skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
Again. What does “mainstream” mean? Quantify it.
Oh Jeremy Corbyn (47 Viewers)
- Thread starter torchomatic
- Start date
Again. What does “mainstream” mean? Quantify it.
Sick Boy
Super Moderator
What's wrong with being anti-monarchy?!!
Astute
Well-Known Member
Is that right?
From the way you have worded it you have read quickly and guessed a lot and made some up.
So answer why it is good he chose Jewdas?
And why have Jewish Labour benefactors let know about their disgust on the matter?
Oh yes I forgot you know more than them.
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
So ultra Orthodox Jews are racist then? A throwaway remark. It’s ideology you idiot and not one shared unanimously by the Jewish faith. Racism has nothing to do with it.
Astute
Well-Known Member
How about the other points?
Astute
Well-Known Member
Would have done if it helped you make your stupid points that the vast majority of Jews disagree with
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
Because they’re Zionist. It’s not a case of knowing more it’s a case of understanding one very simple point. Anti Zionism is not anti Semitic.
Sick Boy
Super Moderator
Avoiding the question, I see. Not being a supporter of the monarchy is not a crime.
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
Again. Define the vast majority of Jews? Quantify that statement. I’ve asked you three times now to do that and you haven’t.
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
Vast majority? Again quantify this statement.
Astute
Well-Known Member
Orthodox Jews will tell you that they are mainstream. Mainstream will tell you that Orthodox Jews used to be mainstream. So it depends who you ask. But myself I link both sections.
Astute
Well-Known Member
Jewdas is a recent made up group as you know. The vast majority do not agree with a lot of what they say or.do.
How about you explaining yourself for once.
Astute
Well-Known Member
And disagreeing with one point doesn't mean all points are wrong either. Makes deflection a possibility though I see.
Astute
Well-Known Member
Meeting up with the IRA wasn't a crime.
Having sympathy for IRA members that lost their lives but never mentioning people who lost their lives from their actions including women and children wasn't a crime.
Meeting up with other terririst groups wasn't a crime.
Meeting up with a Russian spy wasn't a crime.
Meeting up with the extreme left of the Jewish people wasn't a crime.
But it also doesn't make him the person to lead the party I want in power. And you are a fool if you think that I am alone.
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
Some Orthodox Jews will tell you that they’re mainstream and they are split on Zionism, the majority of liberal Jews will tell you that they’re mainstream and will be Zionist, Ultra-Orthodox Jews which is Judaism in its purest form and closest to the teachings of the Torah will just tell you that they are Jews although even these are split into different groups but almost exclusively anti Zionist. Some of these groups don’t even consider Jews with Zionist views Jewish, they just consider them Zionist and a separate religion to Judaism.
So again quantify “most” “mainstream” or “majority” of Jews.
You seem to believe “mainstream” Jews are people like Sugar who just because they have a platform to tell you they’re mainstream must mean that they are.
Like I keep telling you. Educate yourself.
Astute
Well-Known Member
Would you like to educate yourself on what a Zionist is?
It is like any religion. It changes over the years. But it started out being someone who was barely a Jew.
And the reading up that you have done shows one thing. You only have the viewpoint of one or two people. Those with similar ideas still have different thoughts. That is why you need to look further than your nose.
Astute
Well-Known Member
Just for you Tony :smuggrin:
Defining Zionism: The belief that Israel belongs to the entire Jewish people
Defining Zionism: The belief that Israel belongs to the entire Jewish people
Sick Boy
Super Moderator
Various politicians met up with the IRA. What would you have preferred to have happened? Are you opposed to the Good Friday agreement? Innocent people lost their lives due to the actions of members of the Armed Forces, are those supporting the army just as bad? Or is state murder of innocent civilians okay?
None of which has anything to do with your bizarre statement about the monarchy.
Grendel
Well-Known Member
The last survey conducted on British Jews said 90%
Grendel
Well-Known Member
Various people met with the IRA yes and they also met with Uniomists and the peaceful arm of the catholic movement. Strangely Mr Corbyn , a very minor MP with zero influence only met the IRA
If you are so worried about the Good Friday agreement I suggest you ask Mr McDonnell why he opposed it and why Mr Corbyn opposed the initial Anglo Irish agreement which laid down foundations for peace.
The armed forces were only present due to the desire of certain members of society to use bombs and bullets rather than the ballot box. You know them - the only people McDonnell and Corbyn were ever interested in meeting.
Astute
Well-Known Member
I hope you are not defending Corbyn on showing sympathy for IRA members but not the slightest word for the innocent women and children killed?
Sick Boy
Super Moderator
I wasn't aware that they were meeting Unionsts as well?
Sick Boy
Super Moderator
I mentioned on here before that I lost family during the troubles (innocent btw).
