The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (12 Viewers)

[skybluetony176]

This is the sort of nonesense the EU excels at imo...

11 governments ask EU to help hide their air pollution failure

Set rules or targets, not met...adjust as required to fit

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Did you actually read the article? Or the headline for that matter. It’s governments (including our) that are requesting that targets be retrospectively changed as they have failed to meet them having previously agreed to them. It’s not the EU driving this, it’s the sovereign governments of individual countries that have failed and now trying to drive the change.

 

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[Brighton Sky Blue]

Which is why May has been going round the heads of government to cut Barnier out.
It also highlights another deep problem in the UK, Elizabeth II isn't elected, she has no real power, even Theresa May is a compromise candidate.
There is no real democracy in the UK its all a big fudge to allow the Tories & Labour to impose their will.

PS Mart, don't bother replying, I have you on ignore.

Hmmm

 

[martcov]

This is the sort of nonesense the EU excels at imo...

11 governments ask EU to help hide their air pollution failure

Set rules or targets, not met...adjust as required to fit

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk

How do suggest the EU punishes sovereign states? There will be uproar from Brexiteers if the commission sanctions the UK for failing to reach targets. You know the excuses off by heart. Eurocrats. Unelected old men interfering in our country. More EU red tape. Sovereignty. Making our own laws. Etc etc....

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

How do suggest the EU punishes sovereign states? There will be uproar from Brexiteers if the commission sanctions the UK for failing to reach targets. You know the excuses off by heart. Eurocrats. Unelected old men interfering in our country. More EU red tape. Sovereignty. Making our own laws. Etc etc....

Whose fault was it for the country being in the shitter before we joined this organisation?

 

[martcov]

Whose fault was it for the country being in the shitter before we joined this organisation?

I would guess the UK print media would say it was the trade unions. Too much power. Undemocratic. Led by communist/ socialist old men. Interfering in our governments through the Labour Party. Restricting our competitiveness by asking for higher wages and more employee protection regulations.

 

[torchomatic]

 

[rob9872]

Brexit: An evolution of deceit & dissembling.

1. "They need us more than we need them."
2. "It should be the easiest deal in human history."
3. "No deal is better than a bad deal."
4. "They have to believe we'll walk away."
5. "Shit. They believed us. We're screwed. Blame them."

As opposed to:

1) There’s no way leave will win
2) We don’t like the result let’s ask for another referendum
3) Cameron never supported it he has to go
4) They’re not listening, we should protest until we get what we want
5) Blame the Tories for giving us a choice
6) We didn’t elect May let’s force a general election
7) Darn it we still didn’t get what we wanted but Corbyn got more votes than last time so we’ll pretend we won
8) Tell them all they were duped and didn’t know what they were voting for
9) Darn it again, our hero Corbyn supports Brexit too
10) More protests needed, refuse to accept democracy and name anyone who voted for Brexit a racist
11) Still not working let’s have another protest to derail things further and waste tax payers money policing it
12) Try our best to ensure that we don’t support any deal offered so that we can ensure we’re in a bad place post Brexit and say I told you so
13) Refuse to accept the democratic decision more protests needed
14) Blame Trump

 

[Astute]

Brexit: An evolution of deceit & dissembling.

1. "They need us more than we need them."
2. "It should be the easiest deal in human history."
3. "No deal is better than a bad deal."
4. "They have to believe we'll walk away."
5. "Shit. They believed us. We're screwed. Blame them."

So you have your version of leave. How about your version of remain?

Just the same comments over and over again.

Won't be a deal. The EU doesn't need us.

Selmayr fiasco? Doesn't matter. The EU still doesn't need us.

So what if the majority of MEP's are getting worried. Barnier is following a mandate.

Barnier admits that the wording he has used will have to change and that a deal is wanted otherwise it would damage the EU. La La La I'm not listening. Let's pretend that there won't be a deal and continue to say what will happen without a deal because nobody in the EU wants one.

 

[Astute]

I will reply anyway. Barnier is an appointed negotiator. He doesn’t have to be elected. All 27 heads of government and all MEPs are elected. Juncker was elected by the Council and confirmed by the MEPs.

Oli Robbins, the one negotiating on our behalf on May‘s instructions wasn’t elected.

May has been going round the heads of government, but we know of no major success. Hague has blamed Macron accusing him of being stubborn. Barnier has written an open letter explaining that he represents the 27 and that they have all agreed to his line. No one has denied this.

Of course he doesn't have to be elected. Just the same as Selmayr didn't need to be elected. But by their own rules and regulations he should have been elected.

The problem that you have is the vast majority in the EU were against him being slotted into his position. They have had enough of the way they are ruled. They can't remove him. It is a job for life. But they are now speaking out on what they want. It put Barnier and the others that have been slotted into their positions on the spot. They can't keep up with the pretence of everyone being happy with the way that they are dealing with our exit. The cat is out of the bag.

