skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
Except the ones actually in power. They need reminding from time to time what the principals of the electorate are. If now isn’t the opportune moment to express that publicly I don’t know when is.
USSR invades Ukraine. (22 Viewers)
- Thread starter Alan Dugdales Moustache
- Start date
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
You should tell the woman stuck in France at the moment with her elderly mother who she met there from Ukraine to take her home to England. Her mother was point blank refused entry back to England with her daughter. All over the news this morning. Instead of pandering to her fans on twitter she should do her job and help these people.The government aren’t covering themselves in glory but it doesn’t appear as bad as some are suggest and expected to improve further
Changes to UK visa rules for Ukrainians called ‘shameful’ by Labour | Immigration and asylum | The Guardian
Many close relatives in Ukraine of British nationals do not meet criteria for entry despite No 10 promisesamp.theguardian.com
ps I’d personally be disgusted if they are stopping people joining relatives
clint van damme
Well-Known Member
And 100k got off their arses to show it, fair play to them.
Sky Blue Pete
Well-Known Member
Interesting take. I agree with a lot of it but not all
A friend of a friend wrote this. Very powerful words pertaining to hopeful peace and de escalation.
A very well considered explanation by my friend Shingles Barbarossa.
Thanks for the clarity fella. Peace n love. What is happening in Ukraine is abysmal. Nothing can defend Russia's chauvinistic violence towards a sovereign state and I firmly believe Putin has reached peak insanity. I feel terrible for the people of Ukraine and the advance on Kyiv is a crime. The police crackdown on anti-war protesters in Moscow is equally appalling.
It is however, important to take note of the conditions and events that led to this catastrophe.
What's currently unfolding is not simply because Putin is a nasty man who wants to 'take over the world', nor is it because the West failed to 'stand up to Putin'. The crisis in Ukraine is the result of years and years of geopolitical interference between competing foreign powers in the country's affairs. There was immense US involvement in the Ukraine coup of 2014, which helped give power to several ultra far-right nationalist groups who now hold a substantial level of power in Ukraine's government and military. The coup was soon followed by the Russian annexation of Crimea and everything became more unstable from then on.
Many could rightly argue that Putin's disregard of international law has only been encouraged and abetted by the constant breaking of it by those who claim to uphold it. The invasion of Iraq and Afghanistan by Britain and the US, Israel's continuing bombardment of Gaza and the West Bank, NATO's brutal onslaught against Libya and the never ending arming of Saudi Arabia's war in Yemen are just the tip of the iceberg. Perhaps the relentless NATO bombing of Yugoslavia in the late 90s is the most appropriate example, the bombing campaign went ahead without UN authorisation and was considered by most to be a breach of international law, hundreds of civilians in Belgrade were killed. The majority of Western leaders condemning Russia today seem to have forgotten this even happened. The ongoing legacy of these imperialist disasters should not be brushed under the carpet, they have played a direct role in the development of what we are seeing today.
The Western powers have a long history of breaching the sovereignty of nations that goes back a good few hundred years. But just to give some modern examples over the last 70 years, democratically elected governments have been overthrown by right-wing CIA backed operations in Chile, Bolivia, Iran, Argentina, Egypt, Brazil, Uganda, DRC, and yes, Ukraine. None of this overlooks Russia's share of brutality either. The Soviet invasions of Hungary, Czechoslovakia, and Afghanistan were equally destructive and unlawful, as was Russia's bloodthirsty war against Chechnya in the 90s and 00s, which reduced entire cities to rubble.
Putin's chauvinistic ambitions aside, Russia's security concerns regarding NATO'S expansion are not unjustified. Since the collapse of the USSR, every former Warsaw Pact country and three ex-Soviet states have joined the alliance. For years, there has been an increased build-up of US troops in the Baltic states on Russia's border. if Russia had troops in Mexico there would be an outrage. This is another factor that needs to be taken into account.
Whilst NATO is appearing not to intervene in Ukraine directly, there has still been keen talk amongst western officials wishing for direct conflict with Russia. A particularly disturbing example was given by Ben Wallace on Wednesday when he claimed that the UK had 'kicked Russia's backside in the past and will do it again'. This reference and celebration of the Crimean War of the 1850s is a keen endorsement of British imperialism and shows a hunger for direct warfare.