Astute
Well-Known Member
Same here. And that is why I feel so strongly about it.
The soldiers knew why they were there. The IRA members knew why they were there.
Then you have the innocent that had no choice. And many just want to forget what happened to them. But worse for me was the children. And I have no time at all or respect for those who praise others but never mention the innocents especially the children. And Corbyn fits the bill. It is unforgivable.
Grendel
Well-Known Member
Who?
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
Again trying to get a history lesson from a newspaper. You can’t even read the article in full unless you subscribe so I don’t actually have a clue what it says. My guess is you’ve read the headline, assumed it backs you up and linked it without knowing the content or context.
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
Who conducted the survey? What percentage of British Jews took part?
Grendel
Well-Known Member
Yachad a liberal peaceful organisation. The problem is you are confusing Zionism. Many people perpetuate a myth (usually racists) that the desire is declining and rigs shows a lack of will to have a separate state.
Zionism is associated with religion so if you actually get asked are you a Zionist and are an atheist you say no. So only 59% said they were (still very high). However, 90% wanted a free and independent Israel and 86% were proud of its achievements - nothing has changed since a major poll in 2010.
So essentially 9 out of 10 want the state to remain free and independent include Orthodox Jews and atheists - David Baddiel makes this point in a link I showed earlier,
So where has your evidence come from to counter this belief? Can you provide a link to your research?
Grendel
Well-Known Member
Tony probably. He used to sing it to Nigel Farage but has changed his cult hero.
Earlsdon_Skyblue1
Well-Known Member
This is quite interesting. I feel that there are a lot of people that cannot see the bigger picture in all this.
For the last few years I have felt disillusioned with politics, I haven't found any of the leaders or parties coming forwards desirable to vote for at all.
I cannot stand Theresa May and she is just about one of the weakest Prime Ministers we've ever had. Her election campaign was worse than a Slade/Mowbray relegation team and she doesn't deserve to be a leader of a country. The thing is, if you step back out of it and put your blue or red flag down you will see that the reason she won is largely because most of the country rejected Corybn and the Labour party.
I don't agree in any media campaign against him but I actually wonder why this sometimes happens anyway. Yes it does exist, but it is also exaggerated somewhat too. May did get a bashing previously too, even if it might not be quite the same level. The reason I question why it is needed is because he's already done enough damage to himself. Most people see this and don't need to read dodgy news telling them stuff to think otherwise. The constant victimhood played by a lot of his supporters needs to stop. The electorate rejected him in favour of an absolute melt in the form of Theresa May and that says it all.
I would always consider to vote for Labour again if they put someone in who I felt could do a good job of leading the country, with a decent party behind them then why not? For the people saying Labour needs a shift to the left, you couldn't be more wrong if you want them to win an election. We need a party in the middle that can have a dose of common sense and also suit the wider populations needs. The Tories aren't even that right wing to be honest, it just looks that way from a Corbyn point of view.
The Labour party have a real chance of snatching back leadership from an inept Tory government at the next election, but they are unlikely to do that with Corbyn in charge.
For the last few years I have felt disillusioned with politics, I haven't found any of the leaders or parties coming forwards desirable to vote for at all.
I cannot stand Theresa May and she is just about one of the weakest Prime Ministers we've ever had. Her election campaign was worse than a Slade/Mowbray relegation team and she doesn't deserve to be a leader of a country. The thing is, if you step back out of it and put your blue or red flag down you will see that the reason she won is largely because most of the country rejected Corybn and the Labour party.
I don't agree in any media campaign against him but I actually wonder why this sometimes happens anyway. Yes it does exist, but it is also exaggerated somewhat too. May did get a bashing previously too, even if it might not be quite the same level. The reason I question why it is needed is because he's already done enough damage to himself. Most people see this and don't need to read dodgy news telling them stuff to think otherwise. The constant victimhood played by a lot of his supporters needs to stop. The electorate rejected him in favour of an absolute melt in the form of Theresa May and that says it all.
I would always consider to vote for Labour again if they put someone in who I felt could do a good job of leading the country, with a decent party behind them then why not? For the people saying Labour needs a shift to the left, you couldn't be more wrong if you want them to win an election. We need a party in the middle that can have a dose of common sense and also suit the wider populations needs. The Tories aren't even that right wing to be honest, it just looks that way from a Corbyn point of view.
The Labour party have a real chance of snatching back leadership from an inept Tory government at the next election, but they are unlikely to do that with Corbyn in charge.
Agree with some of that, but I think the present government is right wing ( which you don't think )and getting away with that because labour doesn't appeal to enough people, particulary those in the centre ( as you say ). Partly because of media attacks based on Corbyn's own mistakes.
Astute
Well-Known Member
As usual you say something is bollox without even reading it. And the usual person agrees with you :smuggrin: