The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (245 Viewers)

[Grendel]

You are funny astute. You've just spent the last god knows how many page's denying that the pound has crashed. All I've done is point out the facts and provided links to them facts. You've even tried re-writing the definition of the word crash. As well as trying to redefine what constitutes whether we are or aren't in recession. Just to recap it's a measurement over two quarters not two weeks.

The fact is that not only has the pound crashed it's crashed across the board to everything that I can see except the Argentinian peso. A presentation of fact's is not wumming. It's proving your assumptions wrong. Sorry it doesn't fit with you but unfortunately facts are facts.

Still, it's a new week ahead and who knows what will happen. Maybe the shares in the house builders will continue to improve, maybe the pound will start to bounce back, maybe you'll notice. Who knows.

Unfortunately you seem to not actually accept that markets always react badly to uncertainty. Also they always recover.

The markets have had sustained periods of depression before - including one catastrophic period when we stupidly tried to tie ourselves into the Euro interest rate strategy - this is a small period of time. The pound has been lower before against the dollar and certainly against the Euro so all you are spouting is mass hysteria.

We've had far worse sustained economic concerns before and let's be honest it never once impacted the vast majority of the country as this won't.

You seem to have some huge issue as you work for a company that imports from the US. With respect that's not an issue of any relevance to any of is and providing your management have responsible and prudent practices will not impact them long term either. If prices really had to increase already that's a sign of an issue with your business and it's lack of prudence and risk assessment - nothing else,

 

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[martcov]

So what you are saying is the EU is doing well so all currencies involved should be strong, the pound didn't go up before the vote because the money people expected a remain vote, it is bad for exporters when your currency is weak and a much bigger and better market won't open up to us when we will be allowed to make the trade deals with the rest of the world like the EU have stopped us from doing?

You been taking lessons from Tony?

No, I am saying that the narrative seems to 'flow' backwards and forwards.

 

[chiefdave]

think CD is referring to the $

I was, lost track of the thread a bit. Same thing happened with the Euro though. Although the Euro has been dropping since the prospect of a referendum went from a vague idea to something that was likely to happen.

Saying that the Euro has always been a bit all over the place so its hard to say with too much conviction that the gradual drop is anything other than the Euro acting like it normally does. Obviously when it drops off a cliff when the result comes in thats obviously linked.

Unfortunately you seem to not actually accept that markets always react badly to uncertainty. Also they always recover.

The question is how long will things take to recover. We're still in a period of uncertainly and many of those leading the leave campaign are retreating into the distance after admitting there was no plan for what to do in the event of victory.

What we need is quick and decisive action to restore confidence and get things moving in the right direction.

 

[mrtrench]

Tony and Astute will you please stop arguing about FX rates. You know that you love each other really! If my wife and I were arguing about FX rates my daughter would knock our heads together and tell us to stop being so petty.

Come on guys - time to move onto interest rates methinks. x

 

[fernandopartridge]

23rd of June. What would you have got then? How was the pound compared to the rest of the world currency then? How was it a couple of days later?

The

 

[Deleted member 5849]

The

Indeed?

 

[skybluetony176]

Unfortunately you seem to not actually accept that markets always react badly to uncertainty. Also they always recover.

The markets have had sustained periods of depression before - including one catastrophic period when we stupidly tried to tie ourselves into the Euro interest rate strategy - this is a small period of time. The pound has been lower before against the dollar and certainly against the Euro so all you are spouting is mass hysteria.

We've had far worse sustained economic concerns before and let's be honest it never once impacted the vast majority of the country as this won't.

You seem to have some huge issue as you work for a company that imports from the US. With respect that's not an issue of any relevance to any of is and providing your management have responsible and prudent practices will not impact them long term either. If prices really had to increase already that's a sign of an issue with your business and it's lack of prudence and risk assessment - nothing else,

I do accept that markets react I also accept (unlike you) that these reactions in the markets cause ripples outside of those markets. It doesn't all begin and end with the FTSE and currency market's, there's a real world outside of that and that is where the ripples are in reality felt the most.

The fact that you think I work for a company that imports from the US actually shows how little attention you've been paying. I never said anything even remotely like that and that's because it simply isn't the case. What I actually said is that the company I work for is heavily reliant on raw materials that are traded in dollars. Not even remotely the same. I invited you to look at the LME's website. LME stands for the LONDON metal exchange which is the world centre for trading metals and guess what currency the LONDON metal exchange deals in. It's not pounds, it's dollars. As usual you've put two and another random number (as you weren't paying attention so you don't know what that number was) together and come up with the wrong number altogether.

