Second referendum : am I missing something ? (20 Viewers)

[Ccfcsj]

Good. Fire away.

Where's the middle finger emote when I want it

 

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[martcov]

Where's the middle finger emote when I want it

So, no cohesive arguments then.

 

[Ccfcsj]

So, no cohesive arguments then.

fxxk off

 

[martcov]

fxxk off

As I said..

 

[Ccfcsj]

:yawn:

 

[fernandopartridge]

On a much smaller scale, I did it with the Trump election, I had a big chunk of pension based in North American. I'd had a decent year and wanted to crystalize that and I was unsure if he'd win. When he did, I thought I'd dodged a bullet moving them out but in hindsight they continued to rise.

Because there will initially be a small downturn. I think we're all expecting that, my guess is they'll move in the short term and then by back in when they feel it's low and make even more on the way back up. Seems a sensible approach whether you're in Government or not. Wouldn't you?​

Should have crystalised it and bet it on him winning. I got a very good price on the night as I did with Brexit

 

[fernandopartridge]

Based on what?

Fuck all

 

[SkyblueBazza]

see I don't agree. The more I read about operating under the WTO the more it sounds like a bit of a nightmare. Hence why many countries are trying to form trading blocks of their own.
Now I am far from an expert and it all seems very complicated which is why I'm prepared to listen to anyone who can explain, or link to someone explaining, why ripping up all our current agreements and starting from scratch in the WTO is a good idea.

Which is why we take a relatively short term hit. The longer term I believe we will prosper

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[SkyblueBazza]

Based on what?

Opinion.

That is pretty much all any of us have to go on.

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[SkyblueBazza]

There shouldn't be a second referendum! The British public voted and the vote should stand. Having a second referendum would be like saying we didn't like the result, so let's just keep on having new votes until we get the result we want.

Which is exactly what some amongst want. They expect the right to have another vote - but would then probably want to deny the right the following week when the EU might have done something distasteful to the UK public. Or maybe they want a vote every week on thw same subject?

That'd fit with what some seem to spout about the EU...make lots of noise but not actually get anything much done for the most part

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[SkyblueBazza]

We signed two political treaties with no say from the British public at all

A pro European government could make us join the euro and we couldn’t do a damn thing to stop it. A chilling prospect.

Or even better a pro-German EU Govt? Lol

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[SkyblueBazza]

Every government (until very recently) has got in with a manifesto and strengthening ties with Europe and the EU not severing them.

That is because pro-EU noise was all around. The politicians were hoodwinked somewhat into believing the British public wanted to have closer ties. At course in amongst 20 or more other key factors influencing which party to vote for 'closer ties with the EU' was simoly neutralising anti EU sentiment. Only when the vote on the specific issue of being in the EU did we find that most that care don't want to be in it anymore

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[SkyblueBazza]

Pending the unfolding disaster.

Maybe MartCov has room in his German bunker for you? Please - feel free to go anytime you want.

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[SkyblueBazza]

...and nothing has chaneed wit regards to the key parties and the only true anti EU party never got close to getting power.

That's a fair point. Most of the British public are probably not anti-EU. They just don't want to be a part of it!

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[Sick Boy]

Maybe MartCov has room in his German bunker for you? Please - feel free to go anytime you want.

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Believe it or not but they have the internet in Germany too.

 

[Sick Boy]

Should have crystalised it and bet it on him winning. I got a very good price on the night as I did with Brexit

I was going to back both but didn't bother in the end, neither came as a massive surprise.

 

[clint van damme]

Which is why we take a relatively short term hit. The longer term I believe we will prosper

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Why does that mean we'll take a short term hit. I would say far from it. Can you explain?

 

[martcov]

That is because pro-EU noise was all around. The politicians were hoodwinked somewhat into believing the British public wanted to have closer ties. At course in amongst 20 or more other key factors influencing which party to vote for 'closer ties with the EU' was simoly neutralising anti EU sentiment. Only when the vote on the specific issue of being in the EU did we find that most that care don't want to be in it anymore

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More bollocks. The only reason Brexit won is the sheer amount of lies and distortions. ( yes, there was project fear from the other side, but that could be counted as contra productive ). Much was made of Turkey joining the EU and 75 million Muslims having the right to come to the UK. Syrian refugees getting German citizenship and flooding into the UK as EU citizens. Pictures of refugees pouring into the Balkans. All also planted in people’s Twitter and FB feeds. Nothing happened, but leave put the frighteners on a lot of people. Your own vocabulary contains „EU bullying tactics“, „undemocratic“, a host of anti German crap, and so on. The usual Farage style rhetoric. Just shows how effective propaganda is.

