The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (176 Viewers)

clint van damme · May 10, 2018

Earlsdon_Skyblue1 said:
That's not the point, this is different.

This is like something I don't think we have ever seen before.

and no... I am not saying we need to take holocaust action!

you're younger than me, but what you need to appreciate is I've heard this rhetoric about Indians, Irish, West Indians, Poles, and probably some I've forgotten, (too young to remember the anti Jewish riots but have read about them).

We've absorbed those cultures without too much bother. I would admit there is a slightly different dynamic but as I've said before no matter what rules and regulation's you put in place, if you want better control of the borders, it needs funding, probably not going to happen under a government that's reduced police numbers by 21,000 and called chief constables drama queens when they complained about it and said it would increase the risk of terrorist attack.

Earlsdon_Skyblue1 · May 10, 2018

clint van damme said:
you're younger than me, but what you need to appreciate is I've heard this rhetoric about Indians, Irish, West Indians, Poles, and probably some I've forgotten, (too young to remember the anti Jewish riots but have read about them).

We've absorbed those cultures without too much bother. I would admit there is a slightly different dynamic but as I've said before no matter what rules and regulation's you put in place, if you want better control of the borders, it needs funding, probably not going to happen under a government that's reduced police numbers by 21,000 and called chief constables drama queens when they complained about it and said it would increase the risk of terrorist attack.

I agree with you, and I respect that you are older and have seen things go bad before. That being said, I have seen stark changes in my own shorter lifetime which I think are really alarming. If anything, not being allowed to talk about that without being called racist could well push this shit underground and cause a worst backlash later down the line. The whole not being able to talk about it thing also saw many people vote with their pens at the ballot box I believe.

We do need to fund and control borders better, and none of the main parties will do that. It is one of the biggest issues and none of them care. As the EU gave permission for the bridge to be opened at the other end, people felt that cutting away from that might be the only way to do something. Given that this is all the power that they have, I don't think we can blame them, even if this might not solve the issue either.

On a broader scale, the thing that is crazy is that despite this vote, the main parties and the EU refuse to almost even recognise it and try to change themselves for the better of the people. They are taking literally no responsibility for this.

skybluetony176 · May 10, 2018

Earlsdon_Skyblue1 said:
No, I won't grow up and deal with it. Neither will many millions of others. You throw your toys out the pram because people voted to leave, but you are literally proving right now why people had a genuinely good reason to do it.

We are told we are to love that we are all different, but at the same time told we should be happy to lose that.

I don't even need to insult you and tell you that you're clueless about the bigger picture here. You've demonstrated all that yourself.

Who do you think is going to replace a workforce that no longer feels welcome here from the EU. The only people that will put up with shit from people like you will be immigrants from developing countries desperate to better themselves and large numbers of those will be Muslims who will want more mosques to accommodate their needs including a call for prayer. Presumably you’ll find someone to blame for that other than yourself as well.

How are you going to lose being different. Does more Muslims coming to the UK mean you have to convert to Islam? Maybe Bangladeshi people are forcing you to go to curry houses at gun point? No ones forcing you to drink Asian tea are they? You can still drink ditch water if you prefer. No ones making you buy a daily North African wheat based product called bread are they? No ones forcing you to eat chips made from an American vegetable are they? Or mow your French garden plants known as a lawn.

You seriously need to grow up. You don’t even understand what British culture is and where it was imported from so you’re probably the least qualified person on here to judge whether our identity is being lost or not. Our identity has been evolving since the first black Africans followed the receding ice flows and settled this country. All you’re witnessing is the continued evolvement of what’s always happened. The problem for you is that you lack the maturity and possibly intelligence to deal with that.

clint van damme · May 10, 2018

Earlsdon_Skyblue1 said:
I agree with you, and I respect that you are older and have seen things go bad before. That being said, I have seen stark changes in my own shorter lifetime which I think are really alarming. If anything, not being allowed to talk about that without being called racist could well push this shit underground and cause a worst backlash later down the line. The whole not being able to talk about it thing also saw many people vote with their pens at the ballot box I believe.

