Covstu
Well-Known Member
Alot of people on here were very vocal and critical about Northampton taking us in during this time!!
Wasps in talks to takeover Ricoh (5 Viewers)
- Thread starter SimonGilbert
- Start date
Alot of people on here were very vocal and critical about Northampton taking us in during this time!!
Warwickhunt
Well-Known Member
The wasps if serious that is and not using this to get a better deal at Wycombe, will do due dilligence from which their finance team will establish the true worth of what they are buying (not what ACL/HIGGS/CCC say its worth) to which they will probably not offer much more than SISU offered them? (still no Freehold on the table is there?)
J
Jack Griffin
Guest
Isn't that essentially the problem about Fottball in this country... money is all that matters. Reform is needed.. and Damien Collins has been campaigning for some time, sadly it isn't looking like there will be changes anytime soon.
Otis
Well-Known Member
Just don't detect much hypocrisy at all. You'll always get the odd poster here and there, but only the whole here I would say a huge majority are not in favour of this at all.
And to reiterate, I would only be in favour if this benefitted CCFC and then only of Cov rugby had no objections to it. If it suited all parties then that would be okay.
Would also though very much like to know what Wasps fans feel about it. Don't know much about them at all, but reading MMM's comments, it seems like they are a bit of a nomadic club anyway.
Does sound completely odd and wrong though for London Wasps to play in Coventry.
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Otis
Well-Known Member
I know they were, Stu. Think they were blaming the wrong people though. Business people will always make decisions that make business like sense. They are not interested in the fans.
Northampton Town didn't really do much wrong at all to be honest.
Agreed. Its also time to secure the long term stability of ccfc at the Ricoh. Pressure needed on ACL/CCC/ccfc for discussions on leasehold ownership. At least some answers to whether they have all grown up enough to be able to contemplate the idea. No to wasps!!!!
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
seems to me we have 2 off field battles on our hands as fans
1) pressure ACL, Higgs and CCC to stop communicating with another sports franchise while 2) we pressure our wonderful ownwers to stop fucking around and get serious about ACL before the ship has sailed.
the joys of being a CCFC fan. it really shouldn't be this difficult.
1) pressure ACL, Higgs and CCC to stop communicating with another sports franchise while 2) we pressure our wonderful ownwers to stop fucking around and get serious about ACL before the ship has sailed.
the joys of being a CCFC fan. it really shouldn't be this difficult.
Indeed it shouldn't - still looking forward to the game tomorrow though
Just to be clear about the Wasps that are (perhaps) proposing to relocate to the Ricoh - this is Wasps RFC and that club has been in existence for less than 20 years. They have never had a settled home where they could build up a loyal and local fan base. They have this year dropped the London prefix.
The original club, Wasps FC, is still playing amateur rugby.
The original club, Wasps FC, is still playing amateur rugby.
Hobo
Well-Known Member
I haven't seen any post on here saying franchising is okay. The problem we have Torch is ACL are not a sports team, they are a business with a venue to hire with a mortgage to pay. The local football club has passed up on a very good option to buy a share in the venue. They broke a legal contract and moved their business away. They came back because they could not afford the move because of the majority of fans refused to go. The local club are still insistent that they are going to build a new stadium. ACL are therefore duty bound to look for other customers.
People have confused a refusal to sell to the local football club, with SISU eroding any confidence people had in their integrity and intent.
The other side of the rumour is Wasps are also looking at a venue in Birmingham.
DazzleTommyDazzle
Well-Known Member
In the euphoria of coming back to the Ricoh, one or two did warn that this was only a short term solution and there could still be problems ahead.
We are still experiencing the fallout from SISU's attempts to play hardball over the stadium - as Lou Reed said " Reap, reap, reap, what you sow" (although I believe the phrase may have been used elsewhere before.....).
We either need to SISU to make a serious attempt to purchase the stadium or ACL (i.e. stop pretending it's about to go bust etc.), or they really do have to get on with building the new stadium.
We are still experiencing the fallout from SISU's attempts to play hardball over the stadium - as Lou Reed said " Reap, reap, reap, what you sow" (although I believe the phrase may have been used elsewhere before.....).
We either need to SISU to make a serious attempt to purchase the stadium or ACL (i.e. stop pretending it's about to go bust etc.), or they really do have to get on with building the new stadium.
Mary_Mungo_Midge
Well-Known Member
Okay; just to cap off my thoughts on the Coventry Rugby vs. Wasps debate. You have to bear in mind, that Coventry Rugby Club are not anything like living in the glory days of times past. David Duckham, Paul Knee, Steve Brain, 'Electric' Eddie Saunders or 'Cockers' are long since gone...
