The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (191 Viewers)

[martcov]

Are you up to date with what is going on?

Angela Merkel facing fresh migration crisis as Austria threatens to throw up border controls

Migrant holding centres: first Germany, now Austria

We still have 3 weeks to go.

 

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[martcov]

But they cancelled the Brexit talks to have talks about imprisoning migrants. Yet they can't have talks about an EU country prosecuting innocent people?

They don’t have talks about specific criminals. Italy isn’t prosecuting innocent people.., at least not deliberately. If something is happening it is not Italy, the country, it is criminals in the apparatus of state.

Brexit is not the overriding priority of the EU. They have a negotiator to look after that and the UK have failed to say what they want or present workable solutions to problems. Until the government comes up with something, Brexit will take second place.

 

[martcov]

I can’t think what the next straw clutching topic the dribbling lunatics will bring up next

Well actually I can

Usually it is Juncker, but the record seems to be stuck on non existent prisons at the moment. What topic are you bringing up next then? Hopefully not Tusk again.

 

[Astute]

They don’t have talks about specific criminals. Italy isn’t prosecuting innocent people.., at least not deliberately. If something is happening it is not Italy, the country, it is criminals in the apparatus of state.

Brexit is not the overriding priority of the EU. They have a negotiator to look after that and the UK have failed to say what they want or present workable solutions to problems. Until the government comes up with something, Brexit will take second place.

It is Italy. It has been proven that they are prosecuting people saying that they are who they are not. I supplied you with the link. But they need prosecutions to keep their own people happy.

 

[Astute]

We still have 3 weeks to go.

Still have 3 weeks to go for what?

Austria has an anti immigration party in charge. If Merkel and the EU continue to do what they are planning Austria will close their borders. If Merkel and the EU don't continue with their plans Merkel is finished.

And WE? Thought you counted yourself as British?

 

[Astute]

Usually it is Juncker, but the record seems to be stuck on non existent prisons at the moment. What topic are you bringing up next then? Hopefully not Tusk again.

So do you think they will happen?

 

[martcov]

Still have 3 weeks to go for what?

Austria has an anti immigration party in charge. If Merkel and the EU continue to do what they are planning Austria will close their borders. If Merkel and the EU don't continue with their plans Merkel is finished.

The EU are planning nothing. Your mate Juncker is checking the legality of Germany’s proposals. And the SPD are still undecided as whether to approve or disapprove. The whole thing is BS and a bit of show for the Bavarian elections. Merkel is playing this well. Seehofer is looking more like a dick all the time.

 

[Astute]

The EU are planning nothing. Your mate Juncker is checking the legality of Germany’s proposals. And the SPD are still undecided as whether to approve or disapprove. The whole thing is BS and a bit of show for the Bavarian elections. Merkel is playing this well. Seehofer is looking more like a dick all the time.

So they are planning nothing yet Juncker is checking out the legality of what they are not planning?

I showed you the links to the 3 day meeting. So they had a 3 day meeting where they didn't plan anything. And then finding out that it was most probably against human rights doesn't mean that they were and are planning to do so?

 

[martcov]

So do you think they will happen?

It is up to the SDP. The lefties. Snowflakes as they are known by some on here. If, then in the mildest form. A camp with a guaranteed maximum stay and voluntarily return basis if they don’t want to wait a week in the camp. It is all for show. Rhetoric without much substance.

 

[Astute]

It is up to the SDP. The lefties. Snowflakes as they are known by some on here. If, then in the mildest form. A camp with a guaranteed maximum stay and voluntarily return basis if they don’t want to wait a week in the camp. It is all for show. Rhetoric without much substance.

So where will the camps be? Because nobody wants them.

 

[martcov]

So they are planning nothing yet Juncker is checking out the legality of what they are not planning?

I showed you the links to the 3 day meeting. So they had a 3 day meeting where they didn't plan anything. And then finding out that it was most probably against human rights doesn't mean that they were and are planning to do so?

The EU are on about strengthening the exterior border and pumping money into schemes in Africa. The Africans don’t want camps anyway.This is Seehofer‘s idea and the SPD can stop it without asking Juncker.

 

[martcov]

So where will the camps be? Because nobody wants them.

Obviously someone wants them otherwise there wouldn’t be a proposal. Kurz wants to strengthen the exterior border so as not to threaten Schengen. He doesn’t want the migrants sent back to his country. Which is the Germans‘ plan to keep the centers away from being prisons. At the end there will be a fudge to save face. The SPD say something has to be done, but forced detention was rejected by them in 2015. Nobody wants to lose votes to AfD.

 

[martcov]

So where will the camps be? Because nobody wants them.

Germany. Bavaria because CSU is the strongest party in Bavaria and it is all about being tough on borders.

 

[martcov]

Still have 3 weeks to go for what?

Austria has an anti immigration party in charge. If Merkel and the EU continue to do what they are planning Austria will close their borders. If Merkel and the EU don't continue with their plans Merkel is finished.

And WE? Thought you counted yourself as British?

We... you and I in this case. You asked me for an answer. I can’t give you one. We will have to wait up to 3 weeks. Merkel made it 4 weeks to sort out the details. Almost a week is gone, so we will have to wait and see. I think there will be camps, but as weak as possible to avoid breaking EU rules and creating a scandal. Maybe with a time limit linked to migration figures. Germany cannot patrol it’s green border and if you want to get in, you just go through a different border - not one in Southern Bavaria. It is pure rhetoric to keep right wingers happy..

 

[Astute]

The EU are on about strengthening the exterior border and pumping money into schemes in Africa. The Africans don’t want camps anyway.This is Seehofer‘s idea and the SPD can stop it without asking Juncker.

Seehofers idea?

He has said it needs to change. He hasn't told the EU what it should do.

This is before the meeting last weekend. Juncker is worried about the EU falling apart.

Could the migration crisis finish the EU?

 

[Astute]

Obviously someone wants them otherwise there wouldn’t be a proposal. Kurz wants to strengthen the exterior border so as not to threaten Schengen. He doesn’t want the migrants sent back to his country. Which is the Germans‘ plan to keep the centers away from being prisons. At the end there will be a fudge to save face. The SPD say something has to be done, but forced detention was rejected by them in 2015. Nobody wants to lose votes to AfD.

That is quite obvious. But you say that the AfD isn't a problem. Some of us have always disagreed with you because of the speed where they came from nothing to 1 in 8 voters voting for them.

 

[Astute]

Germany. Bavaria because CSU is the strongest party in Bavaria and it is all about being tough on borders.

Subscribe to read | Financial Times

 

[Astute]

We... you and I in this case. You asked me for an answer. I can’t give you one. We will have to wait up to 3 weeks. Merkel made it 4 weeks to sort out the details. Almost a week is gone, so we will have to wait and see. I think there will be camps, but as weak as possible to avoid breaking EU rules and creating a scandal. Maybe with a time limit linked to migration figures. Germany cannot patrol it’s green border and if you want to get in, you just go through a different border - not one in Southern Bavaria. It is pure rhetoric to keep right wingers happy..

More than just to keep them happy. It.is all about keeping the voters happy.

 

[chiefdave]

Britain’s biggest carmaker, Jaguar Land Rover, warned that a hard Brexit would cost £1.2bn a year in trade tariffs and make it unprofitable to remain in the UK.

Ralf Speth, JLR chief executive, spoke out ahead of a key meeting on Friday as Theresa May tries to finalise her plans for the UK’s future relationship with the EU.

As well as the cost of trading under World Trade Organisation rules, Mr Speth said:

• JLR needs certainty before investing £80bn over five years, including into new and electric cars;
• The company has already spent £10m on Brexit contingency plans;
• JLR is struggling to attract international talent to UK.

“I don’t want to threaten anybody, but we have to make transparent the implications of the move. We want to stay in the UK. Jaguar Land Rover’s heart and soul is in the UK,” said Mr Speth.

 

[martcov]

That is quite obvious. But you say that the AfD isn't a problem. Some of us have always disagreed with you because of the speed where they came from nothing to 1 in 8 voters voting for them.

I said the AfD isn’t a problem where I live. I don’t live in the East and I don’t live near the southern border. I live near the Danish border.

No one will work with AfD. 87,5 % voted for other parties.

Bavaria is very conservative apart from Munich.

The CSU under Franz Josef Strauß said there should never be anyone to the right of the CSU. For them AfD is competition to the right of them. Seehofer and Söder are right wing and are trying to scupper AfD by taking a populist course. Which is problematic for the coalition.

