The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (386 Viewers)

[Astute]

What problems would disappear? It wouldn't solve the birder issue.

Free trade agreement would mean less checking of goods moving across the Irish border. If our tariffs were kept the same from outside the EU that could be taxed on arrival.

In fact we could go on all day. But not knowing any trade agreements leaves us guessing. Just like you are now.

 

---

[martcov]

Congratulations. You finally understand or finally admit what is going on.

So now you finally admit something how about explaining that we need to know about what sort of trade deal there will be before finalising what will happen with the Irish border.

Or would you like to explain how we can finalise what is happening with the Irish border without knowing anything about a trade deal. You have admitted that it could make it worse. Yes we just don't know.

But of course you will twist it away from what you have just admitted. You always do.

How can you agree a regulatory trade border without knowing how you will regulate it? The whole point of Brexit, for some, is to escape EU regulations. Which means you have to have a border to EU regulatory controls.

 

[martcov]

Free trade agreement would mean less checking of goods moving across the Irish border. If our tariffs were kept the same from outside the EU that could be taxed on arrival.

In fact we could go on all day. But not knowing any trade agreements leaves us guessing. Just like you are now.

What about regulatory controls? What if ROI and the EU won’t accept chlorinated chicken but the UK does? Who will control whether the chicken in a Northern Ireland truck is chlorinated or not?

 

[Astute]

The Irish border is more than trade though. Many people in the North work in the South and vice versa so it’s also about freedom of movement. The island of Ireland also shares an electricity grid so it’s about services, the people that work in the south get paid in another currency to their accounts in Northern banks so again it’s about service, the Garda and PSNI have a very close cross border policing arrangement so it’s about security and criminality, and we haven’t even factored in the GFPA.

And the same old question that you have been ignoring for ages.

How can we finalise anything with the border when we don't know any details? All we can do is guess.

So let's say we come to an agreement on the Irish border. Suddenly a trade deal means the agreement is worthless as it doesn't coincide with the trade deal. We would then have to start again.

Wouldn't put it past those running the EU to have it as a plan to keep us in for years longer.

 

[Sick Boy]

What about regulatory controls? What if ROI and the EU won’t accept chlorinated chicken but the UK does? Who will control whether the chicken in a Northern Ireland truck is chlorinated or not?

I've already tried to get this point across.

 

[skybluetony176]

Congratulations. You finally understand or finally admit what is going on.

So now you finally admit something how about explaining that we need to know about what sort of trade deal there will be before finalising what will happen with the Irish border.

Or would you like to explain how we can finalise what is happening with the Irish border without knowing anything about a trade deal. You have admitted that it could make it worse. Yes we just don't know.

But of course you will twist it away from what you have just admitted. You always do.

You’re still spectacularly missing it. In fact you’re further away now than you were at the beginning.

Try putting the horse before the cart. If the Union means anything to you, if the Northern Irish economy means anything to you, if the people of Northern Ireland mean anything to you, if the GFPA means anything to you you will sort out the border issues first and let that dictate what the trade deal will look like. If you want to dismiss the union, the Northern Irish economy, the people of Northern Ireland and the GFPA then by all means put trade first.

 

[skybluetony176]

And the same old question that you have been ignoring for ages.

How can we finalise anything with the border when we don't know any details? All we can do is guess.

So let's say we come to an agreement on the Irish border. Suddenly a trade deal means the agreement is worthless as it doesn't coincide with the trade deal. We would then have to start again.

Wouldn't put it past those running the EU to have it as a plan to keep us in for years longer.

The DUP is a bigger threat to sorting the Irish border than any other party involved in brexit.

 

[martcov]

I've already tried to get this point across.

I am blocked by him. You and Tony will be next, followed by Grappa and Clint. Then he can say he won the argument and get likes from Captain Breitbart and SkyblueTozza.

 

[Grappa]

I'm just thankful that some blokes on a football forum know more about the impact of no-deal brexit on Just In Time manufacturing than the chairman of Toyota and JAMA.
Otherwise, this might have been a bit worrisome:

 

[Astute]

You’re still spectacularly missing it. In fact you’re further away now than you were at the beginning.

