Are you saying the ECB is helping them ?
Oh for Christ sake. Quantative easing is an approach the uk can take to stabilise it’s economy
The suppression of the rate at the European Bank is done for exactly the opposite reasons. Spain and Italy are bankrupt and have no economic tools within their power to influence their fate.
Are you saying the ECB is helping them ?
The EU has not caused misery everywhere else. Most countries are better off
Oh for Christ sake. Quantative easing is an approach the uk can take to stabilise it’s economy
The suppression of the rate at the European Bank is done for exactly the opposite reasons. Spain and Italy are bankrupt and have no economic tools within their power to influence their fate.
So the ECB is deliberately trying to destable the European economy? Is that what you’re claiming?
No it’s crippling them.
At what rate? Why does it owe them?You seem to think that raising interest rates will help a country who’s national debt is running at 130% of GDP. How is that?How much does Italy owe the European Central Bank?
At what rate? Why does it owe them?You seem to think that raising interest rates will help a country who’s national debt is running at 130% of GDP. How is that?
You know the answer to that. Make your point. If you have one of course.How much is their total debt?
You know the answer to that. Make your point. If you have one of course.
Well Tony the point is they owe £600 billion euros to the European Central Bank.
The interest rate is low for one reason.
What’s the reason Tony?
Again. If you have a point to make make it and stop dicking around. We’re in danger of having a conversation here if you do.
I have to go slowly Tony as I’ve noticed in your debates with Astute you get confused when long lengthy content is presented for you to consider.
They are low Tony mainly because of germany suppressing the rate in Germany.
Why would they do this Tony?
The defining word there is astute.
Hasn’t the ECB said just recently that the stimulus program has had a negative effect on the German banking industry? That seems to contradict the point that you’ not making very well.
Isn’t it also true to say that Germany has for some time now been putting pressure on the ECB to raise interest rates?
German industry has of course but the impact would be problematic for other European countries.
Merkel holds the key. The Italy government has been voted in with a pledge for boosting spending. This won’t be allowed to happen as it was not in Greece as the EU can explain the catastrophic impact of their own actions
So austerity remains and the government is a mere puppet in Italy dictated to by the key money lender.
So, in Italy they are going to have an election because 'they didn't get it right the first time', and now we are seeing George Soros try and fund a second referendum.
This is certainly not democracy.
Oh fuck off. Soros doesn't give a hoot about democracy, he's about as much a poster boy for neo liberalism as you could get.It certainly is. The Italians faced with the appointment of someone ( unelected as far as I know ) who proposes something that could wreck their economy and devalue the life savings of many people, have created a situation where the people can say whether they are willing to risk that.
Soros is not funding a second referendum. He is funding a campaign for another referendum because the country is being driven at high speed into a brick wall. This was not known by everyone who voted. Now the people can see which way the cookie crumbles, they should have the choice to confirm that they are ok with that. Or not.
Don't see why someone as concerned about democracy and free speech as yourself would have any objection to people being asked to confirm their decision in light of the facts that we now know.
Orban and Bannon, who has been in Hungary and Italy offering his advice ( FFS ), have both said that liberal democracy is now dead. Soros is fighting to keep Western values and liberal democracy alive, which is why he is not popular with your right wing mates. Glad he is there.
Oh fuck off. Soros doesn't give a hoot about democracy, he's about as much a poster boy for neo liberalism as you could get.
It certainly is. The Italians faced with the appointment of someone ( unelected as far as I know ) who proposes something that could wreck their economy and devalue the life savings of many people, have created a situation where the people can say whether they are willing to risk that.
Soros is not funding a second referendum. He is funding a campaign for another referendum because the country is being driven at high speed into a brick wall. This was not known by everyone who voted. Now the people can see which way the cookie crumbles, they should have the choice to confirm that they are ok with that. Or not.
Don't see why someone as concerned about democracy and free speech as yourself would have any objection to people being asked to confirm their decision in light of the facts that we now know.
Orban and Bannon, who has been in Hungary and Italy offering his advice ( FFS ), have both said that liberal democracy is now dead. Soros is fighting to keep Western values and liberal democracy alive, which is why he is not popular with your right wing mates. Glad he is there.
