested medium to long term.

More dangerous is the orange idiot‘s plans for starting a trade war.

 

[Grendel]

Infrastructure and, if needed, ski resorts. We spend money on weapons which could fund other things we need. Investment in improving poorer parts of the EU is at least as important in ridding the continent of poverty and avoidance of war as weapon spending.

It is only a small portion of gdp and well invested medium to long term.

More dangerous is the orange idiot‘s plans for starting a trade war.

How is investing in Romania’s infrastructure good for the Uk taxpayer?

 

[martcov]

How is investing in Romania’s infrastructure good for the Uk taxpayer?

Potential future markets. One less poor country and therefore potentially a problem in a Europe. There was a revolution there not so long ago.

Peace and stability is better than, say, the iron curtain which cost a fortune as a „front line“ to defend in Europe.

One reason the EU exsists is to keep the peace through trade and therefore prosperity. We export to previous iron curtain countries so there is an economic return on building up the poorer countries.

The old system of nation states purely looking after themselves resulted in centuries of conflict ending with 2 world wars within a short space of time. Not good for any taxpayers. I’ll take mutual cooperation and shared aims any day over competing nation states.

 

[Grendel]

Potential future markets. One less poor country and therefore potentially a problem in a Europe. There was a revolution there not so long ago.

Peace and stability is better than, say, the iron curtain which cost a fortune as a „front line“ to defend in Europe.

One reason the EU exsists is to keep the peace through trade and therefore prosperity. We export to previous iron curtain countries so there is an economic return on building up the poorer countries.

The old system of nation states purely looking after themselves resulted in centuries of conflict ending with 2 world wars within a short space of time. Not good for any taxpayers. I’ll take mutual cooperation and shared aims any day over competing nation states.

So we are pouring millions into Romania to prevent a war with them? When did we last have a war with Romania?

You say peace through trade. So now you admit political and economic union has nothing to do with peace

So why are hard working uk taxpayers paying for ski resorts and roads? You think this a good thing - yes?

 

[martcov]

So we are pouring millions into Romania to prevent a war with them? When did we last have a war with Romania?

You say peace through trade. So now you admit political and economic union has nothing to do with peace

So why are hard working uk taxpayers paying for ski resorts and roads? You think this a good thing - yes?

Are we pouring millions in? I thought it was the EU. Romania was on Hitler’s side in the Second World War BTW. I don’t see any signs of a war between EU states, which was and is part of the reason the whole thing started.

Political and economic union forwards trade between countries and makes us wealthier.

I think paying some of GDP into European infrastructure and tourism projects is beneficial to tax payers for the reasons I have stated. Trying to run the country like a self contained business won’t help taxpayers long term. Only a clown would do that ( see Trump ).

 

[Grendel]

Are we pouring millions in? I thought it was the EU. Romania was on Hitler’s side in the Second World War BTW. I don’t see any signs of a war between EU states, which was and is part of the reason the whole thing started.

Political and economic union forwards trade between countries and makes us wealthier.

I think paying some of GDP into European infrastructure and tourism projects is beneficial to tax payers for the reasons I have stated. Trying to run the country like a self contained business won’t help taxpayers long term. Only a clown would do that ( see Trump ).

Can you please explain how economic union makes us wealthier? Why is aid beneficial by targeting only EU countries? I assume targeting Albania wouldn’t be? So no country is a threat or should benefit unless they are in the Club. How interesting,

So you single out trump as an isolationist in terms of foreign investment to trade partners. That suggests this is a unique policy only trump has perused and infact prior to trump USA policy included financial support in terms of infrastructure to other countries.

Do you have hard evidence to support these claims? I would also be interested to know if you believe USA will collapse die to these policies and why?

 

[martcov]

Can you please explain how economic union makes us wealthier? Why is aid beneficial by targeting only EU countries? I assume targeting Albania wouldn’t be? So no country is a threat or should benefit unless they are in the Club. How interesting,

So you single out trump as an isolationist in terms of foreign investment to trade partners. That suggests this is a unique policy only trump has perused and infact prior to trump USA policy included financial support in terms of infrastructure to other countries.

Do you have hard evidence to support these claims? I would also be interested to know if you believe USA will collapse die to these policies and why?

You want me to write a thesis? As far as I know Albania does get support.