 

[Grendel]

I do accept that markets react I also accept (unlike you) that these reactions in the markets cause ripples outside of those markets. It doesn't all begin and end with the FTSE and currency market's, there's a real world outside of that and that is where the ripples are in reality felt the most.

The fact that you think I work for a company that imports from the US actually shows how little attention you've been paying. I never said anything even remotely like that and that's because it simply isn't the case. What I actually said is that the company I work for is heavily reliant on raw materials that are traded in dollars. Not even remotely the same. I invited you to look at the LME's website. LME stands for the LONDON metal exchange which is the world centre for trading metals and guess what currency the LONDON metal exchange deals in. It's not pounds, it's dollars. As usual you've put two and another random number (as you weren't paying attention so you don't know what that number was) together and come up with the wrong number altogether.

In my defence I only scanned the ill informed diatribe you are posting and really couldn't give a shit how leaving the eurozone impacts you personally.

 

[skybluetony176]

In my defence I only scanned the ill informed diatribe you are posting and really couldn't give a shit how leaving the eurozone impacts you personally.

If they give out medals for being an ignorant selfish prick you just picked up the gold. Well done.

 

[Astute]

I do accept that markets react I also accept (unlike you) that these reactions in the markets cause ripples outside of those markets. It doesn't all begin and end with the FTSE and currency market's, there's a real world outside of that and that is where the ripples are in reality felt the most.

The fact that you think I work for a company that imports from the US actually shows how little attention you've been paying. I never said anything even remotely like that and that's because it simply isn't the case. What I actually said is that the company I work for is heavily reliant on raw materials that are traded in dollars. Not even remotely the same. I invited you to look at the LME's website. LME stands for the LONDON metal exchange which is the world centre for trading metals and guess what currency the LONDON metal exchange deals in. It's not pounds, it's dollars. As usual you've put two and another random number (as you weren't paying attention so you don't know what that number was) together and come up with the wrong number altogether.

Have you joined your company in recent years? Because you have not mentioned once the problems caused by the dollar dropping from $2.10 to $1.36 in two years. So if you are being truthful your companies imports costs went up by over 1/3 in two years.

I just can't work out why you haven't mentioned it

 

[Astute]

No, I am saying that the narrative seems to 'flow' backwards and forwards.

You made out that everything I said was wrong. And when questioned you put a different meaning to it. Yeah.....

 

[skybluetony176]

Have you joined your company in recent years? Because you have not mentioned once the problems caused by the dollar dropping from $2.10 to $1.36 in two years. So if you are being truthful your companies imports costs went up by over 1/3 in two years.

I just can't work out why you haven't mentioned it

You do know that this thread is about brexit don't you? You do know we only had had that vote a couple of weeks ago not a couple of years?

If you want to ask me if the import of raw materials have gone up over the last couple of years just ask me like an adult. Don't make out that I'm trying to hide something in a discussion about the effects of something that only happened a couple of weeks ago.

 

[Astute]

You do know that this thread is about brexit don't you? You do know we only had had that vote a couple of weeks ago not a couple of years?

If you want to ask me if the import of raw materials have gone up over the last couple of years just ask me like an adult. Don't make out that I'm trying to hide something in a discussion about the effects of something that only happened a couple of weeks ago.

I mentioned it a few times just like an adult would. You tried to say that losing over 1/3 of the value in two years wasn't bad or a crash. I asked you about it again. But as you didn't have a good enough answer considering that you have an agenda you decided to act like a spoilt child and insult me.

So are you saying that you are allowed to use previous years levels and even go back as far as 30 years. But I am not allowed to go back less than 10 years?

Then you wonder why I won't sit here like a nodding dog agreeing with whatever you say. I love a good debate. I have even pointed out things in the favour of what you are defending/arguing for. A sharing of knowledge never hurts. But everyone still needs to listen. Nobody knows everything. Look how badly wrong the so called experts seem to be every so often. The last time they got it so wrong wasn't that long ago. It caused a global recession and the banks and house builders still haven't recovered. Some are no longer with us. And others were seriously bailed out.


We have a long way to go in this mess. It hasn't even started yet. There is going to be pain before gain. The debatable part is who will have the most pain. I just hope it doesn't go badly wrong for the countries doing badly in the EU / Euro.

 

[skybluetony176]

I mentioned it a few times just like an adult would. You tried to say that losing over 1/3 of the value in two years wasn't bad or a crash. I asked you about it again. But as you didn't have a good enough answer considering that you have an agenda you decided to act like a spoilt child and insult me.