The AVIVA Premiership is at the top tier of the national league game, followed by the Greene King IPA Championship, then National League 1, National League 2 North and National League 2 South. Coventry are currently mid-table (early in the season) in National 1. The gaps between the leagues are huge - as in football. In order to try and draw parallels, Wasps would be like Arsenal (with Champions League qualification), and Coventry Rugby Club now like, say, Preston.
My personal view - and this is my view alone - is that Wasps playing at the Ricoh wouldn't be necessarily a bad thing for Coventry RFC. My understanding is that it would be for high-profile games, maybe domestic like - Northampton or Leicester; but primarily European games like Toulon, Toulouse, etc. Is this really, truly, in competition with Coventry against Hartpury College? I can't see it.
I would - however - like to think that any occasional involvement with high-profile rugby at the Ricoh should benefit the local rugby club. These big games are often timed for TV coverage; Friday evening, Saturday evening and Sundays; and there would be football fixturing to consider to. As such, for when there were 'clashes' - which would only be a few times a season, I'm sure - I can't see why a double header day couldn't be considered, with Coventry RFU playing first at the Ricoh ahead of the big game. There was one such double-header at Twickenham a few weeks back; they're hugely popular. Such a profile of game would - in my view - actually encourage player development at Coventry, not discourage it. If this could be combined with shared training, and/or shared player development - again it could be good for the local team.
That's just my view on the CFRC position. Do I like the idea of this sort of thing? No; but..... I have to be honest.....
... would I love to see high profile European rugby at the Ricoh? For so many reasons I have to say yes, I'd love it. Would I want it via a move such as this? Personally, no
The AVIVA Premiership is at the top tier of the national league game, followed by the Greene King IPA Championship, then National League 1, National League 2 North and National League 2 South. Coventry are currently mid-table (early in the season) in National 1. The gaps between the leagues are huge - as in football. In order to try and draw parallels, Wasps would be like Arsenal (with Champions League qualification), and Coventry Rugby Club now like, say, Preston.
My personal view - and this is my view alone - is that Wasps playing at the Ricoh wouldn't be necessarily a bad thing for Coventry RFC. My understanding is that it would be for high-profile games, maybe domestic like - Northampton or Leicester; but primarily European games like Toulon, Toulouse, etc. Is this really, truly, in competition with Coventry against Hartpury College? I can't see it.
I would - however - like to think that any occasional involvement with high-profile rugby at the Ricoh should benefit the local rugby club. These big games are often timed for TV coverage; Friday evening, Saturday evening and Sundays; and there would be football fixturing to consider to. As such, for when there were 'clashes' - which would only be a few times a season, I'm sure - I can't see why a double header day couldn't be considered, with Coventry RFU playing first at the Ricoh ahead of the big game. There was one such double-header at Twickenham a few weeks back; they're hugely popular. Such a profile of game would - in my view - actually encourage player development at Coventry, not discourage it. If this could be combined with shared training, and/or shared player development - again it could be good for the local team.
That's just my view on the CFRC position. Do I like the idea of this sort of thing? No; but..... I have to be honest.....
... would I love to see high profile European rugby at the Ricoh? For so many reasons I have to say yes, I'd love it. Would I want it via a move such as this? Personally, no
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Sky Blue Dal
Well-Known Member
oh Shit looks like the sell out crowd against Gillingham has made them realise the potential of the city of Coventry has to offer, allowing them to build a larger fan base compared to the other places they have played there home games in.
Think us CCFC fans may have shot our self in the foot.
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spider_ricoh
New Member
I hope to God that ACL sell up to Wasps - it will serve SISU right and probably see them off for good. CCFC under new owners can always buy a share back of Wasps in the future. Priority is getting rid of SISU so it this helps, it has to be a good thing.
Mary_Mungo_Midge
Well-Known Member
It would only likely be these big European games though - remember that.
Nick Eastwood, in his programme notes entitled 'CEO's Welcome' a few weeks back stated: "Everyone associated with the club appreciates the last couple of weeks have been unsettling for our supporters, following media speculation as to where our future home may lie. I also understand it is frustrating that we are not yet in a position to communicate further details. We have been exploring a number of options both inside and outside of London, looking at every possibility and considering the best option for the long term success of the Club. We have also been exploring opportunities for high profile European games, should we progress to the knock out stages, as those games have to be played at a stadium which has a minimum capacity of 15,000."
So, with regards 'playing' at Coventry, I think you're really only looking at these 'big games'. Wasps against London Irish, as a regular league game, would make no sense whatsoever at the Ricoh. And let's not forget, a few rugby teams have been nomadic with these big fixtures in recent times. Just because Wasps - maybe - decide to centre all such games at the Ricoh, doesn't make it a per se 'move'. If in doing ay research for any such plan, they see a strategic investment opportunity, such as the Ricoh, then they're ever liable to have a look. But if they can make it work - so can SISU. Over to you Fisher.
Also worth noting that Worcester would complain. You may ask why/ well, they have invested £1.5M in six regional academy centres as part of a scheme launched in May of this year, with two of the centres in Birmingham and Coventry. It's unlikely they would consider a permanent move a bundle of chuckles; and the RFU generally show more fortitude then the FL...
Nick Eastwood, in his programme notes entitled 'CEO's Welcome' a few weeks back stated: "Everyone associated with the club appreciates the last couple of weeks have been unsettling for our supporters, following media speculation as to where our future home may lie. I also understand it is frustrating that we are not yet in a position to communicate further details. We have been exploring a number of options both inside and outside of London, looking at every possibility and considering the best option for the long term success of the Club. We have also been exploring opportunities for high profile European games, should we progress to the knock out stages, as those games have to be played at a stadium which has a minimum capacity of 15,000."
So, with regards 'playing' at Coventry, I think you're really only looking at these 'big games'. Wasps against London Irish, as a regular league game, would make no sense whatsoever at the Ricoh. And let's not forget, a few rugby teams have been nomadic with these big fixtures in recent times. Just because Wasps - maybe - decide to centre all such games at the Ricoh, doesn't make it a per se 'move'. If in doing ay research for any such plan, they see a strategic investment opportunity, such as the Ricoh, then they're ever liable to have a look. But if they can make it work - so can SISU. Over to you Fisher.
Also worth noting that Worcester would complain. You may ask why/ well, they have invested £1.5M in six regional academy centres as part of a scheme launched in May of this year, with two of the centres in Birmingham and Coventry. It's unlikely they would consider a permanent move a bundle of chuckles; and the RFU generally show more fortitude then the FL...
Sky Blue Dal
Well-Known Member
Remember.. there is still the Higgs share for the new owners to grab.
Kingokings204
Well-Known Member
Torch is famous for being a poor mans Grendel. No one has ever said this is ok and fwiw it doesn't seem to add up. It just seems the CT are running a possible scenario to fill column inches and create a story. It gets people talking look at this thread for example.
Will it ever happen? Probably not. It's a "possible scenario with possible being "5-10%." It's to sells papers and gets people clicking and talking.
Hopefully they will push sisu into bidding a sensible offer. 5.5m 3 years ago seems a bargain to me. Torch keeps saying how "the Ricoh isn't for sale" ffs man it is we all know it is. ACL as a business has always been there to purchase in to one way or the other it's the freehold the council will never sell to anyone but yes ACL were only designed to see through the initial opening of the stadium. Look at Higgs didn't they quote as saying they didn't think they would still be involve in the Ricoh come 2013-2014. They are a kids charity they don't want to be fucking around with a struggling football club. They bought into it to save our arse and then we spunked their money to.
If you offered 5-6m to the Higgs now I bet they would take it but if you don't ask and don't offer then how can it be bought.
All this wasps talk needs to have the sting taken out of it. It's a "possible scenario" not a probable one. Just like Manchester United moving to the Ricoh. That's possible but is it probable?
For all we know stuff may be happening we don't know. The Ricoh arena is Coventry taxpayers so they can justify any decsion that makes Coventry better and makes them money. We are lucky as ccfc has a big part to play in the city and that's why we are back. We aren't just back because sisu wanted to we are also back because ACL let us. Sisu still have current legals ongoing which is crazy and they could easily tell sisu and us to do one. Who could blame them? I wouldn't. I love the fact we are home and that take presidence above anything but looking at the situation of ACL and sisu in court still is crazy tbh.
They should do this year 2014
What should of happened 2-3 years ago and sisu buy the Higgs share and secure the long term future of the club. This way the Higgs get their money back and can be released from this torture and as fans we can look forward to a long secure future. I don't see another way forward.
You could argue to build the new stadium when obviously there is no evidence and it's a lie but how much would this cost and where? Outside of Coventry likely and around 25m for a 12-15k stadium when you could get 50% share in a 32k stadium for around 6m? It won't happen as long as I have a hole in my arse.