Or they could ignore everyone and risk the EU tearing itself apart. Even Barnier said about doing what is best for the EU.

But of course we should continue saying how bad it will be for us and that the EU doesn't need us.

 

[SkyblueBazza]

Did you actually read the article? Or the headline for that matter. It’s governments (including our) that are requesting that targets be retrospectively changed as they have failed to meet them having previously agreed to them. It’s not the EU driving this, it’s the sovereign governments of individual countries that have failed and now trying to drive the change.

Yes I did...and the point I am making is that I reckon the EU will accomodate it, thereby making the whole thing pointless from the start

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[SkyblueBazza]

How do suggest the EU punishes sovereign states? There will be uproar from Brexiteers if the commission sanctions the UK for failing to reach targets. You know the excuses off by heart. Eurocrats. Unelected old men interfering in our country. More EU red tape. Sovereignty. Making our own laws. Etc etc....

Which begs the question - why bother? If it is worth doing do it properly & yes sanction them!

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[martcov]

Which begs the question - why bother? If it is worth doing do it properly & yes sanction them!

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So you want the EU to sanction the UK. Despite the argument that diesel has now been proved to make the targets not possible ( according to the UK )?

 

[martcov]

Of course he doesn't have to be elected. Just the same as Selmayr didn't need to be elected. But by their own rules and regulations he should have been elected.

The problem that you have is the vast majority in the EU were against him being slotted into his position. They have had enough of the way they are ruled. They can't remove him. It is a job for life. But they are now speaking out on what they want. It put Barnier and the others that have been slotted into their positions on the spot. They can't keep up with the pretence of everyone being happy with the way that they are dealing with our exit. The cat is out of the bag.

Or they could ignore everyone and risk the EU tearing itself apart. Even Barnier said about doing what is best for the EU.


But of course we should continue saying how bad it will be for us and that the EU doesn't need us.

Barnier is the appointed negotiator and working to his brief. His brief was agreed by all 27 countries. All 27 will have to approve any deal he puts forward.

How could he ignore his brief and make a deal without the approval of the 27? It is not possible.

How was he slotted in? What cat has been let out of what bag?

Selmayr was appointed as a political civil servant from the conservative faction, Juncker’s faction, which has a majority ( Edit: the largest group) in the parliament. He is the highest of the EU staff in the EU civil service.

He didn’t have to be elected. Neither did Oliver Robbins in the UK.

 

[SkyblueBazza]

So you want the EU to sanction the UK. Despite the argument that diesel has now been proved to make the targets not possible ( according to the UK )?

Research should be done before the rules are set. It isn't any sudden finding that diesel is a polluter to anyone that has walked by a truck, now is it?
Plus...don't single out the UK here...you might easily be mistaken as being what many already suspect you to be!

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[martcov]

Research should be done before the rules are set. It isn't any sudden finding that diesel is a polluter to anyone that has walked by a truck, now is it?
Plus...don't single out the UK here...you might easily be mistaken as being what many already suspect you to be!

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I didn’t single the UK out. I said that the Brexiteers wouldn’t like being sanctioned and you said „sanction them“. The countries include the UK. Their argument is that the full effects of diesel were not known. One reason being that the car manufacturers manipulated tests. Seems like a good point.

 

[Astute]

Selmayr was appointed as a political civil servant from the conservative faction, Juncker’s faction, which has a majority ( Edit: the largest group) in the parliament. He is the highest of the EU staff in the EU civil service.

Trying to change history already or are you just wording it very well?

So you are saying that Selmayr didn't need voting in to the position he now holds?

 

[Astute]

Research should be done before the rules are set. It isn't any sudden finding that diesel is a polluter to anyone that has walked by a truck, now is it?
Plus...don't single out the UK here...you might easily be mistaken as being what many already suspect you to be!

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Of course he won't mention that two of the other countries are Germany and France....

 

[Astute]

I didn’t single the UK out. I said that the Brexiteers wouldn’t like being sanctioned and you said „sanction them“. The countries include the UK. Their argument is that the full effects of diesel were not known. One reason being that the car manufacturers manipulated tests. Seems like a good point.

Would that be the GERMAN companies by any chance.........

 

[Grendel]

What has the emission scandal - a grotesque abuse by German motor companies got to do with Eu regulations?

 

[skybluetony176]

Yes I did...and the point I am making is that I reckon the EU will accomodate it, thereby making the whole thing pointless from the start

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So you’d prefer it if the EU didn’t accommodate these countries requests and come down on them with the full force that they could use instead?

 

[martcov]

What has the emission scandal - a grotesque abuse by German motor companies got to do with Eu regulations?

