The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (248 Viewers)

[martcov]

So we need strict controls to stop Europe getting overcrowded but do nothing to stop the UK from getting overcrowded?

England is one of the most densely populated countries in the world. Where does it end?

Didn’t say that. I said I agree with free movement in the EU and enforcement of any future immigration deals on the EU exterior border. With the case of illegal immigration we need a unified approach and we need a legal system for admitting some immigrants to the EU.

FOM in the EU is reciprocal and is used by 1,5 million Brits living in other countries in the EU. FOM is of benefit to our economy which until recently was a leading world economy. Still is, but slowing.

Take away unskilled or low skilled young EU workers and the economy will slow especially in service industries and agriculture.

 

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[Astute]

Is it?

Which Country is the World's Most Densely Populated?

Think your country is crowded? These maps reveal the truth about population density across Europe

List of countries and dependencies by population density - Wikipedia

Much has changed since 2011.

The bottom one is more accurate. Puts the UK as 15th in the world. But England is much more populated than the UK as a whole.

England Population 2018 | Population UK

England is second in the European union after Malta.

 

[Astute]

Didn’t say that. I said I agree with free movement in the EU and enforcement of any future immigration deals on the EU exterior border. With the case of illegal immigration we need a unified approach and we need a legal system for admitting some immigrants to the EU.

FOM in the EU is reciprocal and is used by 1,5 million Brits living in other countries in the EU. FOM is of benefit to our economy which until recently was a leading world economy. Still is, but slowing.

Take away unskilled or low skilled young EU workers and the economy will slow especially in service industries and agriculture.

So what do you say about a trade deal with India where they will only do a deal if visa controls are totally changed?

 

[Astute]

No wonder I'm f**ked with racing titinus.

I prefer them outside and on the upper part of women

 

[skybluetony176]

And then you said this after using it to have an anti Muslim rant.

I voiced my own opinion making a comparison to church bells. Never even mentioned the word volume or related a word I never used specifically to have a go at you. I certainly didn’t have an anti Muslim rant. You’re talking nonsense again.

 

[chiefdave]

Whoops! Leave.EU have been fined £70K by the electoral commission, who said it would have been much more but for limits imposed on them, for breaches of electoral law. Their chief exec has also been referred to the police.

 

[martcov]

So what do you say about a trade deal with India where they will only do a deal if visa controls are totally changed?

I am not bothered either way. Main things are 1. it’s a good deal and 2. it is enforced correctly

 

[martcov]

Much has changed since 2011.

The bottom one is more accurate. Puts the UK as 15th in the world. But England is much more populated than the UK as a whole.

England Population 2018 | Population UK

England is second in the European union after Malta.

Is it more accurate, or are they looking at it from a different way? As in the above links the population is concentrated in different areas or cities. Large parts of Europe are not easily inhabitable or unattractive for jobs. You keep saying Germany is not so highly populated- which is true - but most people live in certain cities or regions and they are as populous as anywhere in the UK. I, like most people in my city, live in a flat. Houses with front and back gardens are rare and expensive in big cities. In NRW there are cities and towns which just run into oneanother.

 

[Grendel]

Whoops! Leave.EU have been fined £70K by the electoral commission, who said it would have been much more but for limits imposed on them, for breaches of electoral law. Their chief exec has also been referred to the police.

Hardly earth shattering is it?

 

[Astute]

I voiced my own opinion making a comparison to church bells. Never even mentioned the word volume or related a word I never used specifically to have a go at you. I certainly didn’t have an anti Muslim rant. You’re talking nonsense again.

Try reading again. Noise doesn't bother you on a Friday afternoon. And then look at your anti muslim rant aimed at others.

You don't care at all on how loud the calling is. Although top hearing protection would be needed normally. Yeah OK.

 

[Astute]

I am not bothered either way. Main things are 1. it’s a good deal and 2. it is enforced correctly

Enforced strong external borders and what India wants are at opposite ends.

 

[martcov]

Enforced strong external borders and what India wants are at opposite ends.

How? If they are allowed, under an agreement, so many visas, and the border force lets them in, but not people without a visa, how is that opposite to what they want? If they had absolute FOM and there was a strong border stopping illegal entry from other countries, that would be exactly in their interests.

 

[Astute]

Is it more accurate, or are they looking at it from a different way? As in the above links the population is concentrated in different areas or cities. Large parts of Europe are not easily inhabitable or unattractive for jobs. You keep saying Germany is not so highly populated- which is true - but most people live in certain cities or regions and they are as populous as anywhere in the UK. I, like most people in my city, live in a flat. Houses with front and back gardens are rare and expensive in big cities. In NRW there are cities and towns which just run into oneanother.

More accurate. More up to date.

So England doesn't have London where you can struggle to find open land? Most people in England also live in built up areas. Most of the rest of England is taken up by roads and farm land. All of our cities and towns are much closer as we don't have the space to spread them out.