There’s going to be a whole lot of EU muck thrown around over the next few days a d weeks. What the snout in the EU trough Soros is really alarmed at is the events in Italy.
Italy will at some point exit the Euro of that I’m convinced. The events this week have made that more likely. Despite Martcov and his delusions Italia have been crippled by the euro and it’s worsening. If it does go a d leave a half a trillion pound black hole in the EU Bank the whole house of cards will collapse almost overnight
Yes, that’s why Orban is against him.. sarcasm. Orban and Bannon don’t give a hoot about democracy which is why they attack the media. The name of the game is to discredit or, if possible, ban the so-called mainstream media. They attack Soros‘ university and him. There are photos of him as a SS man... although he was at schools at the time and is Jewish. I would say Soros has a more democratic outlook than his right wing opponents.
Exactly how I see it Grendel. Spot on.
That’s why they couldn’t let Greece leave 3 years ago. If Greece left then the whole thing goes bang. So they imposed austerity and German ministers from the IMF to control and over see spending in Greece. The county who invented democracy. Ironic
The Italians are smart people and I fancy they will give a bigger fight than Greece. Nice to see as ESB said that they gave the wrong answer in the last election so it looks like being a re run in Italy in July or September. The EU crumbling before your eyes.
Exactly how I see it Grendel. Spot on.
That’s why they couldn’t let Greece leave 3 years ago. If Greece left then the whole thing goes bang. So they imposed austerity and German ministers from the IMF to control and over see spending in Greece. The county who invented democracy. Ironic
The Italians are smart people and I fancy they will give a bigger fight than Greece. Nice to see as ESB said that they gave the wrong answer in the last election so it looks like being a re run in Italy in July or September. The EU crumbling before your eyes.
What planet are you on?
Soros is about as anti democratic as it gets unless you give the right answer of course. I do often wonder if he would want another referendum if we voted remain seen as he is such a nice chap.
I’ve just seen the Italian bonds markets are in crisis now also. Worrying times for Italy.
2 options
1. Italy get a bailout and a further trapped in the euro and austerity just like Greece with no future.
2. Sack the euro off as G said and create a big hole in the ECB and the whole thing goes bang.
Simple as that for me.
What planet are you on?
Soros is about as anti democratic as it gets unless you give the right answer of course. I do often wonder if he would want another referendum if we voted remain seen as he is such a nice chap.
So it’s 1. then.
The Eurozone needs reform. As has been suggested, an EURO finance minister with powers to create a closer fiscal union including coordinated corporation tax bands, VAT levels and debt control. A transfer system will then be unavoidable. Which means the richer countries will have to subsidise the poorer if they cannot meet the conditions required by the EURO finance minister without outside help. Plenty of fun there and it won’t happen overnight, but the alternative of recurring crises and high youth unemployment is worse.
No one, apart from perhaps KoK and money lenders, wants interest rates to rocket on Italian bonds. Just as no one wants high inflation in Italy due to some currency experiment.
The collapse of the Euro back into 20 odd different currencies would be pure hell as they sought to realign to their own values. Why anyone, apart from a Brexitloon, would saliva at that is beyond me.
Let’s see if the Italians are even asked whether the want to leave the Euro or not, by the parties pledging to leave it in their manifestos.
No, probably not, but Farage had said 52:48 remain would mean work to be done. Until Farage got the result he wanted.
Enjoying Brexit up until now?
BoJo says countries like Argentina want to do deals with us. Could be interesting. They, along with the USA, will no doubt have a list of demands we have to fulfill in order to trade freely with them.
But, I wouldn’t pay too much attention to our buffoon.
It is much more likely the € would eventually collapse rather than the EU, neither Cinque Stelle or La Lega have advocated actually leaving the EU.
What evidence are you using that the average Italian is 'smart'? Granted, young Italian women are amongst the most intelligent and educated in the world but hold relatively little power or influence in a very male dominated and centred country.
Yeah good points and I know a hand full of Italians by me. Very smart and charming people. The big one for Italy is the currency and being told what to do by the Germans. They had a general election and now it looks 99% certain like another one in a few months. It’s a mess. It’s a much bigger problem then brexit.
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