The argument being that diesel is causing more damage than was known at the time the EU targets were set. The aims should be set higher to allow for this. ( not necessarily my view ), but what was quoted in the article.

 

[martcov]

Would that be the GERMAN companies by any chance.........

I presume so.

 

[Astute]

I presume so.

So what has the EU done so far?

Remember you say that there is no favouritism shown towards Germany.

 

[Astute]

So you’d prefer it if the EU didn’t accommodate these countries requests and come down on them with the full force that they could use instead?

I suppose it is our fault that we have millions of cars on our roads that were made with them electronically cheating tests for emissions.

 

[Grendel]

The argument being that diesel is causing more damage than was known at the time the EU targets were set. The aims should be set higher to allow for this. ( not necessarily my view ), but what was quoted in the article.

Targets are set by most countries - that’s why one German is spending 7 years on a US penitentiary

 

[Astute]

Targets are set by most countries - that’s why one German is spending 7 years on a US penitentiary

What has the EU done?

 

[Grendel]

What has the EU done?

Tried to cover it up

 

[skybluetony176]

I suppose it is our fault that we have millions of cars on our roads that were made with them electronically cheating tests for emissions.

So basically you’re saying that it’s right that the EU support the governments who are asking for the help but you’re going to bitch about the EU doing it anyway.

 

[Astute]

So basically you’re saying that it’s right that the EU support the governments who are asking for the help but you’re going to bitch about the EU doing it anyway.

Basically you are making up what you say I have said as usual.

Strangely enough those who support the EU whatever happens only mentioned the UK. No mention of Germany at all. And no mention about the masses of pollution caused by illegally falsifying tests. And just words from the EU.

If boundaries are set they should be aimed at. If targets are missed it should be looked into. And if some of the blame can come down to a certain country then it should be looked into in more fine detail. It shouldn't be ignored just because it is Germany.

 

[martcov]

Targets are set by most countries - that’s why one German is spending 7 years on a US penitentiary

The article was about the EU rules regarding targets.

 

[martcov]

Basically you are making up what you say I have said as usual.

Strangely enough those who support the EU whatever happens only mentioned the UK. No mention of Germany at all. And no mention about the masses of pollution caused by illegally falsifying tests. And just words from the EU.

If boundaries are set they should be aimed at. If targets are missed it should be looked into. And if some of the blame can come down to a certain country then it should be looked into in more fine detail. It shouldn't be ignored just because it is Germany.

Germany is one of 11 countries asking for a change in targeting. Britain is another. The criticism from Bazza was that they should all be sanctioned. Britain is leaving because of EU interference in „our sovereignty“. I asked Bazza about Britain because he is one criticizing the EU for being too soft. I asked how they should punish Britain as Britain is leaving and complaining about the EU. I pointed out that this is exactly what Brexiteers complain about. He is asking for the EU to ignore the Brexiteers and to ignore Britain’s arguments and sanction them. I would prefer the EU first look at the arguments and then decide.

 

[Grendel]

The article was about the EU rules regarding targets.

But every country has targets and every country have laws of prosecution.

Just a shame for you it’s your adopted country that’s the one that’s treating consumers like shit.

Bit embarrassing really

 

[martcov]

But every country has targets and every country have laws of prosecution.

Just a shame for you it’s your adopted country that’s the one that’s treating consumers like shit.

Bit embarrassing really

Germany is one of eleven. What makes you think that Germany ( the state ) is not protecting consumers? The Diesel Affair is ongoing. Apart from the consumers being ripped off, the consumers paid less road tax based on CO2 Emissions. The Finanzministerium is not happy at that.

 

[Astute]

Germany is one of 11 countries asking for a change in targeting. Britain is another. The criticism from Bazza was that they should all be sanctioned. Britain is leaving because of EU interference in „our sovereignty“. I asked Bazza about Britain because he is one criticizing the EU for being too soft. I asked how they should punish Britain as Britain is leaving and complaining about the EU. I pointed out that this is exactly what Brexiteers complain about. He is asking for the EU to ignore the Brexiteers and to ignore Britain’s arguments and sanction them. I would prefer the EU first look at the arguments and then decide.

Back to the question I gave you instead of changing the subject.

Why has the EU not done anything?

Whenever we ask for anything we always get turned down. But Germany was at least part of the problem. So of course there won't be a problem.

And yes we are still tied to EU rules and regulations. So they should be kept to.

 

[Grendel]

Germany is one of eleven. What makes you think that Germany ( the state ) is not protecting consumers? The Diesel Affair is ongoing. Apart from the consumers being ripped off, the consumers paid less road tax based on CO2 Emissions. The Finanzministerium is not happy at that.

Has the Audi chief been sent down yet?