Bavaria is Catholic and the C in CSU stands for Christian. There are people in the CSU who welcomed refugees as a Christian duty.

So the whole thing is not an easy situation. It is not comparable to say, Brexit, which is a self inflicted problem.

Please stop making things up about what I supposedly said.

 

[martcov]

Britain’s biggest carmaker, Jaguar Land Rover, warned that a hard Brexit would cost £1.2bn a year in trade tariffs and make it unprofitable to remain in the UK.

Ralf Speth, JLR chief executive, spoke out ahead of a key meeting on Friday as Theresa May tries to finalise her plans for the UK’s future relationship with the EU.

As well as the cost of trading under World Trade Organisation rules, Mr Speth said:

• JLR needs certainty before investing £80bn over five years, including into new and electric cars;
• The company has already spent £10m on Brexit contingency plans;
• JLR is struggling to attract international talent to UK.

“I don’t want to threaten anybody, but we have to make transparent the implications of the move. We want to stay in the UK. Jaguar Land Rover’s heart and soul is in the UK,” said Mr Speth.

Cue the usual project fear brigade. Juncker, Tusk, imprisoning innocent people, prison for refugees, nothing to do with Brexit, crying wolf again etc etc etc.

Ignore disruption to the supply chain, ignore WTO tairiffs, ignore the EU customers maybe not purchasing British cars....

Put all your eggs into the one basket of, as people like Belize Ashcroft insist, Germany will come running to us with the begging bowl at the last minute.

Maybe they will, but I think countries like Germany will take the hit on the loss of the GB market, or rather some of it, and are already working on alternatives. No way should the U.K. believe that the anti EU sentiment is near to that of the U.K.. Even Kurz with his extreme right wing coalition partner has said the EU must remain united in it’s Brexit stance. The EU‘s greatest problem is migration. Not Brexit. Britain‘s net contribution will be replaced easily. Germany‘s share of that will be less than 3 bn. Germany’s Budget this year is 343 bn. That is a 0% balanced budget. No new borrowing. In fact they are reducing the national debt with that.

They would prefer for us to pay our contribution, which we will be doing til 2021 anyway, and probably longer if the transition period which we have asked for goes ahead, but no one is talking about the EU collapsing because of Brexit.

Whatever happens the uncertainty and wobbly government with cabinet infighting is costing us investment and causing people to look for other solutions to keep their businesses profitable.

It‘s BINO and the blame game from now on. But we have French made blue passports, probably a few new jobs in the fishing industry, more pigs ears for China, more beef sales to China if negotiations go well over the next 3 years, less work regulations „imposed“ upon us ( e.g. no weekly working hours restrictions, no guaranteed paid holidays ) and we keep our crown dependency tax havens for our millions.

 

[Astute]

I said the AfD isn’t a problem where I live. I don’t live in the East and I don’t live near the southern border. I live near the Danish border.

No one will work with AfD. 87,5 % voted for other parties.

Bavaria is very conservative apart from Munich.

The CSU under Franz Josef Strauß said there should never be anyone to the right of the CSU. For them AfD is competition to the right of them. Seehofer and Söder are right wing and are trying to scupper AfD by taking a populist course. Which is problematic for the coalition.

You used to say that AfD isn't a problem in Germany. Then you changed it to not a problem where you live when constantly questioned on the matter.

Yes, having populists governing Germany is a massive problem. Merkel either has to keep them happy or she is gone. She knows it. So does the EU.

So what other countries in the EU has populists in charge or are growing at a fast pace?

The rise of European populism and the collapse of the center-left

Even Juncker admits that the EU has massive problems.

 

[Astute]

Britain’s biggest carmaker, Jaguar Land Rover, warned that a hard Brexit would cost £1.2bn a year in trade tariffs and make it unprofitable to remain in the UK.

Ralf Speth, JLR chief executive, spoke out ahead of a key meeting on Friday as Theresa May tries to finalise her plans for the UK’s future relationship with the EU.

As well as the cost of trading under World Trade Organisation rules, Mr Speth said:

• JLR needs certainty before investing £80bn over five years, including into new and electric cars;
• The company has already spent £10m on Brexit contingency plans;
• JLR is struggling to attract international talent to UK.

“I don’t want to threaten anybody, but we have to make transparent the implications of the move. We want to stay in the UK. Jaguar Land Rover’s heart and soul is in the UK,” said Mr Speth.