MichaelCCFC
New Member
The arguments between City fans, sisu and FL being London based, sisu refusing to engage in any rational discussion, arguments about whether to use the hill as a protest/pack out sixfields/ etc etc all made the sixfields campaign really difficult. Campaigning in Coventry with fans united, being able to lobby local councillors (and a third are up for re-election in May 2015 plus sitting MPs and their challengers across Cov and Warks could get dragged in?) means the logistics and tactics are much more straightforward. There were also plenty of people who wanted to set up picket lines at sixfields and disrupt games whether with throwing tennis balls or getting on the pitch. I always said they were the wrong tactics for sixfields and will always argue for 100% peaceful and lawful action but if tempers fray and action is a lot closer to home it might be a lot harder to dissuade people.
MichaelCCFC
New Member
I know my answer but you're probably as sick of hearing it as I am of repeating it! You're a City fan so I'd say forget for a minute what all the other parties want and think solely as a fan and decide what your vision for a successful ccfc is. You then work towards that as a long term goal and in the meantime fight against anything that goes counter to achieving the vision of a better future for ccfc
Otis
Well-Known Member
This is an entirely different situation we have here though compared to the Sixfields thing.
Here we have a football club that seem to be totally adamant they are moving away from the Ricoh. Lost count now of how many times they've said 'that boat has sailed' and that they are building a new stadium.
What we need to focus on here is not one of trying to stop Wasps from coming in, but one of making sure Coventry City FC remain.
Mary_Mungo_Midge
Well-Known Member
Absolutely; the Wasps deal - for high profile games - is an additional income to the 365-days-a-year revenues Fisher keeps on bleating on about. If a controlling investment makes sense to Wasps, why can't it make sense to 'cash rich' SISU too? The best scenario, again purely from a business perspective with a personal skew, is for SISU (or the club's owners) to own a controlling share in the venue, and use incomes from events such as this to help their business case, and count towards turnover; which in turn benefits the football club's obligations toward FFP?!?
Then, I can go and watch Toulon play in Coventry with a clear conscience, knowing I'd actually be benefitting the football club too. What a halcyon dream.....
MichaelCCFC
New Member
The common thread is that we're in the hands of two companies whose interest is their own profit not the team and fans. So whether it's moving to ntfc or bringing in a new anchor tenant, it's about company profits not what is best for the team and fans. The only people who are going to fight this is fans - we've learnt the hard way to expect nothing from the football authorities and govt. In the short-term we should be saying to acl-sisu to stop this nonsense about building a new stadium/getting a new tenant, show respect for SP, the team and fans, and start the slow process of building a successful future for ccfc which will benefit acl and sisu. The first way of doing that would be for acl-sisu to make a joint public statement saying they will work together and that they will not pursue a new stadium/new tenant
oldskyblue58
CCFC Finance Director
fernandopartridge
Well-Known Member
They're the sky blues again now and not Otium. That's a relief.
Sky Blue Dal
Well-Known Member
fernandopartridge
Well-Known Member
What if the deal with Wasps is worth less than the previous offer from SISU?
Until there's any official comment from either London Wasps, ACL or CCC on the matter I remain hopeful that some sense will be found in the situation. For Wasps to permanently play in Coventry is an abhorration.
One point of confusion I find is that on Sunday at Adams Park they only managed to two-thirds fill a 10,000 capacity ground against the league Champions - what is this likely to drop to if they were to play all of their home games 75 miles north of 'home', how ridiculous would that be in the Ricoh. Something doesn't add up.
18 months ago they almost went out of business as they've been making losses for years on end now, there's no reason why (presuming CCFC actually want a stake) we would be outmuscled financially - obviously the wider issue remains with the legal action. Hopefully this will be the kick up the arse the club needs, if it has ever been serious about owning the ground and accessing revenue 365 days a year then now is the time to put up, shut up, or show some concrete evidence that a new ground isn't a pie in the sky bargaining tool.
One point of confusion I find is that on Sunday at Adams Park they only managed to two-thirds fill a 10,000 capacity ground against the league Champions - what is this likely to drop to if they were to play all of their home games 75 miles north of 'home', how ridiculous would that be in the Ricoh. Something doesn't add up.
18 months ago they almost went out of business as they've been making losses for years on end now, there's no reason why (presuming CCFC actually want a stake) we would be outmuscled financially - obviously the wider issue remains with the legal action. Hopefully this will be the kick up the arse the club needs, if it has ever been serious about owning the ground and accessing revenue 365 days a year then now is the time to put up, shut up, or show some concrete evidence that a new ground isn't a pie in the sky bargaining tool.
Otis
Well-Known Member
Good article it is too.