We do need to fund and control borders better, and none of the main parties will do that. It is one of the biggest issues and none of them care. As the EU gave permission for the bridge to be opened at the other end, people felt that cutting away from that might be the only way to do something. Given that this is all the power that they have, I don't think we can blame them, even if this might not solve the issue either.

On a broader scale, the thing that is crazy is that despite this vote, the main parties and the EU refuse to almost even recognise it and try to change themselves for the better of the people. They are taking literally no responsibility for this.

Two points to pick up on - firstly, "I respect that you are older and have seen things go bad before". I don't consider the cultures I've mentioned as bad, I think they've enriched us, ( though I may have the wrong end of the stick with what you meant there).

Second, I don't agree we can't talk about things without being called racist, immigration is discussed frequently on this board and I hear plenty of conversations about it in everyday life. As long as people don't start throwing around racial slurs then I think most people can discuss things in a reasonable manner.

And you keep going on about the EU, but we'll see if this government, or any future government, use the powers at their disposal to implement stricter immigration laws post Brexit, I don't think they will.

SkyblueBazza · May 10, 2018

martcov said:
We may lose the passport for financial services- which is what we are best at. Manufacturing is not our biggest plus.

You see it as we may win some, lose some.

Even if, a big if, we end up about the same on trade deals, we have gained absolutely nothing by leaving (TRADEWISE...BUT THERE IS MORE TO LIFE!). We have split the country (THE MAJORITY VOTE SAID LEAVE...WE ALL KNOW THAT - BUT IT WAS CLOSE...SO THE COUNTRY WAS ALREADY SPLIT=NO CHANGE), increased bureaucracy and probably lost a lot of gdp potential because of years of uncertainty and the transition period- which could last years if we cannot agree with ourselves what our final position will be (ALL BIG IFS & MAYBES).

What a waste of time and money (SOME WOULD ARGUE & PRODUCE FIGURES SPECULATING LIKEWISE SHOULD THE VOTE HAVE BEEN TO REMAIN).

I think you are simply scared of change because of the uncertainty you feel

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Earlsdon_Skyblue1 · May 10, 2018

skybluetony176 said:
Who do you think is going to replace a workforce that no longer feels welcome here from the EU. The only people that will put up with shit from people like you will be immigrants from developing countries desperate to better themselves and large numbers of those will be Muslims who will want more mosques to accommodate their needs including a call for prayer. Presumably you’ll find someone to blame for that other than yourself as well.

How are you going to lose being different. Does more Muslims coming to the UK mean you have to convert to Islam? Maybe Bangladeshi people are forcing you to go to curry houses at gun point? No ones forcing you to drink Asian tea are they? You can still drink ditch water if you prefer. No ones making you buy a daily North African wheat based product called bread are they? No ones forcing you to eat chips made from an American vegetable are they? Or mow your French garden plants known as a lawn.

You seriously need to grow up. You don’t even understand what British culture is and where it was imported from so you’re probably the least qualified person on here to judge whether our identity is being lost or not. Our identity has been evolving since the first black Africans followed the receding ice flows and settled this country. All you’re witnessing is the continued evolvement of what’s always happened. The problem for you is that you lack the maturity and possibly intelligence to deal with that.

I don't give any shit to immigrants, I'm married to one. In fact, the only time she got upset in all of this was due to an article in the remain paper - The Independent - telling her she wasn't welcome anymore. This is common actually. People who lost the vote wanting to make it sound as nasty as possible because they cannot hack it.

You have literally no idea what you are talking about. You get all upset about this and then have an absolute meltdown crying racist because some people have a problem with the disintegration of our society and culture. News flash, growing crime levels in the UK are not just down to smaller police numbers, they are also largely due to people coming into the country with third world values. Not that you will accept that.

Trying to tell me to grow up because I see a genuine issue will just see you lose more and more votes in the future. I understand a lot more about British culture than you, as you seemingly think it doesn't even exist anyway. What is left you want eroded for the sake of globalisation. How is that even a sane argument?

You try to belittle my intelligence, but by openly acting as if you think there is nothing wrong, you are far too stupid to even have an open debate about this. You're showing to everyone that you are ignorant and in denial, and you are also proving why people might have a leg to stand on when they voted to leave.