If NATO did decide to intervene directly against Russia then it'll be a direct conflict between two heavily armed nuclear powers. That's nothing to joke about.
I know it's easy to be confused at such an unsettling time, but before people start lining up behind the war drums in the drive towards a larger conflict against Russia, it's important to remember that ultimately this conflict has emerged as a result of the crises within imperialism and global capitalism. Western domination is under threat, Covid has pushed global capitalism to a breaking point, we're experiencing the results of the collapse of an extremely contradictory system. Perhaps Putin's increased violence and recklessness is out of fear of his own failing rule coming under threat from his own people. The conditions that led to this crisis will not be solved by sanctions, NATO intervention or expansion, identity politics, or nationalism because these factors helped create these conditions to begin with.
Nevertheless, what Russia is doing is abhorrent. This is a horrible situation for the people of Ukraine and the results from this conflict will be horrific, no matter who wins. My thoughts go out to them.
A friend of a friend wrote this. Very powerful words pertaining to hopeful peace and de escalation.
A very well considered explanation by my friend Shingles Barbarossa.
Thanks for the clarity fella. Peace n love. What is happening in Ukraine is abysmal. Nothing can defend Russia's chauvinistic violence towards a sovereign state and I firmly believe Putin has reached peak insanity. I feel terrible for the people of Ukraine and the advance on Kyiv is a crime. The police crackdown on anti-war protesters in Moscow is equally appalling.
It is however, important to take note of the conditions and events that led to this catastrophe.
What's currently unfolding is not simply because Putin is a nasty man who wants to 'take over the world', nor is it because the West failed to 'stand up to Putin'. The crisis in Ukraine is the result of years and years of geopolitical interference between competing foreign powers in the country's affairs. There was immense US involvement in the Ukraine coup of 2014, which helped give power to several ultra far-right nationalist groups who now hold a substantial level of power in Ukraine's government and military. The coup was soon followed by the Russian annexation of Crimea and everything became more unstable from then on.
Many could rightly argue that Putin's disregard of international law has only been encouraged and abetted by the constant breaking of it by those who claim to uphold it. The invasion of Iraq and Afghanistan by Britain and the US, Israel's continuing bombardment of Gaza and the West Bank, NATO's brutal onslaught against Libya and the never ending arming of Saudi Arabia's war in Yemen are just the tip of the iceberg. Perhaps the relentless NATO bombing of Yugoslavia in the late 90s is the most appropriate example, the bombing campaign went ahead without UN authorisation and was considered by most to be a breach of international law, hundreds of civilians in Belgrade were killed. The majority of Western leaders condemning Russia today seem to have forgotten this even happened. The ongoing legacy of these imperialist disasters should not be brushed under the carpet, they have played a direct role in the development of what we are seeing today.
The Western powers have a long history of breaching the sovereignty of nations that goes back a good few hundred years. But just to give some modern examples over the last 70 years, democratically elected governments have been overthrown by right-wing CIA backed operations in Chile, Bolivia, Iran, Argentina, Egypt, Brazil, Uganda, DRC, and yes, Ukraine. None of this overlooks Russia's share of brutality either. The Soviet invasions of Hungary, Czechoslovakia, and Afghanistan were equally destructive and unlawful, as was Russia's bloodthirsty war against Chechnya in the 90s and 00s, which reduced entire cities to rubble.
Putin's chauvinistic ambitions aside, Russia's security concerns regarding NATO'S expansion are not unjustified. Since the collapse of the USSR, every former Warsaw Pact country and three ex-Soviet states have joined the alliance. For years, there has been an increased build-up of US troops in the Baltic states on Russia's border. if Russia had troops in Mexico there would be an outrage. This is another factor that needs to be taken into account.
Whilst NATO is appearing not to intervene in Ukraine directly, there has still been keen talk amongst western officials wishing for direct conflict with Russia. A particularly disturbing example was given by Ben Wallace on Wednesday when he claimed that the UK had 'kicked Russia's backside in the past and will do it again'. This reference and celebration of the Crimean War of the 1850s is a keen endorsement of British imperialism and shows a hunger for direct warfare.
If NATO did decide to intervene directly against Russia then it'll be a direct conflict between two heavily armed nuclear powers. That's nothing to joke about.