Coventry City can only blame themselves
The crowd at the floodlit Ricoh Arena The proposed deal for Wasps to buy a controlling stake in the company that runs the Ricoh Arena has quickly dashed any hopes of a lasting peace between the owners of Coventry City and ACL.
Why did we think it would be any different?
When the Coventry Telegraph declared it was time to #bringCityhome we said that despite the bad blood between the two sides, everyone had to move on.
Of course not everyone did. Sisu are still pursuing the council in an expensive legal battle they have already comprehensively lost once and in which they have criticised by a judge for trying to “distress ACL’s financial position, with a view to driving down the value of ACL and thus the price of a share in it”.
And that’s the real problem here. After being subjected to a sustained legal and financial assault it can hardly be a revelation that Coventry
City Council and the Alan Edwards Higgs Charity don’t fancy selling their ACL shares to Sisu and have decided to move on with another buyer.
When the Alan Edwards Higgs Charity bailed out the Sky Blues in 2003 and bought their half share in ACL they did so with the intention of selling it back. A formula was even agreed to fix the price.
Sisu and the charity did try to do a deal – with the consent of the council – in 2012 but it fell apart because, in the words of a judge , “neither party had any appetite to seek to pursue negotiations or seek to conclude such a deal.”
The club have wasted ELEVEN years in which they could and should have coughed up for a stake in the stadium they call home.
That ship looks to have sailed and instead they could now find themselves, at best, as tenants in their home city to a club from a different sport and a different part of the country who will churn up the pitch every other week during the season.
Good luck to Steven Pressley and the passing game he demands from the team. And good luck to Coventry Rugby Club, steadily and lovingly being rebuilt in the third tier of English rugby but now waiting for a top-flight side to land on their doorstep.
So what - or where - next for Coventry City?
The two-year deal agreed for the Ricoh return gives short-term security but we don’t know the detail of the two-year option that follows and the future is now far from certain.
They started talking about building a new stadium more than year ago but, despite promises from directors that they hoped to announce a site last September and then January, we still have no idea where that may be.
There has been a change in language from the club this year, with the message that the Sky Blues need to ‘own’ their own stadium - the word build, whether deliberately or not, seemingly dropped like an out-of-favour player.
Maybe, having bought a controlling stake in the Ricoh, Wasps will want to cash in by becoming partners with their tenants, or maybe they’ll want to up the rent.
There was a theory among some fans that if Sisu got their hands on the Ricoh they would have something to sell and those wanting them out of the club would get their way.
There isn’t a long queue of people wanting to buy a League One club that doesn’t own its own ground. Equally, if it’s not an attractive proposition for potential owners, how attractive will be it for Sisu’s investors (£40m lost and counting) if they lose their last-chance legal fight at the Court of Appeal?
That great night at the Ricoh on September 5 suddenly seems an awfully long time ago.
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covcity4life
Well-Known Member
exactly
the council lvoers have shown their true colours in this thread
not ccfc fans at all.
Johnnythespider
Well-Known Member
Ok I haven't read all 34 pages because I cba , but is there any chance this could be a double whammy with wasps buying into the Ricoh and also taking over from otium in a buy out. Then operating both teams in the one stadium. If this has already been covered please accept my humblest apologies.
covcity4life
Well-Known Member
from the sounds of your recent posts when wasps buy ricoh it will be a better night for you.
Otis
Well-Known Member
Trouble is, no-one has said what Torch has put.
And as has been said numerous times on this thread, it is Sisu who are saying they are not staying at the Ricoh and are moving elsewhere. That totally moves the goalposts on this issue.
No-one has said it's okay for Wasps to come here, all they have said is they can understand why ACL would be looking for a replacement for CCFC if they insist on leaving.
Can't see anyone being a council lover on this one I'm afraid. A lot of spin doctoring going on here me thinks.
covcity4life
Well-Known Member
disappointed in you otis
we may have argued in past but i always thought you loved ccfc more than council
we may have argued in past but i always thought you loved ccfc more than council
Otis
Well-Known Member
Based on what? Based on the countless times I've said I would be opposed to it? :thinking about:
I would only approve if it benefitted all parties. Have made that crystal clear, you WUM!
:slap:
Hobo
Well-Known Member
It is nothing to do with council love it is to do with looking at things objectively, looking at the real problems our club faces. Otis is right SISU have squandered 11 good years of opportunity to buy into the Ricoh by dicking everyone around.
They are still adamant the return to the Ricoh is fairly short term, they are building their own stadium. This problem has always been driven largely by SISU.