 

[martcov]

That's a fair point. Most of the British public are probably not anti-EU. They just don't want to be a part of it!

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A bit more than half who are interested want to stay in. Why do you think they do, when you think we will only take a short term hit?

 

[martcov]

Or even better a pro-German EU Govt? Lol

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Can’t you go one day without posting an anti German comment? Instead of posting crap, why don’t you disclose any evidence you have that we will be better off in 30 years as you claim? What do you have to say to the people taking the „short term hit“, so that things will be better in 30 years? Convince them that you know what you are talking about.

 

[martcov]

Believe it or not but they have the internet in Germany too.

Yes, indeed we do. Just read this, but it is written by experts so is probably crap.

For the likes of Bazza and Astute:

Immigration myths that fuelled Brexit blown apart by major government commissioned report

 

[martcov]

Same to you. Other than people speculating, show me a factual (Not scaremongering) that suggests we'll implode within hours of a no deal!

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Port of Dover predicts collapse. The hauliers predict chaos. The government‘s own papers predict massive tailbacks. Contraflows on then motorways are planned. The border control say they they don’t have enough staff. There are not enough vets for controlling food and animal transport. And so on. Basically anyone who’s livelihood depends on trade with the EU says there will be chaos.

You being cleverer than them, know that that is all scaremongering.

Still, Grendel says there will be no impact and Bazza is convinced that the hit will only be for a few years, but in 30 years everything will be great. Rees Mogg says the UK will be booming in 50 years. What’s a 20 years difference? Who cares. Main thing is it will great in the future.

Just people like me will either be over 90 or not here in 30 years. And what if they are wrong?

 

[SkyblueBazza]

Believe it or not but they have the internet in Germany too.

Hopefully once Tony has settled in, they will invite you over too.

Wtf has the internet got to do with it?

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[SkyblueBazza]

Why does that mean we'll take a short term hit. I would say far from it. Can you explain?

The answer is in your own post clint

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[clint van damme]

The answer is in your own post clint

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As I see it, if we don't sort a deal we will go from free trade with the EU to operating under WTO rules.
We then have a costly and time consuming period where we negotiate to try and get us back to the position we're in now with our current biggest trading partner.
That's before you start on negotiating with the rest of the world. We've already submitted one WTO schedule which was reject by the US, Brazil and a couple of others. I don't see this as being a short term hit.

As I keep saying, I'm far from an expert, but if I'm wrong I just want some to tell me why with a bit of detail.

 

[martcov]

As I see it, if we don't sort a deal we will go from free trade with the EU to operating under WTO rules.
We then have a costly and time consuming period where we negotiate to try and get us back to the position we're in now with our current biggest trading partner.
That's before you start on negotiating with the rest of the world. We've already submitted one WTO schedule which was reject by the US, Brazil and a couple of others. I don't see this as being a short term hit.

As I keep saying, I'm far from an expert, but if I'm wrong I just want some to tell me why with a bit of detail.

You won’t get anyone from the leave side to give a genuine appraisal. All appraisals, except from a climate denying creationist, are negative or just plucked from thin air. Many of the faith and hope brigade pushing leave are, at the same time, taking prudent steps to avoid possible negative aspects of Brexit. The UK‘s richest man has done a runner to Monaco after praising Brexit. Lawson has got his residence permit to live the rest of his life in luxury in a Château Type residence in France, Rees Mogg’s funds have opened an Irish EU investment fund, Farage‘s kids have dual nationality.. even our Grendel is taking prudent steps to avoid negative impacts on his portfolio. Good for them, but what about the, generally, poorer people who felt left behind by globalisation and voted against membership of the largest trading bloc in the world? The whole thing is such an obvious con, that people believe in it. They actually enjoy people like me looking on in despair whilst they follow their pied pipers into a decline in GDP and likely loss of UK jobs. They enjoy Farage insulting MEPs and making false claims about them. It doesn’t matter that he is lying, they love the show. Good ol‘ Nige! The public school boy who would have nothing to do with them socially.