There are countries working with the EU to comply with their aims. If you start working towards possible membership then you get help. E.g. Turkey. The current discussion is about help for Africa. 1,1 Billion live there and most are young. The EU will help there as well, if not we will face a massive migration crisis. We will anyway, but we have to try to get Africa going. Of course that is in the interest of EU taxpayers.

Trump is an isolationist. Unfortunately the USA will suffer for this. Before you say I know nothing, the stock market has lost billions in anticipation because of his failure to grasp O level economics.

The USA has provided aid to many countries as a form of „soft power“. This can be more cost effective than military force, but Trump thinks otherwise.

I believe the US economy will start faltering in about 5 years as a direct result of Trump‘s policies. The tax breaks for the middle class are limited and as the time limit closes in people will become more cautious.

The repayments on the national debt will increase because of his massive expenditure and his tax cuts. Interest rates will rise as the demand for finance grows.

I have not got the time to write a book on this. Sorry if I cannot be of further assistance.

 

[SkyblueBazza]

Give me an example of a swathe...

Quite a sizeable chunk of the Commonwealth for a start

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[SkyblueBazza]

The EU is a trading bloc.

WAS when we signed up for it...now it is much more & clearly wants to BECOME much more besides. Really the powers behind it want to reduce National Gov't to pretty much an extension of the local council!

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[SkyblueBazza]

Apparently, even the Mail admits that, the passport with access to the most countries is the German one. The British one is set to lose ground after Brexit.

As you say, having German and British is the best bet.

The most powerful passports are listed as Brexit threatens to restrict travel in the EU | Daily Mail Online

Don't actually say that, just another example of blinkered views & selective hearing by yourself

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[skybluetony176]

Really the powers behind it want to reduce National Gov't to pretty much an extension of the local council!

Name one EU members government that is going to allow that to happen.

 

[SkyblueBazza]

Ask the Daily Mail. They claim that, but it will lose the automatic right to live and work in 27 countries in one hit. Are you saying that one country is equal top? Top is top. One Rating considers the other one greater. Whatever. There certainly are not large swathes of the planet preferring the British one as was claimed. I hope to get the German one in a couple of months, assuming I pass the anti terrorism and anti criminal checks. So, I'm covered anyway.

Since when: -
A. Was the Daily Mail a reasonable source of information upon which to base an argument?
B. Did you start accepting anything the Daily Mail printed?

Or does it just suit your argument?

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[SkyblueBazza]

We are third with a bunch of EU countries and if they impose restrictions so will we (none will) so it’s a pathetic statement.

I’ve been to Russia and got through passport control quicker than the shambles that is Charles De Gaulle you clueless crank.

At present EU passports are accepted due to the British being lumped in. Give it 15yrs...I suspect NZ, Canada (to name but 2) will still welcome the British passport - but have little care for your EU one. It's just an opinion I guess...& no journo will convince me different

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[SkyblueBazza]

What’s horrifying is you actually believe this drivel.

The thing is Governments, & opposition lie through their teeth at least 50% of the time by misquoting or misrepresenting data. So this just comes over as a bitter, vengeful 'whistle-blow'. Nothing new but also no real credibility in my view.

Both sides lied

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[SkyblueBazza]

Well yeah, that’s the nature of a free trade area. It also makes its citizens richer than the alternative

Go tell that to the average Greek man in the street

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[jimmyhillsfanclub]

Name one EU members government that is going to allow that to happen.

Name one sovereign nation whose democratic opposition to the eu diktat that has been respected........

France? No. Holland? No. Ireland? No. Greece? No. UK? ....tbc.

 

[SkyblueBazza]

One anecdote doesn’t mean that Travelling to Russia is easier than traveling, say, within the Schengen area. You are hardly in a position to call anybody a clueless crank.

Buy we aren't one of the Schengen nations anyhow so it isn't going to make any difference whatsoever

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[SkyblueBazza]

There is no president of Luxemburg. It is a Grand Duchy.

Oh...that makes it alright then

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[SkyblueBazza]

You can tell Brexit is going down by the amount of BS flying around. It must be difficult to slag Corbyn off at the same time as saying the EU is a capitalist club and the EUSSR. Full time disinformation.

Oh dear...still in denial

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