I am going to France straight after we have won at Wembley to visit family. In France you can drive for hours without seeing a built up area. Try doing that in England.

 

[Astute]

How? If they are allowed, under an agreement, so many visas, and the border force lets them in, but not people without a visa, how is that opposite to what they want? If they had absolute FOM and there was a strong border stopping illegal entry from other countries, that would be exactly in their interests.

Do you know the deal that hasn't been made yet? India wants visas made much easier. That is the biggest sticking point. But you would think after reading on here that a deal will be easy once the UK has left the EU.

 

[skybluetony176]

Try reading again. Noise doesn't bother you on a Friday afternoon. And then look at your anti muslim rant aimed at others.

You don't care at all on how loud the calling is. Although top hearing protection would be needed normally. Yeah OK.

So nothing like you said and then an anti anti Muslim rant not an anti Muslim rant. So exactly like I said, you’re making things up again.

 

[martcov]

Do you know the deal that hasn't been made yet? India wants visas made much easier. That is the biggest sticking point. But you would think after reading on here that a deal will be easy once the UK has left the EU.

I think India is a growing economy with a growing middle class who have spending power.

If we leave the EU we need new export markets. India knows this and already made clear that it won’t be a pushover in negotiations. We have the weaker hand.

 

[Astute]

So nothing like you said and then an anti anti Muslim rant not an anti Muslim rant. So exactly like I said, you’re making things up again.

Bollocks. Just you twisting words as usual.

 

[Astute]

I think India is a growing economy with a growing middle class who have spending power.

If we leave the EU we need new export markets. India knows this and already made clear that it won’t be a pushover in negotiations. We have the weaker hand.

Which is what I am saying. It will be difficult to get 27 countries to agree with what they want. And I can't see the UK being able to make a deal either. So far it has taken 11 years to get nowhere.

 

[skybluetony176]

Bollocks. Just you twisting words as usual.

What I’ve written is there in black and white. I’ve clearly pointed out and been critical of the escalation of anti anything certain people don’t deem British. It’s started with anti EU has already shifted to anti Islam and that will keep shifting because hatred of this type only breeds an escalation of hatred. How you’ve somehow managed to mistake this for an “anti Muslim rant” quite literally beggars belief.

 

[skybluetony176]

Which is what I am saying. It will be difficult to get 27 countries to agree with what they want. And I can't see the UK being able to make a deal either. So far it has taken 11 years to get nowhere.

According to the head of the Indian chamber of commerce to the EU one country has been the stumbling block not the other 26. Now that one country is leaving he believes that they can make an agreement with the EU.

 

[Astute]

What I’ve written is there in black and white. I’ve clearly pointed out and been critical of the escalation of anti anything certain people don’t deem British. It’s started with anti EU has already shifted to anti Islam and that will keep shifting because hatred of this type only breeds an escalation of hatred. How you’ve somehow managed to mistake this for an “anti Muslim rant” quite literally beggars belief.

So lets get back to the truth.

Church bells don't bother you on a Friday afternoon so a calling on a Friday afternoon wouldn't bother you. So there is no reason why the calling shouldn't happen in a built up area of Sweden.

Correct?

Church bells go up to 85db. That rate doesn't even need hearing protection at work. Calling 110db. Loud enough to cause permanent damage after 1 minute. As you call the same......

And you know exactly what I meant by your anti muslim rant. Yet all you are doing is point scoring. Absolutely pointless. You bring absolutely nothing to a debate.

 

[fernandopartridge]

According to the head of the Indian chamber of commerce to the EU one country has been the stumbling block not the other 26. Now that one country is leaving he believes that they can make an agreement with the EU.

Probably because generally speaking, that one country in the EU is the destination for more Indians already than the rest combined:

Statistics of Indian Population abroad, Non-resident Indian and Person of Indian Origin

Nothing wrong with the UK wanting some mechanism for managing those numbers if it can.

 

[Astute]

According to the head of the Indian chamber of commerce to the EU one country has been the stumbling block not the other 26. Now that one country is leaving he believes that they can make an agreement with the EU.

And the EU says.........

 

[skybluetony176]

Probably because generally speaking, that one country in the EU is the destination for more Indians already than the rest combined:

Statistics of Indian Population abroad, Non-resident Indian and Person of Indian Origin

Nothing wrong with the UK wanting some mechanism for managing those numbers if it can.

Flies in the face of people falling over themselves to deals with us and India being one of the first countries the Brexit campaign fell over itself to use as an example of a country we could deal with once free of the EU. The reality seems the opposite certainly where India is concerned in that brexit is going to free the EU to make trade deals without us vetoing them. We could yet actually end up with a worse trade deal than we had as EU members with India while the EU’s trade agreement could be freed up with India. The important question is is this going to be a pattern?

India in no rush to do a trade deal with post-Brexit Britain

The Indian high commissioners comments contradict not only the leave campaign but specifically Liam Fox.

Another interesting read which is pointing out deal preservation post brexit is going to be more important than the more “glamorous” new deals. Smacks of biting of your nose to spite your face.

