The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (217 Viewers)

[Grendel]

This old one again. India used to send most to us to send on to the rest of the EU. Used to.

Even the EU admits that it is going to be very difficult to get a trade deal with India. But on here you would think that it is a done deal once the UK has left.

What Mart and his mate have failed to see is that India will be disadvantaged when we leave the Eu as there trade will be subject to WTO terms unless they agree a trade deal with us.

The Eu also will only apply this preferential agreement to support developing countries. So if Mart is correct and India economy grows it will at some point lose that status.

 

---

[skybluetony176]

This old one again. India used to send most to us to send on to the rest of the EU. Used to.

Even the EU admits that it is going to be very difficult to get a trade deal with India. But on here you would think that it is a done deal once the UK has left.

You provided the link you idiot as to why India can’t do a deal with the EU and it’s because of us. Your link not mine.

 

[skybluetony176]

His post on GSP certainly does!

So are you saying GSP is the same as WTO? Worse than WTO? Better than WTO? It’s better isn’t it.

 

[Grendel]

You provided the link you idiot as to why India can’t do a deal with the EU and it’s because of us. Your link not mine.

The Eu won’t ever agree one as some countries have a huge issue with its punitive tax on vehicle imports. There is no incentive to remove these in Europe as they actually have very little trade with India.

 

[Astute]

What Mart and his mate have failed to see is that India will be disadvantaged when we leave the Eu as there trade will be subject to WTO terms unless they agree a trade deal with us.

The Eu also will only apply this preferential agreement to support developing countries. So if Mart is correct and India economy grows it will at some point lose that status.

And we won't agree on a trade deaal as they are after what we won't agree to. Just like it looks as though the EU won't.

 

[Grendel]

So are you saying GSP is the same as WTO? Worse than WTO? Better than WTO? It’s better isn’t it.

For us no obviously not!

 

[Astute]

So are you saying GSP is the same as WTO? Worse than WTO? Better than WTO? It’s better isn’t it.

I thought you knew everything on the subject

 

[skybluetony176]

What Mart and his mate have failed to see is that India will be disadvantaged when we leave the Eu as there trade will be subject to WTO terms unless they agree a trade deal with us.

The Eu also will only apply this preferential agreement to support developing countries. So if Mart is correct and India economy grows it will at some point lose that status.

Again you’re only confirming that GSP is better than WTO and FP is wrong to assume that we don’t currently have a deal with India as EU members so therefore WTO couldn’t be worse. It’s a lot worse. You know it and I know it. It’s just a shame you’re to childish to admit it in those words.

 

[Astute]

You provided the link you idiot as to why India can’t do a deal with the EU and it’s because of us. Your link not mine.

Me an idiot?

You seem to have missed out the big part on the same article on the difficulties on the EU making a deal with India. That is why you are clueless.

 

[Grendel]

Again you’re only confirming that GSP is better than WTO and FP is wrong to assume that we don’t currently have a deal with India as EU members so therefore WTO couldn’t be worse. It’s a lot worse. You know it and I know it. It’s just a shame you’re to childish to admit it in those words.

No Tony it’s worse if it’s removed for India not us. You realise it’s a form of aid to developing countries by offering them a preferential deal on trade against normal Eu protectionism?

 

[Astute]

Again you’re only confirming that GSP is better than WTO and FP is wrong to assume that we don’t currently have a deal with India as EU members so therefore WTO couldn’t be worse. It’s a lot worse. You know it and I know it. It’s just a shame you’re to childish to admit it in those words.

So I'm an idiot and someone else is childish. And all because you are wrong and keep digging a deeper hole.

Can we have a proper debate with you now? You might learn something.

 

[skybluetony176]

For us no obviously not!

So losing the GSP arrangement and reverting back to WTO will be better for us? How?

 

[skybluetony176]

No Tony it’s worse if it’s removed for India not us. You realise it’s a form of aid to developing countries by offering them a preferential deal on trade against normal Eu protectionism?

Why is it worse? You’re using empty rhetoric not making a point.

I’m fully aware of what GSP is thank you and do you really think we as the EU would be offering it if we didn’t benefit from it also?

Unless we continue with the current GSP we’ll revert to WTO. Import tariffs on vehicles will remain unchanged but all the benefits of GSP for other goods will be lost. Maybe you can explain how that will be better for us?