Try putting the horse before the cart. If the Union means anything to you, if the Northern Irish economy means anything to you, if the people of Northern Ireland mean anything to you, if the GFPA means anything to you you will sort out the border issues first and let that dictate what the trade deal will look like. If you want to dismiss the union, the Northern Irish economy, the people of Northern Ireland and the GFPA then by all means put trade first.

So you admit that any trade deal could make the situation with the Irish border worse yet you know that all the problems with the Irish border can be solved without knowing a single thing about a trade deal would look like.

Then you make out that I am missing the point. Yes OK.

 

[Astute]

The DUP is a bigger threat to sorting the Irish border than any other party involved in brexit.

And why is that?

You like to make out that you know what is going on. But all you want to do is have a dig at those who have anything to do with us leaving other than those who run the EU. And you like to have a go at those who voted leave.

Not bad for someone who voted UKIP.

 

[skybluetony176]

So you admit that any trade deal could make the situation with the Irish border worse yet you know that all the problems with the Irish border can be solved without knowing a single thing about a trade deal would look like.

Then you make out that I am missing the point. Yes OK.

You’ve just proved again that you’ve missed the point. I don’t need to make anything out, I just have to let you keep talking.

 

[Astute]

You’ve just proved again that you’ve missed the point. I don’t need to make anything out, I just have to let you keep talking.

But you have no point to prove. You have already proved yourself wrong. And all you can say is that I have missed the point.

 

[skybluetony176]

And why is that?

You like to make out that you know what is going on. But all you want to do is have a dig at those who have anything to do with us leaving other than those who run the EU. And you like to have a go at those who voted leave.

Not bad for someone who voted UKIP.

The old UKIP line again. You’ve lost the argument.

Just to remind you brexit stands for Britain leaving the EU not the EU excluding Britain. By the very definition that puts the onus on us to sort it out. We voted for this, we chose this problem yet you won’t us to shirk the responsibility of what we’ve done and put the onus on others. So much for taking back control.

 

[Astute]

The old UKIP line again. You’ve lost the argument.

Just to remind you brexit stands for Britain leaving the EU not the EU excluding Britain. By the very definition that puts the onus on us to sort it out. We voted for this, we chose this problem yet you won’t us to shirk the responsibility of what we’ve done and put the onus on others. So much for taking back control.

Lost what argument?

So what has any of that got to do with the Irish border?

You are trying to say that knowing details of any sort of trade deal wouldn't make it easier to sort out what is the best thing to do with the Irish border. You say it might make it harder. You are nothing but deluded.

Just to remind you UKIP were about one thing. Leaving the EU. You voted UKIP. Now you are crying your eyes out as what you voted for has happened. Yet you have the balls to have a go at me. The one of us two that has never voted UKIP or to leave the EU.

Hope this helps. But you will make out that it doesn't.

Q&A: The Irish border Brexit backstop

 

[martcov]

And why is that?

You like to make out that you know what is going on. But all you want to do is have a dig at those who have anything to do with us leaving other than those who run the EU. And you like to have a go at those who voted leave.

Not bad for someone who voted UKIP.

He does know what is going on. You obviously don’t. The EU has nothing to do with us leaving. We voted to leave. The EU offered a solution to the Irish border whereby NI stays in the largest free trading bloc in the world. Special status. The DUP turned it down. The 10 DUP MPs keep the Tories in power. We have a problem. Most of Britain knows this. You don’t and you don’t want to. You blocked me and you say Tony is having a dig at you for pointing this out. You are either thick or on a wind up.

 

[martcov]

Lost what argument?

So what has any of that got to do with the Irish border?

You are trying to say that knowing details of any sort of trade deal wouldn't make it easier to sort out what is the best thing to do with the Irish border. You say it might make it harder. You are nothing but deluded.

Just to remind you UKIP were about one thing. Leaving the EU. You voted UKIP. Now you are crying your eyes out as what you voted for has happened. Yet you have the balls to have a go at me. The one of us two that has never voted UKIP or to leave the EU.

Hope this helps. But you will make out that it doesn't.