After Brexit, which trade deals should negotiators prioritise?

 

[skybluetony176]

And the EU says.........

You tell me. It was all in a link you provided as proof that India can’t make a deal with the EU. Clearly you only read the headline and not the article because the article said the opposite what you were claiming pointing out that the U.K. veto was the reason a deal couldn’t be made not that the other 26 partners couldn’t agree. Which was surprising. Given that the EU is apparently a dictatorship that we have no say in. Apparently.

 

[fernandopartridge]

Flies in the face of people falling over themselves to deals with us and India being one of the first countries the Brexit campaign fell over itself to use as an example of a country we could deal with once free of the EU. The reality seems the opposite certainly where India is concerned in that brexit is going to free the EU to make trade deals without us vetoing them. We could yet actually end up with a worse trade deal than we had as EU members with India while the EU’s trade agreement could be freed up with India. The important question is is this going to be a pattern?

We don't have a trade deal with India whilst we are in the EU, so how could we have anything worse after Brexit?

 

[martcov]

We don't have a trade deal with India whilst we are in the EU, so how could we have anything worse after Brexit?

Will we have a deal after we leave, if we are not going to alter our „mechanisms“ on immigration?. Now India sends goods via us to the EU. The point of leaving the EU is to make great deals. Global Britain etc etc. If that isn’t going to happen, why are we doing this crap?

 

[skybluetony176]

We don't have a trade deal with India whilst we are in the EU, so how could we have anything worse after Brexit?

Not true. We currently have a GSP arrangement with India as members of the EU. We already enjoy a large free trade agreement with India on this basis. One of the major components the company I work for uses we import from an Indian company based in Hyderabad and we do that Tariff free currently. We’re very edgy on what happens next.

So how could we have anything worse? WTO rules for starters. Anything less than a continuation of the current GSP arrangement that we’re leaving for seconds.

 

[Grendel]

Not true. We currently have a GSP arrangement with India as members of the EU. We already enjoy a large free trade agreement with India on this basis. One of the major components the company I work for uses we import from an Indian company based in Hyderabad and we do that Tariff free currently. We’re very edgy on what happens next.

So how could we have anything worse? WTO rules for starters. Anything less than a continuation of the current GSP arrangement that we’re leaving for seconds.

Well no as some goods attract collosal costs and import penalties

 

[skybluetony176]

Well no as some goods attract collosal costs and import penalties

Some goods, yes. All goods, no. So when FP says we don’t have an agreement with India you agree he’s incorrect then? Because as you quite rightly point out Some goods do attract tariffs. Arms and luxury goods IIRC. Good that mechanise industry such as we buy at work don’t.

 

[Grendel]

Some goods, yes. All goods, no. So when FP says we don’t have an agreement with India you agree he’s incorrect then? Because as you quite rightly point out Some goods do attract tariffs. Arms and luxury goods IIRC. Good that mechanise industry such as we buy at work don’t.

No because we don’t have a formal trade agreement so he’s correct.

As he pointed out we are the significant partner to India in the EU and a removal of it will ha e far greater implication for their industry if we went to WTO terms.

 

[Astute]

Flies in the face of people falling over themselves to deals with us and India being one of the first countries the Brexit campaign fell over itself to use as an example of a country we could deal with once free of the EU. The reality seems the opposite certainly where India is concerned in that brexit is going to free the EU to make trade deals without us vetoing them. We could yet actually end up with a worse trade deal than we had as EU members with India while the EU’s trade agreement could be freed up with India. The important question is is this going to be a pattern?

India in no rush to do a trade deal with post-Brexit Britain

The Indian high commissioners comments contradict not only the leave campaign but specifically Liam Fox.

Another interesting read which is pointing out deal preservation post brexit is going to be more important than the more “glamorous” new deals. Smacks of biting of your nose to spite your face.

After Brexit, which trade deals should negotiators prioritise?

This post shows that you don't have a clue about what you are talking about. And mart agrees with you :smuggrin:

 

[Grendel]

This post shows that you don't have a clue about what you are talking about. And mart agrees with you :smuggrin:

His post on GSP certainly does!

 

[Astute]

Will we have a deal after we leave, if we are not going to alter our „mechanisms“ on immigration?. Now India sends goods via us to the EU. The point of leaving the EU is to make great deals. Global Britain etc etc. If that isn’t going to happen, why are we doing this crap?

This old one again. India used to send most to us to send on to the rest of the EU. Used to.

Even the EU admits that it is going to be very difficult to get a trade deal with India. But on here you would think that it is a done deal once the UK has left.

 

[Astute]

Some goods, yes. All goods, no. So when FP says we don’t have an agreement with India you agree he’s incorrect then? Because as you quite rightly point out Some goods do attract tariffs. Arms and luxury goods IIRC. Good that mechanise industry such as we buy at work don’t.

Why don't you check what you are saying.

And would you like to show us the details of this deal that has been done that you say about?