From the article Astute linked that he thought was saying the opposite to what it was and the article I linked earlier today people who matter in India are more excited about new opportunity with the EU when we leave than they are concerned about losing trade with us. The EU is one of India’s biggest trading partners with or without us and that is who they’re going to prioritise after brexit. We’ll be an afterthought at best. Contrary to what the leave campaign said and continue to say.

 

[Astute]

Why. You’re using empty rhetoric not making a point.

I’m fully aware of what GSP is thank you and do you really think we as the EU would be offering it if we didn’t benefit from it also?

Unless we continue with the current GSP we’ll revert to WTO. Import tariffs on vehicles will remain unchanged but all the benefits of GSP for other goods will be lost. Maybe you can explain how that will be better for us?

From the article Astute linked that he thought was saying the opposite to what it was and the article I linked earlier today people who matter in India are more excited about new opportunity with the EU when we leave than they are concerned about losing trade with us. The EU is one of India’s biggest trading partners with or without us and that is who they’re going to prioritise after brexit. We’ll be an afterthought at best. Contrary to what the leave campaign said and continue to say.

Had enough time to research what you was talking about?

So how about bringing up the link you are on about. Then we can all read the EU bit again.

 

[skybluetony176]

So I'm an idiot and someone else is childish. And all because you are wrong and keep digging a deeper hole.

Can we have a proper debate with you now? You might learn something.

FP said we don’t have a trade agreement with India. I’ve pointed out that we do by way of a GSP arrangement as members of the EU. Tell me how I’m wrong? Even Grendull acknowledges that we have a GSP arrangement not no arrangement as FP claimed even if he is attempting to underplay the benefit of that to us. Quite frankly if you’ve been unable to grasp that you are an idiot.

 

[skybluetony176]

Had enough time to research what you was talking about?

So how about bringing up the link you are on about. Then we can all read the EU bit again.

Try looking back through your own posts. Like I’ve repeatedly told you it was your link not mine.

 

[Astute]

Try looking back through your own posts. Like I’ve repeatedly told you it was your link not mine.

You are the one insulting people and lying. I am calling you a liar. You want to make up insults. I will tell the truth.

 

[Astute]

FP said we don’t have a trade agreement with India. I’ve pointed out that we do by way of a GSP arrangement as members of the EU. Tell me how I’m wrong? Even Grendull acknowledges that we have a GSP arrangement not no arrangement as FP claimed even if he is attempting to underplay the benefit of that to us. Quite frankly if you’ve been unable to grasp that you are an idiot.

So an arrangement is a trade agreement?

I suppose your mum is your dad.

 

[skybluetony176]

The Eu won’t ever agree one as some countries have a huge issue with its punitive tax on vehicle imports. There is no incentive to remove these in Europe as they actually have very little trade with India.

• The EU is India's number one trading partner (13.5% of India's overall trade with the world in 2015-16), well ahead of China (10.8%), USA (9.3%), UAE (7.7%) and Saudi Arabia (4.3%).

India - Trade - European Commission

Anymore Grendull facts?

 

[skybluetony176]

So an arrangement is a trade agreement?

I suppose your mum is your dad.

Yes it’s a trade agreement. Trade is the basis of GSP. Like I said. If you can’t grasp that you really are an idiot.

 

[Astute]

Yes it’s a trade agreement. Trade is the basis of GSP. Like I said. If you can’t grasp that you really are an idiot.

And WTO rules are also a trade agreement?

 

[Astute]

• The EU is India's number one trading partner (13.5% of India's overall trade with the world in 2015-16), well ahead of China (10.8%), USA (9.3%), UAE (7.7%) and Saudi Arabia (4.3%).

India - Trade - European Commission

Anymore Grendull facts?

Share that between the countries of the EU. It becomes 0.5% per country. Or are we doing it by continent now?

 

[skybluetony176]

Share that between the countries of the EU. It becomes 0.5% per country. Or are we doing it by continent now?

The EU is a trading block and therefore a single trading partner you idiot not a continent.

 

[skybluetony176]

And WTO rules are also a trade agreement?

WTO is a default point for WTO members who can’t agree a trade agreement with each other. The EU doesn’t trade with India on this basis it trades on the basis of the GSP agreement which as the acronym tells you is a Generalised Scheme of Preferences. Seriously. Is this an act? You can’t really be this stupid can you?

 

[Astute]

WTO is a default point for WTO members who can’t agree a trade agreement with each other. The EU doesn’t trade with India on this basis it trades on the basis of the GSP agreement which as the acronym tells you is a Generalised Scheme of Preferences. Seriously. Is this an act? You can’t really be this stupid can you?