Q&A: The Irish border Brexit backstop

Exactly what Tony and others tried to explain to you, but think the BBC is bias. Probably they are having a dig at people like you.

An exert:

The DUP, a Northern Ireland unionist party, have repeatedly said they would not accept any additional Northern Ireland-only checks no matter where or how they take place.

The party's leader Arlene Foster said: "The United Kingdom single market must be protected with no new borders between Northern Ireland and Great Britain being created. From day one this has been the DUP's only red line."

Now did you read your link? Have you understood it?

 

[SkyblueBazza]

I've already tried to get this point across.

It is a complete non-issue.

As I have pointed out before - people happily go visiting the US & eat copious amounts of said foul (see what I did there?) produce.

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk

 

[clint van damme]

And the same old question that you have been ignoring for ages.

How can we finalise anything with the border when we don't know any details? All we can do is guess.

So let's say we come to an agreement on the Irish border. Suddenly a trade deal means the agreement is worthless as it doesn't coincide with the trade deal. We would then have to start again.

Wouldn't put it past those running the EU to have it as a plan to keep us in for years longer.

For fucks sake. The UK, the EU and Ireland have agreed that the border question needs sorting before trade talks start.

 

[martcov]

It is a complete non-issue.

As I have pointed out before - people happily go visiting the US & eat copious amounts of said foul (see what I did there?) produce.

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk

What's that got to do with 2 regulatory customs areas? Missed the point as usual.

 

[Grendel]

I've already tried to get this point across.

Whose going to enforce the hard border? We have said we won’t.

 

[skybluetony176]

Whose going to enforce the hard border? We have said we won’t.

Not sure where you’re getting that from. The PSNI already has a plan for recruiting hundreds of officers, opening police stations etc. along the border in the event of a hard border. We’ll certainly be enforcing it. The black market was big business back in the 70’s and the police will have to deal with that again if there’s no free trade and movement over the border.

 

[martcov]

A long but very well presented explanation of Brexit and the English problem with Ireland. It explains in a way that even Astute and Bazza could understand. They of course cannot see this link as I am blocked. It takes over an hour, but if you are interested in an explanation...

 

[Grendel]

Not sure where you’re getting that from. The PSNI already has a plan for recruiting hundreds of officers, opening police stations etc. along the border in the event of a hard border. We’ll certainly be enforcing it. The black market was big business back in the 70’s and the police will have to deal with that again if there’s no free trade and movement over the border.

It’s the governments stance. It’s a nonsense argument to suggest Colditz style borders would exist - as they didn’t across Europe prior 1992

 

[Grendel]

A long but very well presented explanation of Brexit and the English problem with Ireland. It explains in a way that even Astute and Bazza could understand. They of course cannot see this link as I am blocked. It takes over an hour, but if you are interested in an explanation...

I can’t be bothered to read anything he says

The Irish problem will go one of two ways. There will inevitably be a delay in the decision on Ireland - the so called backstop. The country can then call a poll to decide if it wants unification. It will be clear that if it does not it accepts the possibility one day that the border can become one where goods and services are inspected - as they are in many countries around the world.

McDonnell has made his position clear so the DuP if they go against May will effectively be signing a unification treaty

Good luck with that

 

[martcov]

I can’t be bothered to read anything he says

The Irish problem will go one of two ways. There will inevitably be a delay in the decision on Ireland - the so called backstop. The country can then call a poll to decide if it wants unification. It will be clear that if it does not it accepts the possibility one day that the border can become one where goods and services are inspected - as they are in many countries around the world.

McDonnell has made his position clear so the DuP if they go against May will effectively be signing a unification treaty

Good luck with that

It's a video. It explains the English problem. His opinion of a solution at the end is a 3 question, refined to 2 question, final vote. If, after making an informed decision, the British still vote for self harm, then that is the end of it. Most of the video though was a balanced explanation to an American audience. He is Irish and reporting on Brexit from a relatively neutral point of view. Altough he thinks Brexit is a crazy idea which died at birth as the promises made cannot be kept.

The Irish are supposedly recruiting over a thousand customs officers.