So are you saying that you are allowed to use previous years levels and even go back as far as 30 years. But I am not allowed to go back less than 10 years?

Then you wonder why I won't sit here like a nodding dog agreeing with whatever you say. I love a good debate. I have even pointed out things in the favour of what you are defending/arguing for. A sharing of knowledge never hurts. But everyone still needs to listen. Nobody knows everything. Look how badly wrong the so called experts seem to be every so often. The last time they got it so wrong wasn't that long ago. It caused a global recession and the banks and house builders still haven't recovered. Some are no longer with us. And others were seriously bailed out.


We have a long way to go in this mess. It hasn't even started yet. There is going to be pain before gain. The debatable part is who will have the most pain. I just hope it doesn't go badly wrong for the countries doing badly in the EU / Euro.

I never said it wasn't bad I said it wasn't a crash. You on the other hand said it was a crash but the cliff we fell off after the brexit vote wasn't. Go figure.

You've been using a couple of years of gradual decline to describe a crash but are in denial of the sudden and dramatic decline in a couple of days being a crash. How can anyone take that seriously?

How's every other currency from around the world stood up to the dollar over the same periods? Has the two year gradual decline been similar for all currency or have we been alone? Is it a gradual collapsing of the pound that's caused this devaluation against the dollar over the last two years or is it the dollar recovering from it's own crash? I suspect the latter. The current crash in the pound however is just that. I keep pointing this out to you but if you look at the pound against every other currency the crash is identical, it's not just the dollar it's against all currency that the pound has crashed against and that's what makes it a crash.

 

[Astute]

I never said it wasn't bad I said it wasn't a crash. You on the other hand said it was a crash but the cliff we fell off after the brexit vote wasn't. Go figure.

You've been using a couple of years of gradual decline to describe a crash but are in denial of the sudden and dramatic decline in a couple of days being a crash. How can anyone take that seriously?

How's every other currency from around the world stood up to the dollar over the same periods? Has the two year gradual decline been similar for all currency or have we been alone? Is it a gradual collapsing of the pound that's caused this devaluation against the dollar over the last two years or is it the dollar recovering from it's own crash? I suspect the latter. The current crash in the pound however is just that. I keep pointing this out to you but if you look at the pound against every other currency the crash is identical, it's not just the dollar it's against all currency that the pound has crashed against and that's what makes it a crash.

OK have it your way. It is a crash. I am so happy that you have shared your knowledge with us. And that you have shown us that you are willing to listen and learn.

Now back to being serious. Nearly all of the fall was value that had gone on depending on the currency we are talking about in the previous 2 months. This went on because the money people got it wrong and expected the remain vote. The one point you will love is that it would have continued to go up. 1.36 euro to 1.50 euro is the range that was expected with the remain vote. As I have said before it is known as a correction.

The Euro is a weak currency. And we will look to be weak until our future is shaped. Then we will race ahead the Euro.

 

[skybluetony176]

OK have it your way. It is a crash. I am so happy that you have shared your knowledge with us. And that you have shown us that you are willing to listen and learn.

Now back to being serious. Nearly all of the fall was value that had gone on depending on the currency we are talking about in the previous 2 months. This went on because the money people got it wrong and expected the remain vote. The one point you will love is that it would have continued to go up. 1.36 euro to 1.50 euro is the range that was expected with the remain vote. As I have said before it is known as a correction.

The Euro is a weak currency. And we will look to be weak until our future is shaped. Then we will race ahead the Euro.

You are funny astute. I haven't shared my wisdom I've provided links to the currency market's and noted the sudden and dramatic linear drop in the value of the pound against everything, not just the dollar. That isn't wisdom, that's just stating the obvious.

 

[Astute]

You are funny astute. I haven't shared my wisdom I've provided links to the currency market's and noted the sudden and dramatic linear drop in the value of the pound against everything, not just the dollar. That isn't wisdom, that's just stating the obvious.

Sorry to state the obvious but you don't seem to have any wisdom to share.

Markets go up and down. The £ went up because the money men knew they were going to get the remain vote that their money making scheme needed. Are you following? They were wrong. So the gains made were lost. Then a bit more on top. Are you still following? The gamble was lost.

It would be like a gambler cleaning up. Starting with 100k and getting it up to half a million. Then making a bet that loses the half a million he had. You would say that he lost half a million. In a way he has. But in the real world he lost 100k.