Old news.

They have been moving out of the UK since 2012. They have been blaming Brexit for the last couple of years. They blamed their sales dropping alarmingly on Brexit. But the truth was they never moved with EU rules. 90% of their engines were still diesel. People stopped buying diesel because of not knowing where EU rules were going.

They have just invested 9b in China in a new plant. The F-pace is going to be built in a new plant later this year in a new plant in Austria. They have invested 1b in a new plant which also opens soon in Slovakia that will build the E-pace. These were planned well before any Brexit vote was even heard of.

So yes. Old school engines are in the UK. The new improved engines and technology is everywhere else. All planned before Brexit but an easy target to blame.

 

[Astute]

Cue the usual project fear brigade. Juncker, Tusk, imprisoning innocent people, prison for refugees, nothing to do with Brexit, crying wolf again etc etc etc.

Ignore disruption to the supply chain, ignore WTO tairiffs, ignore the EU customers maybe not purchasing British cars....

Put all your eggs into the one basket of, as people like Belize Ashcroft insist, Germany will come running to us with the begging bowl at the last minute.

Maybe they will, but I think countries like Germany will take the hit on the loss of the GB market, or rather some of it, and are already working on alternatives. No way should the U.K. believe that the anti EU sentiment is near to that of the U.K.. Even Kurz with his extreme right wing coalition partner has said the EU must remain united in it’s Brexit stance. The EU‘s greatest problem is migration. Not Brexit. Britain‘s net contribution will be replaced easily. Germany‘s share of that will be less than 3 bn. Germany’s Budget this year is 343 bn. That is a 0% balanced budget. No new borrowing. In fact they are reducing the national debt with that.

They would prefer for us to pay our contribution, which we will be doing til 2021 anyway, and probably longer if the transition period which we have asked for goes ahead, but no one is talking about the EU collapsing because of Brexit.

Whatever happens the uncertainty and wobbly government with cabinet infighting is costing us investment and causing people to look for other solutions to keep their businesses profitable.

It‘s BINO and the blame game from now on. But we have French made blue passports, probably a few new jobs in the fishing industry, more pigs ears for China, more beef sales to China if negotiations go well over the next 3 years, less work regulations „imposed“ upon us ( e.g. no weekly working hours restrictions, no guaranteed paid holidays ) and we keep our crown dependency tax havens for our millions.

Yes Mart.

So Germany happy to lose an untold amount of jobs and happy to pay an extra 3b a year. So where is the rest of it going to come from?

German carmakers are going to make up for lost sales in the UK? What market are they going to move into that they are not in already?

Yes the EU has more important things to sort out. I agree. Even Juncker admits that the EU is falling apart. Borders are closing. The right is taking over. It isn't good news.

Even you must be able to admit that the EU is very fragile ATM. And I would prefer to be out of it when it goes wrong. And it certainly looks to be going that way.

 

[clint van damme]

Old news.

They have been moving out of the UK since 2012. They have been blaming Brexit for the last couple of years. They blamed their sales dropping alarmingly on Brexit. But the truth was they never moved with EU rules. 90% of their engines were still diesel. People stopped buying diesel because of not knowing where EU rules were going.

They have just invested 9b in China in a new plant. The F-pace is going to be built in a new plant later this year in a new plant in Austria. They have invested 1b in a new plant which also opens soon in Slovakia that will build the E-pace. These were planned well before any Brexit vote was even heard of.

So yes. Old school engines are in the UK. The new improved engines and technology is everywhere else. All planned before Brexit but an easy target to blame.

Most of what you say is true but I don't think he's talking about the new plants you've mentioned which were planned/up and running prior to the referendum.
I think he's talking about future investment. I don't think anything will halt what's going on at Whitely but I think it could affect Castle Brom, Solihull and Halewood.

The type of customs deal we get could have a massive affect on how JIT plants run, it would be amiss of him not to put pressure on for a customs deal that suite his company.

 

[Captain Dart]

All these companies are moaning to try and get preferential deals.
It doesn't mean they will actually 'leave' the UK, there is too much business & investment here.
If tariff mess up Jaguar's profitability then they'll destroy BMW, Fiat, Peugot & Mercedes.
So there will be a deal on car imports/exports, I have no doubt about it.