I'm here to help you as you are the intelligent one :smuggrin:

What is generalized system of preferences (GSP)? definition and meaning

And as you are so intelligent I thought I had better give you the meaning of non-reciprocal

unanswered, unreciprocated, unrequited. not returned in kind.

Then you can apologise for insulting people just because you thought you was right. And then apologise to FP.

Or just disappear as usual for a day or two.

 

[skybluetony176]

I'm here to help you as you are the intelligent one :smuggrin:

What is generalized system of preferences (GSP)? definition and meaning

And as you are so intelligent I thought I had better give you the meaning of non-reciprocal

unanswered, unreciprocated, unrequited. not returned in kind.

Then you can apologise for insulting people just because you thought you was right. And then apologise to FP.

Or just disappear as usual for a day or two.

That’s a generalisation and not a specific description of how the EU GSP arrangement works.

The details of the EU GSP are here Generalised Scheme of Preferences (GSP) - Trade - European Commission

Pay special attention to this part “GSP also supports EU businesses' competiveness by lowering the costs of imports from these countries“

As I handle the documentation of the goods we import from India for clearance and have done for approaching 10 years I can even tell you first hand how this works so find a comfortable seat.

When I first started we would receive from our suppliers via courier shipping documents containing the following. Commercial Invoice, 3 originals. Packing List, 3 originals. Bill of Lading, 3 originals and crucially a GSP certificate that was unique to each consignment. The GSP certificate is what allowed us to import the product we want and clear customs tariff free. That changed not that long ago. You still get 3 Commercial Invoices, 3 Packing Lists and 3 Bills of Lading however they have now done away with the GSP certificate and instead the exporter i.e. the company we buy from registers into the GSP agreement and are issued a REX number that they have to state on the Commercial Invoice and so long as this checks out the goods clear customs tariff free. The only thing we pay is VAT if the goods are remaining in the U.K. if we’re re-exporting we use the IPR scheme to waver the VAT providing the goods are re-exported within a certain period of time. We are yet to pay tariffs on anything we import from India and that will change if we revert to WTO. The vast majority of the goods we import stay in the U.K. so any tariff will either be passed on, eat into our profit or maybe even lose us a competitive edge meaning we lose orders. But according to Grendull and you we don’t benefit from the GSP. Come back and tell me that when you have some real life experience of the benefits of GSP rather than empty rhetoric and assumptions based on nothing.

I’ll accept your apology anytime you want to man up and make it.

 

[Astute]

That’s a generalisation and not a specific description of how the EU GSP arrangement works.

The details of the EU GSP are here Generalised Scheme of Preferences (GSP) - Trade - European Commission

Pay special attention to this part “GSP also supports EU businesses' competiveness by lowering the costs of imports from these countries“

As I handle the documentation of the goods we import from India for clearance and have done for approaching 10 years I can even tell you first hand how this works so find a comfortable seat.

When I first started we would receive from our suppliers via courier shipping documents containing the following. Commercial Invoice, 3 originals. Packing List, 3 originals. Bill of Lading, 3 originals and crucially a GSP certificate that was unique to each consignment. The GSP certificate is what allowed us to import the product we want and clear customs tariff free. That changed not that long ago. You still get 3 Commercial Invoices, 3 Packing Lists and 3 Bills of Lading however they have now done away with the GSP certificate and instead the exporter i.e. the company we buy from registers into the GSP agreement and are issued a REX number that they have to state on the Commercial Invoice and so long as this checks out the goods clear customs tariff free. The only thing we pay is VAT if the goods are remaining in the U.K. if we’re re-exporting we use the IPR scheme to waver the VAT providing the goods are re-exported within a certain period of time. We are yet to pay tariffs on anything we import from India and that will change if we revert to WTO. The vast majority of the goods we import stay in the U.K. so any tariff will either be passed on, eat into our profit or maybe even lose us a competitive edge meaning we lose orders. But according to Grendull and you we don’t benefit from the GSP. Come back and tell me that when you have some real life experience of the benefits of GSP rather than empty rhetoric and assumptions based on nothing.

I’ll accept your apology anytime you want to man up and make it.

Do you need a bigger spade to dig a bigger hole?

It isn't a trade deal whatever lie you try and come out with. It is similar to WTO rules but a version for developing countries to pay less or no tax at all when selling to developed countries.