 

[Captain Dart]

You are funny astute. I haven't shared my wisdom I've provided links to the currency market's and noted the sudden and dramatic linear drop in the value of the pound against everything, not just the dollar. That isn't wisdom, that's just stating the obvious.

You obviously never followed the fluctuations in these things over the last 20, 30 or 40 years.
Chill out, this isn't unusual, in fact as recently as 2008 things looked much worse and most things are better now than they were then.
I suggest you have a look at the historical graphs (over last 50 years) of exchange rates, share indexes, inflation and gilt yields rather than screaming 'We're doomed'.

 

[martcov]

You made out that everything I said was wrong. And when questioned you put a different meaning to it. Yeah.....

I never claimed everything you said was wrong. Sometimes you go on "this will not effect the pound in your pocket" stance - weak is good. Other times you say the Euro is weak and the pound will overtake it - strong is good.

Plus you ask me about populism in Germany and claim I never mention it. I do. And out of interest AfD has down in the polls since Brexit from 14% to 10% and Merkel has become more popular. No-one wants the mess Brexit has caused.

The spoof yamyam party broadcast started with your viewpoint that the UK is ruled by Germany, Angela Meerkat, through Brussels. You actually believe it.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...rows-after-uk-leaves-eu-denmark-a7129426.html

 

[Astute]

You obviously never followed the fluctuations in these things over the last 20, 30 or 40 years.
Chill out, this isn't unusual, in fact as recently as 2008 things looked much worse and most things are better now than they were then.
I suggest you have a look at the historical graphs (over last 50 years) of exchange rates, share indexes, inflation and gilt yields rather than screaming 'We're doomed'.

At the end of 1980 the £ was worth $2.44, but at the start of 1985 it was only worth $1.05 But Tony will tell you it wasn't a crash because it took just over 4 years to happen. In the last 10 years the £went from $2.10 to $1.36 in just 2 years. But Tony says that it wasn't a crash because it took 2 years to happen. Before the referendum the £ strengthened on the expectation of a remain vote. There was a leave vote as we all know. The gains that had been made in the two months previous were lost and a bit more on top depending on the currency used. But Tony tells you that is a crash

 

[Astute]

I never claimed everything you said was wrong. Sometimes you go on "this will not effect the pound in your pocket" stance - weak is good. Other times you say the Euro is weak and the pound will overtake it - strong is good.

Plus you ask me about populism in Germany and claim I never mention it. I do. And out of interest AfD has down in the polls since Brexit from 14% to 10% and Merkel has become more popular. No-one wants the mess Brexit has caused.

The spoof yamyam party broadcast started with your viewpoint that the UK is ruled by Germany, Angela Meerkat, through Brussels. You actually believe it.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...rows-after-uk-leaves-eu-denmark-a7129426.html

Back to twisting words I see.

The stronger / weaker pound affects us all. So where have I ever said differently?

Yes the Euro is weak. And it will remain weak while there are countries tied to it that are in trouble.

I wonder if Juncker wants the mess that Brexit has stirred? His comments have certainly not helped. And many of the leaders of the other EU countries do not agree with him.

Spoof yamyam? I have nothing to do with Brummies

And I congratulate your president Merkels jump in support. So now 48% of you support her.

 

[skybluetony176]

You obviously never followed the fluctuations in these things over the last 20, 30 or 40 years.
Chill out, this isn't unusual, in fact as recently as 2008 things looked much worse and most things are better now than they were then.
I suggest you have a look at the historical graphs (over last 50 years) of exchange rates, share indexes, inflation and gilt yields rather than screaming 'We're doomed'.

The pound is at a 31 year low. How could things have been worse in 2008?

 

[Astute]

The pound is at a 31 year low. How could things have been worse in 2008?

Fuck me this comment takes the biscuit. It shows either how clueless you are or that you will come out with any old bullshit to try and twist the truth.

I will give you a clue Tony. 8 years ago was when the global financial meltdown happened. When very old banking institutions went to the wall. And most of our banks would have followed if our government didn't bail them out to the tune of many, many billions. Housebuilders crashed. But you know that they are still very weak as every hiccup sends their shares down.

I suppose it was easy to forget though Tony

And I forgot to say that it was when the £ lost over a third of its value against the dollar.

 

[Kingokings204]

QUOTE="martcov, post: 1115652, member: 5800"]I never claimed everything you said was wrong. Sometimes you go on "this will not effect the pound in your pocket" stance - weak is good. Other times you say the Euro is weak and the pound will overtake it - strong is good.

