The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (16 Viewers)
- Thread starter jimmyhillsfanclub
- Start date
We export large amounts to the EU. Overfishing of certain types has reduced stocks.
We have full employment. How come earnings are still not keeping up with inflation? It cannot be because of over supply of labour.
You will see how fruit and veg prices rise when there are no staff to harvest it.
Grendel
Well-Known Member
There is no point. Your whole preface is that people should not have referendums and choose a party for its manifesto and direction.
There is no doubt if this was THE big issue amongst s majority they would soar to power.
Cameron was elected under the constitution to deliver a yes no referendum. He did. The referendum said no.
I’m afraid you are starting to sound like Italia and the 10,000 parking rule
Think about it.
D
Deleted member 5849
Guest
At which stage, your failure to comprehend the most basic of elements becomes even more pronounced than it usually is.
You're starting to sound like oucho in his attempts to answer a completely different post to that which is actually made, embarking on a tunnel-vision strategy,
Think about it.
Kingokings204
Well-Known Member
No Scotland don’t want independence. They want to stay part of the EU after leaving the UK. That’s not independence is it?
In a recent spell. There are however lots of caveats and potentially negative aspects from the Brexit saga which could effect the pound. The reports also mentioned inflation outstripping wage increases and full employment. Exactly as I have been saying. The pound is still only 1.14 as compared with 1.40 at Brexit day. So, no lies on my part, and I should read the articles before you post them in future.
Brighton Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
1. Successive UK governments allowed the fisheries to be shafted to protect the financial services sector.
2. EU member states are already allowed to send back EU citizens from other member states if they fail to secure work within a specific timeframe. Though as has been pointed out to you already EU immigrants are a net contributor to the economy and most immigration into Britain comes from outside the EU anyway. I suspect it is years of sustained cuts to public spending that have left services at breaking point rather than an influx of net contributors.
3. Corbyn's arguments for leaving but he's sucked off Gerry Adams too many times to be taken seriously. I also fail to see how the pro-corporate Tories will act any more generously to the poorest. They are looking forward to the race to the bottom make no mistake.
Yes. They choose whether they want to pool their sovereignty and don’t let some other country tell them if they can or cannot pool sovereignty. The can always leave the EU at a later date and are therefore sovereign in that scenario. At the moment Scotland is not a sovereign state.
Brighton Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
By what token is the UK not already an independent nation?
Kingokings204
Well-Known Member
The Eu has destroyed our fishing community with its quotas and shared waters policy. Sorry it just has.
Fair point but there is no doubt over supply of non skilled Labour from uncontrolled immigration has stagnated wages and what about the strain on our public services? We are the nhs not the ihs?
African fruit and veg is cheaper than eu fruit and veg but because of tariffs it makes it more expansive meaning we still buy oranges from Spain when if it was free trade we could buy African fruit and veg for cheaper thus affecting poorest in society better.
Kingokings204
Well-Known Member
Our majority of laws and courts are are made and decided elsewhere. The European court of Justice is the highest in the land. That’s not independence.
Legislation that’s affect our country is solely drawn up by the eu commission who aren’t elected and can’t be removed who are based in Brussels.
Fishing quotas provided by the eu mean we can’t catch our fish in our own waters. That’s not independence either.
One minister from 27 countries.
Also interesting in what he said:
„In a separate development, Asscher said that the Netherlands will block any trade deal with the U.K. post-Brexit that does not require the latter to sign up to stringent tax-avoidance rules.“
Now that is more like it. Brexiteers won‘t like that.
So we are leaving, putting the city at risk, creating problems in Ireland etc. in order to help African farmers at The possible expense of our own? And you are upset about the fishing industry?
Sounds like a great plan Boldrick.
Kingokings204
Well-Known Member
Ah so the EU is a disaster for our fishing communities?
I do take the point it’s not a massive industry but it could be and also it’s a large part of the referendum result and with the news today and yesterday the fisheries have been betrayed by gove and May yes.
Brighton Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
Most of our laws are made and decided in Parliament and formally passed by an old woman with a fortunate bloodline
Legislation is drawn up in the Commons and makes its way through several layers of scrutiny before becoming law
UK governments ceded fishing claims to further the interests of financial services. One of several industries shafted for the benefit of one.
Though I will say that EU research grants do tremendous good for innovation in our universities and keep us at the edge of advances in R+D. Not that many people in the UK give a shit in the anti-intellectual post-truth era.
The EU Commission is the civil service and Juncker is elected by an electoral college of the EU Council and confirmed by the EU Parliament. Who elected the UK head of the civil service? The EU Parliament or Council pass the laws. We are members of the parliament and council.
Kingokings204
Well-Known Member
Fair enough and I read your points well but with respect you didn’t directly address my points as my have validity to. It’s up for debate sure but the referendum was all about an individual choice no matter how poor or wealthy that person or who didn’t like the decision or not.
We (hopefully) won’t carry on paying money to an organization that haven’t had their accounts signed off for 20 years. That’s not indepedence also. It’s also not free trade like some claim on here. We pay 10b a year net and they sell us a trade deficit of circa 80b a year. Go figure.