 

[Grendel]

• The EU is India's number one trading partner (13.5% of India's overall trade with the world in 2015-16), well ahead of China (10.8%), USA (9.3%), UAE (7.7%) and Saudi Arabia (4.3%).

India - Trade - European Commission

Anymore Grendull facts?

And Tony what percentage do the uk make up of that?

 

[skybluetony176]

Do you need a bigger spade to dig a bigger hole?

It isn't a trade deal whatever lie you try and come out with. It is similar to WTO rules but a version for developing countries to pay less or no tax at all when buying from developed countries.

I’ve given you a link to the European Commissions website that tells you the exact details of the GSP arrangement that the EU trades with certain countries on. It tells you in plain English that EU countries also benefit from this arrangement. I’ve even copied and pasted the specific paragraph that tells you this. How can I be lying? They’re not my words, it’s a quote from the website of the very body that oversees it. I’ve even tried to explain how it works on the paperwork side by telling you about something I’ve done dozens if not hundreds of times over the last decade. Talk to anyone who has a hand in clearing goods from India or any country who is part of the EU’s GSP scheme and they’ll tell you the same. Maybe we’re all lying. Or maybe you just don’t have a clue what you’re talking about.

 

[skybluetony176]

And Tony what percentage do the uk make up of that?

Not as much as Belgium. Germany is India’s 6th biggest trading partner as a stand-alone country. Belgium is 13th as a stand-alone country and we’re 18th. Not that that is relevant because when we leave the EU will still be India’s biggest trading partner whereas we’ll be behind powerhouses such as Nigeria in the queue way down the pecking order.

 

[Grendel]

I’ve given you a link to the European Commissions website that tells you the exact details of the GSP arrangement that the EU trades with certain countries on. It tells you in plain English that EU countries also benefit from this arrangement. I’ve even copied and pasted the specific paragraph that tells you this. How can I be lying? They’re not my words, it’s a quote from the website of the very body that oversees it. I’ve even tried to explain how it works on the paperwork side by telling you about something I’ve done dozens if not hundreds of times over the last decade. Talk to anyone who has a hand in clearing goods from India or any country who is part of the EU’s GSP scheme and they’ll tell you the same. Maybe we’re all lying. Or maybe you just don’t have a clue what you’re talking about.

You are making the classic mistake that a tariff on goods impacts the importer and not the exporter.

 

[Astute]

I’ve given you a link to the European Commissions website that tells you the exact details of the GSP arrangement that the EU trades with certain countries on. It tells you in plain English that EU countries also benefit from this arrangement. I’ve even copied and pasted the specific paragraph that tells you this. How can I be lying? They’re not my words, it’s a quote from the website of the very body that oversees it. I’ve even tried to explain how it works on the paperwork side by telling you about something I’ve done dozens if not hundreds of times over the last decade. Talk to anyone who has a hand in clearing goods from India or any country who is part of the EU’s GSP scheme and they’ll tell you the same. Maybe we’re all lying. Or maybe you just don’t have a clue what you’re talking about.

It isn't an EU thing though. It is a worldwide thing. So it isn't an EU trade deal like you are trying to say and just because you didn't know what you was talking about and can't bring yourself to admit that you are wrong.

Then you call people names like thick and stupid :smuggrin:

 

[skybluetony176]

It isn't an EU thing though. It is a worldwide thing. So it isn't an EU trade deal like you are trying to say and just because you didn't know what you was talking about and can't bring yourself to admit that you are wrong.

Then you call people names like thick and stupid :smuggrin:

So it’s been forced on the EU is that what you’re saying? All GSP’s are the same are they? Then how do you account for the discrepancy between the generic description you’re clinging to as opposed to the specific arrangements of the EU GSP that I gave you a link for and even quoted for you knowing that you wasn’t going to read the link. Which you clearly haven’t.

 

[skybluetony176]

You are making the classic mistake that a tariff on goods impacts the importer and not the exporter.

It impacts both as well you know although you’re probably going to pretend otherwise by making the classic mistake that a tariff on goods impacts the exporter not the importer.

 

[Grendel]

It impacts both as well you know although you’re probably going to pretend otherwise by making the classic mistake that a tariff on goods impacts the exporter not the importer.

No the purpose of a tariff is to restrict trade and the importer pays the tariff and distribution costs. The problem of course is that exporter faces a dilemma of losing the contract or seeing demand reduce. It ends up reducing the price of the goods sold to retain market share.