Earlsdon_Skyblue1 · May 10, 2018

clint van damme said:
Two points to pick up on - firstly, "I respect that you are older and have seen things go bad before". I don't consider the cultures I've mentioned as bad, I think they've enriched us, ( though I may have the wrong end of the stick with what you meant there).

Second, I don't agree we can't talk about things without being called racist, immigration is discussed frequently on this board and I hear plenty of conversations about it in everyday life. As long as people don't start throwing around racial slurs then I think most people can discuss things in a reasonable manner.

And you keep going on about the EU, but we'll see if this government, or any future government, use the powers at their disposal to implement stricter immigration laws post Brexit, I don't think they will.

Some cultures have enriched us, but I don't see this latest particular culture as particularly enriching for positive reasons.

We can talk openly as we are behind keyboards, it's much harder in public. I know this is Sweden, but they now have about eleventy billion laws on what you can and can't openly say without it being classed as hate speech. It's everywhere as well, not just in that example in Sweden. The token response to saying something which might offend is that it is now 'hate speech'.

I agree for the record, our government or future governments will probably not fund the borders properly. That's across all parties. That doesn't mean that opening the door at the other end means nothing though.

skybluetony176 · May 10, 2018

Earlsdon_Skyblue1 said:
I don't give any shit to immigrants, I'm married to one. In fact, the only time she got upset in all of this was due to an article in the remain paper - The Independent - telling her she wasn't welcome anymore. This is common actually. People who lost the vote wanting to make it sound as nasty as possible because they cannot hack it.

You have literally no idea what you are talking about. You get all upset about this and then have an absolute meltdown crying racist because some people have a problem with the disintegration of our society and culture. News flash, growing crime levels in the UK are not just down to smaller police numbers, they are also largely due to people coming into the country with third world values. Not that you will accept that.

Trying to tell me to grow up because I see a genuine issue will just see you lose more and more votes in the future. I understand a lot more about British culture than you, as you seemingly think it doesn't even exist anyway. What is left you want eroded for the sake of globalisation. How is that even a sane argument?

You try to belittle my intelligence, but by openly acting as if you think there is nothing wrong, you are far too stupid to even have an open debate about this. You're showing to everyone that you are ignorant and in denial, and you are also proving why people might have a leg to stand on when they voted to leave.

I bet she’s white and Christian. The path you’re on will get to her eventually if that path wins. Hatred breeds hatred. There always have to be someone to hate and to blame for some people so carry on the path you are and her time will come.

British culture is shaped by diversity and outside influences whether that’s been because we’ve been invaded by Italians, Germans and French (or if you prefer Romans, Saxons and Norman’s). Or from us invading other nations and exporting their culture back, we’ve just celebrated that by the way with the commonwealth games. Even our national religion is an eastern invader. Jesus wasn’t born in London you know. Always has been and always will be our culture. I embrace that. It would be ignorant not to.

Astute · May 10, 2018

skybluetony176 said:
I wouldn’t be asleep on a Friday afternoon. I couldn't sleep through church bells either and there’s more chance of those waking me on a Sunday morning. Still don’t have a problem with either and still don’t see what it has to do with the EU. Other than a pattern of anti EU feeling turning into anti Islam feeling such as the out means out, I know what I voted for type Facebook pages and their new enemy. I look forward to the days when my mum gets accused of being a bomb maker again like she did in the seventies because of her Irish accent such is the direction some people seem intent on taking us, backwards. We’ve sorted the EU out let’s move onto the Muslims, next it will be lumping Indians in with Pakistanis, followed by an anti African movement followed by an anti anyone not white, followed by anyone with a non British accent. Funnily enough my mum does have a British accent and is a Protestant. Didn’t stop kids ill informed by parents asking me if she was an IRA member when I was at school though. And this is the nonsense people want to drag us back to. Funnily enough they all seemed to have voted leave as well in my experience.

At least you are consistent.

It won't impact your life so it isn't a problem. And you don't care about the people it will impact.