 

[martcov]

Yes Mart.

So Germany happy to lose an untold amount of jobs and happy to pay an extra 3b a year. So where is the rest of it going to come from?

German carmakers are going to make up for lost sales in the UK? What market are they going to move into that they are not in already?

Yes the EU has more important things to sort out. I agree. Even Juncker admits that the EU is falling apart. Borders are closing. The right is taking over. It isn't good news.

Even you must be able to admit that the EU is very fragile ATM. And I would prefer to be out of it when it goes wrong. And it certainly looks to be going that way.

Which borders have closed?

 

[martcov]

All these companies are moaning to try and get preferential deals.
It doesn't mean they will actually 'leave' the UK, there is too much business & investment here.
If tariff mess up Jaguar's profitability then they'll destroy BMW, Fiat, Peugot & Mercedes.
So there will be a deal on car imports/exports, I have no doubt about it.

It’s not just the sales... it’s the supply chain... Sales can be more easily worked out. Certificates of origin may be more complicated.

Just because the little boy kept calling wolf, didn’t mean the wolf didn’t eventually turn up...

 

[skybluetony176]

No-deal Brexit 'could ground aircraft'

 

[martcov]

Yes Mart.

So Germany happy to lose an untold amount of jobs and happy to pay an extra 3b a year. So where is the rest of it going to come from?

German carmakers are going to make up for lost sales in the UK? What market are they going to move into that they are not in already?

Yes the EU has more important things to sort out. I agree. Even Juncker admits that the EU is falling apart. Borders are closing. The right is taking over. It isn't good news.

Even you must be able to admit that the EU is very fragile ATM. And I would prefer to be out of it when it goes wrong. And it certainly looks to be going that way.

You prefer to be in Brexit Britain? Where the government cannot agree on Brexit, supply chains could be slowed down resulting in a decline in manufacturing, production could go to Europe, a lack of labour in the NHS and farming could result in problems, GDP set to decline, bureaucracy to increase, civil servants to be employed.... and do on. I’ll stick it out here as part of the world‘s largest trading bloc with my guaranteed rights. Yes, it is fragile here as well, but aside from the cheaper pound I cannot see any reason for moving back to the U.K.. I’ll just enjoy the benefits of cheap holidays.

 

[martcov]

No-deal Brexit 'could ground aircraft'

More scare tactics ;-) It will be alright in the end... of course...

 

[Grendel]

It’s not just the sales... it’s the supply chain... Sales can be more easily worked out. Certificates of origin may be more complicated.

Just because the little boy kept calling wolf, didn’t mean the wolf didn’t eventually turn up...

What on Earth are you on about now.

The truth is you WANT the uk to fail as even relative stability would mean others looking over your beloved EU curtain

It’s funny how you constantly abuse Farage. Even he has more loyalty and interest in this country than you.

 

[SkyblueBazza]

You mentioned both of those last week but didn't reply to my question of how they related to leaving the EU?

One puts the UK 3 years behind as a result of Brexit and the other benefits a country on the opposite side of the world!

3yrs behind what? The EU? As far as I know Britain was not one of the 6 countries to beneift initially anyhow. Ireland was...but they still aren't benefitting yet, despite thinking they would be by the end of 2016. Unless I have missed something which is always possible ..not that that would really matter. I was answering the question 'what deals'?
The BAE deal does benefit Britain's economy...it is a British company.

And another story for the record...look beyond beef £9billion of deal with China alone!!! (Apparently)
China to accept UK beef 20 years after ban as May secures £9bn trade deal BEFORE Brexit

So things might be slower on the Brexit deal...because being wise - we are working on new deals to bear fruit for the future.

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[SkyblueBazza]

Detained maximum a week and free to return to Austria in a detention centre if they want, but not allowed to enter Germany without clearance. Only migrants that have been registered in another country. Only at 3 crossing points.

Seeing as the door is open to Austria and they are not in a prison, you can hardly say they are being imprisoned.

Someone didnt read the link I posted about the Austrians are laying in wait for Germany's next steps...they are looking to secure their border. Or do you think they should just do what Germany wants?

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[SkyblueBazza]

We still have 3 weeks to go.

Shame you don't allow the UK similar patience tlregarding Brexit arrangements. After-all, you wouldn't wish to discriminate now would you? You want what is best for the UK don't you?

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