Plus you ask me about populism in Germany and claim I never mention it. I do. And out of interest AfD has down in the polls since Brexit from 14% to 10% and Merkel has become more popular. No-one wants the mess Brexit has caused.

The spoof yamyam party broadcast started with your viewpoint that the UK is ruled by Germany, Angela Meerkat, through Brussels. You actually believe it.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...rows-after-uk-leaves-eu-denmark-a7129426.html[/QUOTE]

First of all the polls are not worth the paper they are written on. Did they predict a brexit 52%? Did they predict a Tory majority last year? They are just guesswork based on small sample sizes that people quite often change their mind anyway so polls are a guide at absolute best but quite often wrong.

Germany do quite well out of the Eu I would suggest and don't see why they would have a major problem with it as they pretty much run the rule over every one else. Don't believe me then look at Greece and Italy.

Great Britain you see never entered the euro or the Schegen area the two big hallmarks of the EU so we never did for the model anyway. We WERE a square peg in a round hole. You are either all In or all out.

As explained before Greece and Mediterranean countries don't particularly care for Germany actually as they are not blind also. Britain leaving means someone else has to get the bill? Who do you think will get this? It could wel be Germany as they are the only country with the resource to fill the void. It's just a question of how long German taxpayers want to pay that increasing bill. As for migrant attacks at swimming baths and how they are increasing and sex attacks then it's a time bomb waiting to go off.

In Britain we have just had the honor of leaving first. Britain won't be the last to leave.

 

[Astute]

First of all the polls are not worth the paper they are written on. Did they predict a brexit 52%? Did they predict a Tory majority last year? They are just guesswork based on small sample sizes that people quite often change their mind anyway so polls are a guide at absolute best but quite often wrong.

Germany do quite well out of the Eu I would suggest and don't see why they would have a major problem with it as they pretty much run the rule over every one else. Don't believe me then look at Greece and Italy.

Great Britain you see never entered the euro or the Schegen area the two big hallmarks of the EU so we never did for the model anyway. We WERE a square peg in a round hole. You are either all In or all out.

As explained before Greece and Mediterranean countries don't particularly care for Germany actually as they are not blind also. Britain leaving means someone else has to get the bill? Who do you think will get this? It could wel be Germany as they are the only country with the resource to fill the void. It's just a question of how long German taxpayers want to pay that increasing bill. As for migrant attacks at swimming baths and how they are increasing and sex attacks then it's a time bomb waiting to go off.

In Britain we have just had the honor of leaving first. Britain won't be the last to leave.

As you say it is down to who is asked and where.

So London wanted remain. Scotland wanted remain. So if you would have done polls there you will have most probably got more people saying remain.

It has been said that the younger voters went remain. The older and more knowledgeable in life voted leave. So if you would have done a poll of younger voters in London and Scotland you would have expected a one sided vote. Like what the bookies expected.

 

[Kingokings204]

As you say it is down to who is asked and where.

So London wanted remain. Scotland wanted remain. So if you would have done polls there you will have most probably got more people saying remain.

It has been said that the younger voters went remain. The older and more knowledgeable in life voted leave. So if you would have done a poll of younger voters in London and Scotland you would have expected a one sided vote. Like what the bookies expected.

Which makes the argument for cities and countries voting even more stupid. In fact it actually highlights for me the bigger problems we have in the UK.

Yes it's true Scotland and northern lreland voted remain but they have lowest immigration levels as they are furthest away and there is less jobs than in England for example.

It's also true London and Oxford voted remain where you would associate those places as being very affluent and rich.

Now Sunderland grimsby, Coventry, most of Wales. Even Birmingham and voted leave.

Dress it up however you want but we voted by 1.3 million people to leave in the biggest vote ever had in this country. We voted as a country and take the result as a country. To suggest anything else is actually anti democratic. Richard Branson springs to mind. I would suggest he doesn't really care about people's lives and quality in grimsby when he lives in the carribean and a multi millionnaire. That's the whole point for me. He sums up what's wrong with it.

Look you have a debate and there are two sides to the argument. One will win and one will lose. No draws like football. I just can't help but think it's remain would of voted we wouldn't be having no talk of second referendums and protests and silly childish behavior. Which actually proves the point to me.

 

[Astute]

I just can't help but think it's remain would of voted we wouldn't be having no talk of second referendums and protests and silly childish behavior. Which actually proves the point to me.

Not sure about this point. There is a good chance I would have been pointing out the stupidity of the arguments raised by those wanting the leave vote if we had voted remain

 

[skybluetony176]

Fuck me this comment takes the biscuit. It shows either how clueless you are or that you will come out with any old bullshit to try and twist the truth.