 

[Captain Dart]

The Remainers are no doubt preparing a campaign for 'best out of 3'. Project fear mk II is really ramping up, radio 5 in the last 2 days has been like a remain party political broadcast, massively biased, I'm quite disgusted at the BBC.

What this 2nd referendum is all about is reversing the largest democratic vote ever in this country, it shows how politicians treat the electorate with disdain and how out of touch they are,

There will be ample opportunity to reverse the EU decision at upcoming General Elections if the electorate wants to, unlike te EU where you have no say in policy.

and some politicians want 16 yr olds to vote while simultaneously branding the electorate as unable to make a good decision, cognitive dissonance ++

 

[SkyblueBazza]

As I see it, if we don't sort a deal we will go from free trade with the EU to operating under WTO rules.
We then have a costly and time consuming period where we negotiate to try and get us back to the position we're in now with our current biggest trading partner.
That's before you start on negotiating with the rest of the world. We've already submitted one WTO schedule which was reject by the US, Brazil and a couple of others. I don't see this as being a short term hit.

As I keep saying, I'm far from an expert, but if I'm wrong I just want some to tell me why with a bit of detail.

I am no expert either Clint. What I do think is that where there is a will there is a way.
A bit like if your domestic relationship breaks down. You move out of the family home. You may not be happy with your new alternative accommodation...but it will do for the short term while you either work to change it so you are happy in it, or look around for something better.

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[clint van damme]

I am no expert either Clint. What I do think is that where there is a will there is a way.
A bit like if your domestic relationship breaks down. You move out of the family home. You may not be happy with your new alternative accommodation...but it will do for the short term while you either work to change it so you are happy in it, or look around for something better.

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But if you move into 160 odd new relationships with partners who all have different demands I think it's fair to say your life will become a car crash!!

 

[SkyblueBazza]

But if you move into 160 odd new relationships with partners who all have different demands I think it's fair to say your life will become a car crash!!

Make hay with each one while the sun shines

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[clint van damme]

Make hay with each one while the sun shines

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problem is, you go to make hay with one, but if just one of the others object you can't.

 

[martcov]

I am no expert either Clint. What I do think is that where there is a will there is a way.
A bit like if your domestic relationship breaks down. You move out of the family home. You may not be happy with your new alternative accommodation...but it will do for the short term while you either work to change it so you are happy in it, or look around for something better.

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Our relationship with the EU didn't break down though. UKIP's growth forced Cameron to try and renegotiate our immigration policy. Farage presented the UK and Eu as a broken relationship. It wasn't. So in other words you're not leaving a broken relationship.

 

[martcov]

The Remainers are no doubt preparing a campaign for 'best out of 3'. Project fear mk II is really ramping up, radio 5 in the last 2 days has been like a remain party political broadcast, massively biased, I'm quite disgusted at the BBC.

What this 2nd referendum is all about is reversing the largest democratic vote ever in this country, it shows how politicians treat the electorate with disdain and how out of touch they are,

There will be ample opportunity to reverse the EU decision at upcoming General Elections if the electorate wants to, unlike te EU where you have no say in policy.

and some politicians want 16 yr olds to vote while simultaneously branding the electorate as unable to make a good decision, cognitive dissonance ++

How do you reverse us leaving after it has happened? That's it. We will be out for the foreseeable future with little chance of getting back in. People like Farage ruined the UK's image in Europe.

 

[Grappa]

I mentioned some earlier, (James O'Brien, 3 men i n the pub), I even said I they acknowledge they are committed remainers and asked for a link that presents a contrary opinion. Nothing so far.

If you want some less forthrightly pro-remain follows, @EmporersNewC @davidallengreen @OliverBullough @JolyonMaugham @faisalislam are all pretty good.

None of them will offer substantiated contrary opinions to those you've already discovered though, sadly. They're just a bit less preachy than @mrjamesob & @JasonJHunter.

 

[fernandopartridge]

If you want some less forthrightly pro-remain follows, @EmporersNewC @davidallengreen @OliverBullough @JolyonMaugham @faisalislam are all pretty good.

None of them will offer substantiated contrary opinions to those you've already discovered though, sadly. They're just a bit less preachy than @mrjamesob & @JasonJHunter.

I used to follow Jolyon Maugham but he became unbearable about 12 months ago.