USSR invades Ukraine. (61 Viewers)

[Brighton Sky Blue]

No I said the ultimate sanction they wouldn’t do and they haven’t

Nah your words were ‘let them get on with it’

 

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[Marty]

Well, been in contact with family in Poland. Basically they have a rucksack ready to go if war breaks out. Reckon they'll have about 12 hours to leave before they're forced to stay and fight. Plan is to make a run for the German border and then eventually here.

 

[David O'Day]

What they want , how Ukraine can remain an independent nation ? The alternative is to see it swallowed up by Russia and not exist , there's also a danger of civil war to discuss as there are many pro Russian Ukrainians..it's a strange region

Why should they bend over and give in?

It's sick to even think they should

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

I think all nato members are treaty bound to assist if Estonia asked for help. Putin knows this.

I understand both sides of the argument and however painful it is I’m really not sure us or any other nato members would currently risk nuclear war by getting involved militarily. We’re hoping the longer game works and fingers crossed it does.

I saw one poll at the very start of the invasion and a majority of people wouldn’t even support sanctions if it increased costs for them personally…yet many would happily send our troops in…I mean WTF ?!! I hope views have changed since then and people accept a bit of extra cost for the greater good…I think the sanctions will work but it will take time

edit - bigger issue in short to medium term is if he starts trying to pick off other smaller non-nato members which he might well try to do

At some point if Putin continues invading wherever he pleases then the risk of nuclear war becomes unavoidable, surely? Or else he simply continues attacking more countries with military impunity

 

[Evo1883]

Why should they bend over and give in?

It's sick to even think they should

It's not , its the only way Ukraine save thousands of lives , its not sick at all , a small country is fighting a mammoth country and the chance of western intervention military wise is slim .. at some point Ukraines leader will have to make a choice ... bravery or saving lives

 

[David O'Day]

Also what to they agree to?

There will be no civil war, the vast majority of them will side with the pro western forces.

 

[Otis]

I think all nato members are treaty bound to assist if Estonia asked for help. Putin knows this.

I understand both sides of the argument and however painful it is I’m really not sure us or any other nato members would currently risk nuclear war by getting involved militarily. We’re hoping the longer game works and fingers crossed it does.

I saw one poll at the very start of the invasion and a majority of people wouldn’t even support sanctions if it increased costs for them personally…yet many would happily send our troops in…I mean WTF ?!! I hope views have changed since then and people accept a bit of extra cost for the greater good…I think the sanctions will work but it will take time

Agree with all this.

Bottom line is, there is no easy answer and every option comes with potential dire consequences.

It's just so hard to sit back and watch people die isn't it, just because of some power mad megalomaniac sitting in Moscow. Even many Russians are saying this isn't an Russian war, it's a Kremlin war.

It's all so very sad.

 

[CCFCSteve]

At some point if Putin continues invading wherever he pleases then the risk of nuclear war becomes unavoidable, surely? Or else he simply continues attacking more countries with military impunity

If he does I’m pretty sure action will be taken but we don’t know yet

 

[Grendel]

Nah your words were ‘let them get on with it’

Yes because the west wouldn’t never cut the gas supplies and oddly that’s pretty much what we are doing and if he succeeds will negotiate a settlement

 

[Evo1883]

Also what to they agree to?

There will be no civil war, the vast majority of them will side with the pro western forces.

Almost 20 % of Ukrainians are ethnically Russian

 

[skybluetony176]

We had the Budapest agreement. Russia wouldn't threaten Ukrainian territorial integrity if it gave up it nuclear weapons. Putin's argument is that he signed that with a pro- Moscow govt and this one isn't. So the treaty is not longer valid.
The territorial arguments that Ukraine historically belongs to Russia he has also repeated about those former Warsaw Pact countries that are now members of NATO.

I think the agreement actually went further than that. The US, us and Russia all signed an agreement to protect Ukraine. Russia currently breaking that agreement. I think there’s also a lesser agreement with other European countries and China to also protect Ukraine.

 

[David O'Day]

It's not , its the only way Ukraine save thousands of lives , its not sick at all , a small country is fighting a mammoth country and the chance of western intervention military wise is slim .. at dome point Ukraines leader will have to make a choice ... bravery or saving lives

so let russia make them a puppet state, fuck that. Yes it is sick to even think people should have to do that

You can join Grenners on the ignore list as frankly i feel grubby now

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

If he does I’m pretty sure action will be taken but we don’t know yet

To be clear, nobody has actually advocated boots on the ground at this point. Air strikes on a huge Russian attack column which is clearly intent on causing equally huge damage is surely not disproportionate?

 

[CCFCSteve]

Agree with all this.

Bottom line is, there is no easy answer and every option comes with potential dire consequences.