I will give you a clue Tony. 8 years ago was when the global financial meltdown happened. When very old banking institutions went to the wall. And most of our banks would have followed if our government didn't bail them out to the tune of many, many billions. Housebuilders crashed. But you know that they are still very weak as every hiccup sends their shares down.

I suppose it was easy to forget though Tony

And I forgot to say that it was when the £ lost over a third of its value against the dollar.

And despite all that the pound was still stronger than it is today. So I ask again how was it worse? Probably a good idea to point out to you that I was replying to a comment that was made about a comment I made that was specifically about the pound.

 

[martcov]

Back to twisting words I see.

The stronger / weaker pound affects us all. So where have I ever said differently?

Yes the Euro is weak. And it will remain weak while there are countries tied to it that are in trouble.

I wonder if Juncker wants the mess that Brexit has stirred? His comments have certainly not helped. And many of the leaders of the other EU countries do not agree with him.

Spoof yamyam? I have nothing to do with Brummies

And I congratulate your president Merkels jump in support. So now 48% of you support her.

Juncker will go. His position is untennable.
Yamyams are black country...

Merkel is resilient and 48% is amazing considering 1 million refugees in 1 year. The main thing being that the AfD ( our UKIP ) are falling apart after making a tweet about the "national" team losing - there are people of non ethnic German descent ( Boateng gave away a penalty ) - and another MP from the Baden-Würtemburg state parliament saying anti Jewish things in his book.

People are getting worried about increasing nationalist rhetoric and are not impressed with Brexit.

 

[Captain Dart]

The pound is at a 31 year low. How could things have been worse in 2008?

You should have seen the hit my pension funds took!

 

[armybike]

Leadsom to pull out of Tory leadership race.

 

[Astute]

And despite all that the pound was still stronger than it is today. So I ask again how was it worse? Probably a good idea to point out to you that I was replying to a comment that was made about a comment I made that was specifically about the pound.

Only because it was $2.10 to the £ before it started. And ended up $1.36 after 2 years. And all this while the dollar was also very weak.

You just don't have a clue do you?

So to you it doesn't matter about how many people lose their jobs and homes as long as the £ was higher than it is now

 

[martcov]

Which makes the argument for cities and countries voting even more stupid. In fact it actually highlights for me the bigger problems we have in the UK.

Yes it's true Scotland and northern lreland voted remain but they have lowest immigration levels as they are furthest away and there is less jobs than in England for example.

It's also true London and Oxford voted remain where you would associate those places as being very affluent and rich.

Now Sunderland grimsby, Coventry, most of Wales. Even Birmingham and voted leave.

Dress it up however you want but we voted by 1.3 million people to leave in the biggest vote ever had in this country. We voted as a country and take the result as a country. To suggest anything else is actually anti democratic. Richard Branson springs to mind. I would suggest he doesn't really care about people's lives and quality in grimsby when he lives in the carribean and a multi millionnaire. That's the whole point for me. He sums up what's wrong with it.

Look you have a debate and there are two sides to the argument. One will win and one will lose. No draws like football. I just can't help but think it's remain would of voted we wouldn't be having no talk of second referendums and protests and silly childish behavior. Which actually proves the point to me.

Farage said in advance that 52:48 would be unfinished business. He is an expert at silly childish behaviour along with BoJo and I have no doubt they would be making stupid protests if remain had won.

 

[Astute]

Juncker will go. His position is untennable.
Yamyams are black country...

Merkel is resilient and 48% is amazing considering 1 million refugees in 1 year. The main thing being that the AfD ( our UKIP ) are falling apart after making a tweet about the "national" team losing - there are people of non ethnic German descent ( Boateng gave away a penalty ) - and another MP from the Baden-Würtemburg state parliament saying anti Jewish things in his book.

People are getting worried about increasing nationalist rhetoric and are not impressed with Brexit.

Juncker should have gone years ago. But he wants to stay. Who has a big enough say to get rid of him?

Like you say 48% is amazing. Many of the Germans have had enough. And it won't take much trouble to change it again.

Of course many are not impressed with Brexit. Where is the money going to come from that we presently pay in? How big is the UK market to the Germans? And Juncker wants to charge us for selling to the EU. So how much is that going to cost German industries?

Why would the Germans be impressed with Brexit?

 

[Deleted member 5849]

Leadsom to pull out of Tory leadership race.

We hail the May Queen...