As I said I am a shift worker. I try to get a bit of sleep before I do a 12 hour night shift. Would that be possible if there was a noise at the level of a rock concert outside? Are there any shift workers in the vicinity? And do people really need to be told when to go to the mosque when it is the same time each week?

And strangely enough you are the only one on here to have mentioned the EU as being to blame.

martcov · May 10, 2018

SkyblueBazza said:
I think you are simply scared of change because of the uncertainty you feel

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk

No. I just don’t see the point of jumping off a cliff.

martcov · May 10, 2018

Earlsdon_Skyblue1 said:
I don't give any shit to immigrants, I'm married to one. In fact, the only time she got upset in all of this was due to an article in the remain paper - The Independent - telling her she wasn't welcome anymore. This is common actually. People who lost the vote wanting to make it sound as nasty as possible because they cannot hack it.

You have literally no idea what you are talking about. You get all upset about this and then have an absolute meltdown crying racist because some people have a problem with the disintegration of our society and culture. News flash, growing crime levels in the UK are not just down to smaller police numbers, they are also largely due to people coming into the country with third world values. Not that you will accept that.

Trying to tell me to grow up because I see a genuine issue will just see you lose more and more votes in the future. I understand a lot more about British culture than you, as you seemingly think it doesn't even exist anyway. What is left you want eroded for the sake of globalisation. How is that even a sane argument?

You try to belittle my intelligence, but by openly acting as if you think there is nothing wrong, you are far too stupid to even have an open debate about this. You're showing to everyone that you are ignorant and in denial, and you are also proving why people might have a leg to stand on when they voted to leave.

You tend to follow the anti mad Merkel line because she let a million of this other religion into the EU. Now you suggest that these people are responsible for growing crime numbers.

Germany has just seen the largest reduction in crime figures for 30years. Despite clowns like Farage equating terrorism to Merkel’s legacy. The crime figure decrease could just as easily be Merkel’s legacy.

Paradoxically, according to polls, people in Germany feel less safe from crime. Shows what effect propaganda has in a post truth world - led by liars like Farage, Trump, Breitbart, Tommy Robinson, Info Wars etc..

How do you explain this crime decrease in Germany and increase in the UK when Germany has had a large sudden increase in people of this other religion?

IMO the resentment towards foreigners and people of other colours or religions, caused by the leave propaganda, has created a lack of respect for people in general and for the lives of „opponents“.

martcov · May 10, 2018

Earlsdon_Skyblue1 said:
Mosque in Swedish town gets green light for calls to prayer

What are people's views on this?

I am allowed up to 110 Dcb by my pub licence until 10:00 pm.

If people like me can have that, why not other groups? If it was a pub licence you would not be asking us for our opinions.

martcov · May 10, 2018

Earlsdon_Skyblue1 said:
The EU have supported open borders, so it has a lot to do with them.

As for your opinion on the matter, many people hold the same as yours, which is why so many voted against all that in 2016.

No they haven’t. They are trying to strengthen the exterior EU borders.

Shows how propaganda works. Tell a lie long enough... put fear into people and they do what you want them to do..

You’ve been played.

There is a difference between the UN Charter, the Geneva convention and the EU. The EU abides by refugee conventions, but doesn’t have an open exterior border.

The open borders of Schengen are internal borders, not the exterior ones. You first have to get into the Schengen area.

Earlsdon_Skyblue1 · May 10, 2018

martcov said:
No they haven’t. They are trying to strengthen the exterior EU borders.

Shows how propaganda works. Tell a lie long enough... put fear into people and they do what you want them to do..

You’ve been played.

There is a difference between the UN Charter, the Geneva convention and the EU. The EU abides by refugee conventions, but doesn’t have an open exterior border.

The open borders of Schengen are internal borders, not the exterior ones. You first have to get into the Schengen area.

You are the most clueless person I have ever had the pleasure of interacting with (although there are some close runners up on here).

You think the EU have strong exterior borders, you think Merkel has lowered the crime rate, and you think pub music is the same as an Islamic call to prayer.