It's just so hard to sit back and watch people die isn't it, just because of some power mad megalomaniac sitting in Moscow. Even many Russians are saying this isn't an Russian war, it's a Kremlin war.

It's all so very sad.

We’ve got to somehow bombard Russian media/public with the truth of what’s happening. That’s where this war could be won

 

[Evo1883]

so let russia make them a puppet state, fuck that. Yes it is sick to even think people should have to do that

You can join Grenners on the ignore list as frankly i feel grubby now

Weird way to have a discussion , strange man

 

[David O'Day]

Almost 20 % of Ukrainians are ethnically Russian

yeah and not all of them pro Russia
Bye bye

 

[Evo1883]

yeah and not all of them pro Russia
Bye bye

You sound like a 12 year old .. we are just talking

 

[CCFCSteve]

To be clear, nobody has actually advocated boots on the ground at this point. Air strikes on a huge Russian attack column which is clearly intent on causing equally huge damage is surely not disproportionate?

Im 100% with you in principle. I’ve wanted that 40km convey to be hit all day and for someone to just take Putin out but the reality isn’t as straight forward

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Yes because the west wouldn’t never cut the gas supplies and oddly that’s pretty much what we are doing and if he succeeds will negotiate a settlement

So he’ll use most of his armed forces to conquer a country and then just hand it back? Really?

 

[Otis]

Im 100% with you in principle. I’ve wanted that 40km convey to be hit all day and for someone to just take Putin out but the reality isn’t as straight forward

Same.

 

[Evo1883]

Im 100% with you in principle. I’ve wanted that 40km convey to be hit all day and for someone to just take Putin out but the reality isn’t as straight forward

I think emotionally we are all there tbh , it's just not going to happen

Really shitty situation for Ukraine

 

[Deleted member 9744]

Assemble a UN force to bomb the convoys while they remain exposed

Wouldn't this start WW3? And a nuclear war.

I am not pretending in any way I know the answer to any of this.

 

[David O'Day]

Anyway for the sensible people on here.

Russia aren't going to at the moment accept any "peace agreement" that is short off Ukraine being a puppet state. The people won't accept that and will keep fighting so what doe that achieve? Fuck all really.

The CCFC Neville Chamberlain Supporters Club are clueless

 

[Bugsy]

You sound like a 12 year old .. we are just talking

I've notice there's quite a few of them on this forum at present

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Im 100% with you in principle. I’ve wanted that 40km convey to be hit all day and for someone to just take Putin out but the reality isn’t as straight forward

Putin would become a martyr, if he is to go it must be from a July 20th style coup. Ukraine while ‘small’ in military might is far from small geographically and just allowing it to fall with the aim of persuading Putin to give it back seems insanity quite frankly.

 

[Grendel]

Weird way to have a discussion , strange man

I’m sure David will be volunteering on the front line

 

[Grendel]

So he’ll use most of his armed forces to conquer a country and then just hand it back? Really?

No he will negotiate a settlement including its annexation

 

[David O'Day]

Wouldn't this start WW3? And a nuclear war.

I am not pretending in any way I know the answer to any of this.

No because Russia won't use nuclear weapons as it will end in them being destroyed as well. They still understand MAD

 

[tisza]

If he invaded the Baltic states I highly doubt this defensive alliance would go toe to toe with him over it. We are dealing with someone who has clearly lost control over his senses. With the enormous landmass Russia has he’s got the least to fear of a nuclear attack out of anyone.

He genuinely can use it as a threat to invade wherever he pleases as current developments show

Generally accepted by both sides that a nuclear war is mutually assured destruction.
China only winners as they'll pop across the empty Russian border to help themselves to the energy sources

 

[David O'Day]

I've notice there's quite a few of them on this forum at present

Better to be 12 than a c**t who wants to give Ukraine over to Russia.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

No he will negotiate a settlement including its annexation

If you mean this literally that is just crazy

 

[David O'Day]

Generally accepted by both sides that a nuclear war is mutually assured destruction.
China only winners as they'll pop across the empty Russian border to help themselves to the energy sources

Yeah it's madness that anyone thinks their will be Nuclear War.

If Russia attacks NATO then NATO will defend NATO. NATO/The USA have said this.

If NATO doesn't defend a member state then it ceases to exist.

 

[Bugsy]

Better to be 12 than a c**t who wants to give Ukraine over to Russia.

Calm down dear, who said I wanted that u don't even know my stance on it so don't just presumed David.

 

[Evo1883]

Better to be 12 than a c**t who wants to give Ukraine over to Russia.

The aggression is unwarranted , I don't want to hand Ukraine over to Russia, I'm saying what I think is most likely to happen and probably will eventually happen .

The name calling really isn't necessary

 

[David O'Day]

Calm down dear, who said I wanted that u don't even know my stance on it so don't just presumed David.

I was referring to Evo, better luck next time