Grendel
Well-Known Member
You said only Britain I repeat Hogwash
torchomatic
Well-Known Member
He seems obsessed with the fishing policy. I wonder if it has anything to do with it being all over the news tonight?
Brighton Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
I addressed them all directly, your first 2 points were either false or a result of British, not European incompetence. As for the third, you are right, the EU is a pro-corporate bloc. The only problem is that the UK is even further in that direction so you'll be quite disappointed if you're expecting some kind of surge in workers' rights and living standards. We are becoming more like America by the day and that is not an encouraging prospect.
SkyblueBazza
Well-Known Member
You mean...you have conceded that there is a remote possibility that it won't go 'pear-shaped'?
That is progress indeed!
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Sick Boy
Super Moderator
Brexit was all about sticking two fingers up to the corrupt Europhile cappuccino swigging liberal elite, giving the money and power back to the ordinary man and stopping EU migrants from Syria coming over here and getting free houses.
It was definitely the intention of the likes of Fox, Patel, Rees-Mogg et Al to make Britain a fairer country and nothing about preserving wealth and attempts at deregulation.
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Sick Boy
Super Moderator
Bloody SISU!!
There are 27 governments and 450 million people in the EU and you quote one minister under pressure from a growing racist party in his country as evidence of a movement against free movement. The general point stands.
What is progress? I have always said no one knows how this will turn out. It may succeed, but at the moment, it is looking more likely to be a cock up. People are no longer mentioning would be economic benefits or clear political benefits. The emphasis is on blaming the EU for housing and NHS under funding - which people are beginning to recognise as dodging government failure -, and on a minority - but respected - fishing industry being traded off for advantages elsewhere.
Does anyone really see the connection between the elitist hedgefund owner Rees Mogg and hardened fishermen? Apart from publicity grabbing actions..
On the other hand, points like tax evasion rules or pooling sovereignty to stand up to USA protectionism or Russian menacing are being played down by the U.K. msm.
Fact check on 80bn trade deficit:
The UK’s trade deficit with the EU
We gain more for our 10bn than it costs. Largely through services. We also have full employment and are still a major economy as a result of membership.
Are you claiming the referendum was people deciding based on economic facts and therefore with the knowledge that poor people could actually make themselves poorer through leaving? If the poor or „just about managing“ voted knowingly against their own interests, it is a very sad situation.
I cannot see how the poor will be better off outside the EU. I don’t get the suppressed wages arguments caused by cheap EU labour because we have full employment. If we had mass unemployment and cheap foreign labour was coming in, I could understand it. Wages are being outpaced by inflation. Unusual in times of full employment.
Has it got more to do with wage capping than the EU? Don’t know, but as I say, I don’t get the apparent failure of supply and demand in the labour market. With almost full employment there must be people short of staff who would pay UK workers more because they need staff. Maybe you could explain?
Yes, but what about rights, benefits etc.? And why not put that in writing? I don’t trust them anyway and have my appointment tomorrow to hand in my forms and documents for German citizenship ( there was a long waiting list ). I then have to wait another couple of months whilst they make extensive checks on me. I want peace of mind. I am certainly not interested in losing the rights that I had from EU membership because of the vote of 17,4 million leavers, especially as I wasn’t even allowed a say on the matter in the referendum. How very democratic. A referendum that directly affects my rights and no right to vote as an expat.
Astute
Well-Known Member
So we should put it in writing when the EU hasn't done the same about Brits living in the EU countries? It needs to be done at the same time to make sure it is the same deal for all. And it is the EU that decides what is spoken about and when. But you already know all that.
You are starting to sound very anti British.
And you want a vote in a country that you left decades ago?
Astute
Well-Known Member
I didn't watch any news. If you look back on this thread you will see that I have mentioned it several times before.
There are both good and bad things about being in the EU. But we are only supposed to mention the good and fudge over the bad.
Sick Boy
Super Moderator
He doesn't sound anti-British at all and millions of people in the country share his sentiments.
Astute
Well-Known Member
So why don't you ever mention the good sides of us leaving? Everything has to be a disaster. Everything is going to end badly. Every good point has to be argued about.
I have said countless times that I think I would be better off if we stay in. I didn't vote leave. But it looks like we are leaving and there is nothing we can do about it. Cameron fucked up. And those who were at least unsure about those running the EU have had their doubts proven to be right.
The EU didn't make us great. We improved the EU. At worse I can see us having a difficult time for a few years. But people want our goods. People want to sell us their goods. Is the EU going to continue to bite thwir nose off to spite their face? We can only guess on that one. But if we were more united it would make those clowns running the EU be more sensible on negotiations.
Astute
Well-Known Member
And even more millions don't.
Grendel
Well-Known Member
No you said Britain only were wrong and now make excuses. Only the Netherlands? Are you sure?
Beware the illiberal alliance of Poland and Hungary, a grave threat to the EU | Will Hutton
Astute
Well-Known Member
Yet all is supposedly well in the EU.
But mass immigration is damaging all harmony in the EU. Something has to change. Political parties that can be seen as racist are coming from nowhere to be the No1 or No2 biggest party throughout the EU. Mart should know this. It has even happened in Germany.
I can see it ending up very badly if it continues.