I know it's easy to be confused at such an unsettling time, but before people start lining up behind the war drums in the drive towards a larger conflict against Russia, it's important to remember that ultimately this conflict has emerged as a result of the crises within imperialism and global capitalism. Western domination is under threat, Covid has pushed global capitalism to a breaking point, we're experiencing the results of the collapse of an extremely contradictory system. Perhaps Putin's increased violence and recklessness is out of fear of his own failing rule coming under threat from his own people. The conditions that led to this crisis will not be solved by sanctions, NATO intervention or expansion, identity politics, or nationalism because these factors helped create these conditions to begin with.
Nevertheless, what Russia is doing is abhorrent. This is a horrible situation for the people of Ukraine and the results from this conflict will be horrific, no matter who wins. My thoughts go out to them.
I’ve just said I’d be disgusted if people are stopped from joining their relatives
My understanding is that Ukrainians can join relatives in the Uk ? I’m wondering if the insensitive border agency official quoted in the article is the issue
Alan Dugdales Moustache
Well-Known Member
So you want this to ultimately end in hundreds of millions dead . You actually want the worst possible scenario to unfold.
I want the Ukrainians, backed by NATO military hardware,, to give Russia a bloody nose, for the people of Russia to somehow rise up enough for Putin to see sense in the face of mobilisation of the buffer counties' defences, and to stop.
It may not happen but the alternative is World War 3.
Where did I say that? + 100s of millions won't die if no-one has nukes, Russians would cowar and surrender as soon as they seen NATO marching in.
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
Talks agreed on the Belarus border tomorrow morning. Something to be hopeful about I suppose.
Can someone please explain to me why this analogy makes any sense? I keep seeing it, but it seems totally ridiculous and reductive.
I also fail to see what Ukraine did to deserve being stripped of the right to even apply for NATO membership (beyond get invaded, of course).
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
James Cleverly looking a complete c**t on C4 news.
Saddlebrains
Well-Known Member
So is he going to nuke us and kill us all or not?
David O'Day
Well-Known Member
Turkey have finally agreed to close off the black sea
I would guess not. But it’s certainly in Putin’s interests to have us believe he might.
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
Trump being a genius again
clint van damme
Well-Known Member
Fixed.
clint van damme
Well-Known Member
Sky Blue Pete
Well-Known Member
I don’t know if I agree but I think it’s part of the wider geopolitical wellbeing that needs to be managed sensitively and slowly
I’m sorry, what?
Tommo1993
Well-Known Member
Whereabouts? (Other than the Sky!)
clint van damme
Well-Known Member
I don't know where you live!
Edit - just seen Tommo beat me in the smart arse stakes
shmmeee
Well-Known Member
Just saw four planes in formation over Kenilworth if that helps.
Langers70
Well-Known Member
Bell Green....makes sense to have patrols with air space closed though.
Langers70
Well-Known Member
Makes sense to have patrols with this going on
Sanctions really stepping up over the last 24 hours:
- EU closing airspace to Russian planes
- BP divesting its stake in Rosneft
- Russian banks to be barred from SWIFT
- Russian central bank’s overseas reserves frozen (this one is the real killer)
- Germany to ramp up its military spending and fund Ukraine’s army
I know some people think Putin doesn’t care about any of this and it’s all irrelevant, but this is going to cause serious pain for ordinary Russians. Let’s see how long they put up with it.
- EU closing airspace to Russian planes
- BP divesting its stake in Rosneft
- Russian banks to be barred from SWIFT
- Russian central bank’s overseas reserves frozen (this one is the real killer)
- Germany to ramp up its military spending and fund Ukraine’s army
I know some people think Putin doesn’t care about any of this and it’s all irrelevant, but this is going to cause serious pain for ordinary Russians. Let’s see how long they put up with it.
Sky Blue Pete
Well-Known Member
Sovereign countries can do what the hell they like within international law but need to be sensitive to the needs of other countries. Much like individual human beings really . When you break laws to suit one’s own aims others who we may disagree with may do similar with results that may not sit well
Bugsy
Well-Known Member
Standard procedure in Bell Green these days lol
Sky Blue Pete
Well-Known Member
Is bbc news on line not working for anyone else?
David O'Day
Well-Known Member
eu have banned rt and sputnik
You’ve totally lost me. Are you saying Ukraine should have been more sensitive to Russia in all this?