 

[Grendel]

It's a video. It explains the English problem. His opinion of a solution at the end is a 3 question, refined to 2 question, final vote. If, after making an informed decision, the British still vote for self harm, then that is the end of it. Most of the video though was a balanced explanation to an American audience. He is Irish and reporting on Brexit from a relatively neutral point of view. Altough he thinks Brexit is a crazy idea which died at birth as the promises made cannot be kept.

The Irish are supposedly recruiting over a thousand customs officers.

He is in my view - despite his so called objectivity and great thinking - an apologist as shown in his comments on Britain’s smallest beach.

 

[Astute]

For fucks sake. The UK, the EU and Ireland have agreed that the border question needs sorting before trade talks start.

Why change the truth?

The EU said we had to find a solution to the Ireland border problem before we can talk trade. I said at the time that they are just trying to make it as hard as they can for us to leave.

Here is a paragraph from the BBC link I gave that shows you that the few of you are talking rubbish about trade deal negotiations before the border problems would cause more problems.

The reason why an agreement on the backstop is so important is that the EU won't agree to a transitional period and substantive trade talks until it is in place.

And how about explaining how it is easier sorting out the border problem without knowing any details at all of a trade deal.

 

[skybluetony176]

It’s the governments stance. It’s a nonsense argument to suggest Colditz style borders would exist - as they didn’t across Europe prior 1992

When have they stated that? They seem to be ignoring the issue as the PSNI boss has pointed out publicly. Colditz style borders? I think you’re trying to dramatise it a tad there. The PSNI are planning on policing it though. Like I said in the 70’s the black market was big business. I can’t see the authorities turning a blind eye to criminal activity. We’ll have to enforce it as we will have no choice.

 

[Astute]

When have they stated that? They seem to be ignoring the issue as the PSNI boss has pointed out publicly. Colditz style borders? I think you’re trying to dramatise it a tad there. The PSNI are planning on policing it though. Like I said in the 70’s the black market was big business. I can’t see the authorities turning a blind eye to criminal activity. We’ll have to enforce it as we will have no choice.

How about explaining your rubbish about a trade deal before the Irish border making more problems and not less?

I saw you left no comment about the BBC link. Is that because you can't accuse the pro EU BBC of being pro Brexit?

 

[martcov]

Why change the truth?

The EU said we had to find a solution to the Ireland border problem before we can talk trade. I said at the time that they are just trying to make it as hard as they can for us to leave.

Here is a paragraph from the BBC link I gave that shows you that the few of you are talking rubbish about trade deal negotiations before the border problems would cause more problems.

The reason why an agreement on the backstop is so important is that the EU won't agree to a transitional period and substantive trade talks until it is in place.

And how about explaining how it is easier sorting out the border problem without knowing any details at all of a trade deal.

The Irish border is the external border of 27 countries. The EU has offered special status to avoid the problems.

The DUP won’t accept it.

 

[martcov]

How about explaining your rubbish about a trade deal before the Irish border making more problems and not less?

I saw you left no comment about the BBC link. Is that because you can't accuse the pro EU BBC of being pro Brexit?

My god. The BBC explains it as we all understand it. Astute doesn’t understand that the BBC confirms what we are saying.

 

[skybluetony176]

How about explaining your rubbish about a trade deal before the Irish border making more problems and not less?

I saw you left no comment about the BBC link. Is that because you can't accuse the pro EU BBC of being pro Brexit?

You really don’t read anything. I said sort the border out and that will shape the trade deal. Somehow you’ve twisted that into the exact opposite of what I said.

 

[Grendel]

When have they stated that? They seem to be ignoring the issue as the PSNI boss has pointed out publicly. Colditz style borders? I think you’re trying to dramatise it a tad there. The PSNI are planning on policing it though. Like I said in the 70’s the black market was big business. I can’t see the authorities turning a blind eye to criminal activity. We’ll have to enforce it as we will have no choice.

Why was black market big business in the 70’s

 

[skybluetony176]

Why was black market big business in the 70’s

Because some goods were cheaper through the black market either side of the border so cross border smuggling was big business. Before the 70’s also.

When did the government say that we aren’t going to enforce a border.