You say I've been played. I cannot actually fathom how you and some others live on the same planet as the rest of us.

martcov · May 10, 2018

Earlsdon_Skyblue1 said:
You are the most clueless person I have ever had the pleasure of interacting with (although there are some close runners up on here).

You think the EU have strong exterior borders, you think Merkel has lowered the crime rate, and you think pub music is the same as an Islamic call to prayer.

You say I've been played. I cannot actually fathom how you and some others live on the same planet as the rest of us.

I said the EU is strengthening it’s exterior borders. It is.

The crime rate has lowered whilst Merkel is in charge. It has.

Whether because of Merkel or not. A terrorist attack occurred in Germany and Farage called it „Merkel’s legacy“, whether it was to do with Merkel or not.

Which is why I said that by the same - flawed - logic, you could call that Merkel’s legacy.

You have been played, and no, I certainly don’t live on planet Breitbart/ Fria Taden as you do.

Astute · May 10, 2018

martcov said:
I am allowed up to 110 Dcb by my pub licence until 10:00 pm.

If people like me can have that, why not other groups? If it was a pub licence you would not be asking us for our opinions.

Is that 110 decibels outside your pub?

martcov · May 10, 2018

Astute said:
Is that 110 decibels outside your pub?

I’ll check on that when I get home... Monday.. am in Coventry now...

martcov · May 10, 2018

Astute said:
Is that 110 decibels outside your pub?

Sorry. Yes you are right - 110 is the edge of sound level regarding noise. About like a lorry driving past. Louder would be a press hammer. The allowed limit as regards what the neighbors hear is much lower, and I don’t have it with me.

So the Mosque would have the limit of normal noise- above that would be like circular saws in a saw mill.

martcov · May 10, 2018

Astute said:
Is that 110 decibels outside your pub?

I am out of date and wrong. The limit inside was 90 and is now 85.

The work place regulations - not just for pubs, discos etc. - see below.

„Verordnung vor allem in den Bereichen zur Anwendung, wo laute Musik gespielt wird, also in Clubs, Discotheken und oder bei sonstigen Musikveranstaltungen in Gastronomie und Hotellerie. Für die Beschäftigten sind nunmehr maximal 85 Dezibel (bisher 90 Dezibel) dB(A) Musiklautstärke an ihren Arbeitsplätzen erlaubt. Der Arbeitgeber ist verpflichtet eine Gefährdungsbeurteilung in seinem Betrieb durchzuführen, diese zu dokumentieren und entsprechende Schutzmaßnahmen nach dem Stand der Technik festzulegen.“

When it goes over this, it must be logged and appropriate measures have to be taken to reduce the noise level for workers.

The Imam should perhaps wear ear muffs.... ;-) or the population )

Astute · May 10, 2018

martcov said:
Sorry. Yes you are right - 110 is the edge of sound level regarding noise. About like a lorry driving past. Louder would be a press hammer. The allowed limit as regards what the neighbors hear is much lower, and I don’t have it with me.

So the Mosque would have the limit of normal noise- above that would be like circular saws in a saw mill.

Here is a short list of common noises and their decibel levels:

Aircraft at take-off (180)
Fireworks (140)
Snowmobile (120)
Chain saw (110)
Amplified music (110)
Lawn mower (90)
Noisy office (90)
Vacuum cleaner (80)
City traffic (80)
Normal conversation (60)
Refrigerator humming (40)
Whisper (20)
Leaves rustling (10)
Calm breathing (10)

Astute · May 10, 2018

martcov said:
The Imam should perhaps wear ear muffs.... ;-) or the population )

This bit made me laugh :smuggrin:

I used to work in H&S. 110db is an extreme amount.

85 Decibels (dB) - the "Action Level" where hearing protection is required. 90 dB - the OSHA, 8 hour average exposure limit. 100 dB - exposures longer than 15 minutes are not recommended. 110 dB - regular exposure of more than 1 minute risks permanent hearing loss.

SkyblueBazza · May 10, 2018

So your 'fair minded' approach is that the EU is rightly sticking to it's guns, but the UK should spell everything out in finest detail?

Get real!

martcov said:
No you haven’t. You just made that up. They are sticking to their guns. Rightly so.