The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (181 Viewers)

[clint van damme]

Business back it, because it is no change for them but the public see it as an unacceptable failure, half want to reverse the decision and half say sod it lets just walk out and see how the EU like that. Fasten your seat belts we are heading for heavy turbulence.

Business also back it because we're 5 months away from being the only country in the world without a trade deal and operating exclusively under WTO rules.
It will be a disaster but it's just something we're all going to have to live with.

 

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[skybluetony176]

I spent years working in Belfast as well as having family from here. So I'm not just coming at this from an outsiders standpoint.

Society has moved on but there's still hatred and divide in the air. A few years ago they decided to not fly the union jack everyday from the city hall and the unionists rioted for a week. They caused millions of pounds of damage because of a flag.... So imagine what they'd do at the proposition of "their country" being taken away?

Also, there's a lot of Catholic people in N.Ireland getting British benefits they would never get in the south and it's a rip off down there too so I doubt even as many nationalists would vote for a united Ireland than one would assume.

Better the devil you know.

My family is from the border county of Fermanagh and it’s a different picture to Belfast. That’s not to diminish your opinion. Whatever happens there will continue to be hotspots of trouble and Belfast will undoubtedly be one of them. Not everything is a rip off in the south and one of the benefits of living at the border is consumer choice to shop either side. The people of Northern Ireland will also lose the benefits of living in the EU, that also has a price and the difference between the north and south in terms of healthcare, social housing, education, civil rights, policing etc isn’t the gulf it used be and in many ways is superior in the south.

 

[Sick Boy]

My family is from the border county of Fermanagh and it’s a different picture to Belfast. That’s not to diminish your opinion. Whatever happens there will continue to be hotspots of trouble and Belfast will undoubtedly be one of them. Not everything is a rip off in the south and one of the benefits of living at the border is consumer choice to shop either side. The people of Northern Ireland will also lose the benefits of living in the EU, that also has a price and the difference between the north and south in terms of healthcare, social housing, education, civil rights, policing etc isn’t the gulf it used be and in many ways is superior in the south.

It's mad that essentially Irish passport holders have more rights than British passport holders - free to live and vote in the UK without restrictions and EU rights.

 

[Astute]

If you’re capable of understanding it I actually haven’t said any such thing. When I said that its down to decades of successive governments failing to invest in the infrastructure that our growing economy demands that includes enough housing to house the immigration that our growing economy demands. They’re intrinsically connected which is why I’ve always also said that you have two options, shrink the economy to the point that it suits our infrastructure or invest in the infrastructure to keep up. It’s our economy that demands immigration and therefore an investment in infrastructure to accommodate a growing population to accommodate a growing economy. It’s a failure to invest that’s the issue which ever direction you want to look at it, unless of course you want to shrink the economy to alleviate the problem.

Changing history of what you have said again I see. And trying to change what I mean when I have said something. Just like you tried to do with the Irish and Romanian populations.

So me saying that we need to catch up with the infrastructure in the UK and the best way of doing it is to slow down the incoming rate is me saying that I am anti immigration? No. I am anti people not having anywhere to live. But of course you will try to twist everything you can. Sidestep Tony strikes again.

 

[skybluetony176]

Changing history of what you have said again I see. And trying to change what I mean when I have said something. Just like you tried to do with the Irish and Romanian populations.

So me saying that we need to catch up with the infrastructure in the UK and the best way of doing it is to slow down the incoming rate is me saying that I am anti immigration? No. I am anti people not having anywhere to live. But of course you will try to twist everything you can. Sidestep Tony strikes again.

Not changing anything. You’ve just failed to understand what I said in the first place. Do you think that when I talk about the infrastructure that the economy demands I was being selective and only talking about the economy created only by people born in the U.K.? Maybe you thought I meant only the economy created by people living and working here from other parts of the EU? I was of course just talking about the economy and the demands of the economy. A single entity. Successive governments over decades have failed to invest in the infrastructure required to fulfill our growing economy whether you’ve lived here all your life or arrived last week. The economy demands that you’re here, it’s successive governments that have failed to invest in the infrastructure for everyone here. I really can’t dumb it down anymore for you so if you still don’t understand what I’ve said I’m out.

 

[skybluetony176]

It's mad that essentially Irish passport holders have more rights than British passport holders - free to live and vote in the UK without restrictions and EU rights.

Dual nationality is the only way to go.

 

[fellatio_Martinez]

My family is from the border county of Fermanagh and it’s a different picture to Belfast. That’s not to diminish your opinion. Whatever happens there will continue to be hotspots of trouble and Belfast will undoubtedly be one of them. Not everything is a rip off in the south and one of the benefits of living at the border is consumer choice to shop either side. The people of Northern Ireland will also lose the benefits of living in the EU, that also has a price and the difference between the north and south in terms of healthcare, social housing, education, civil rights, policing etc isn’t the gulf it used be and in many ways is superior in the south.

I think we can agree that it's a very complicated matter!

The cost if living is considerably higher in the south though. The amount of southern families driving across the border to shop is incredible and that can't be so readily dismissed when considering the motives behind what way someone might vote.

 

[chiefdave]

Apparently Gove has just turned down the position of Brexit Secretary, this is one of the leaders of the official brexit campaign who wanted the PM’s job when Cameron resigned. He’s looking more and more like a bregretter every week. Doesn’t want the job of delivering it and seems to back May (publicly at least) at every turn. It can’t be the same guy can it?

This is the big problem for me. All those who backed leave did a runner as soon as the result was announced and now just sit on the sidelines taking pot shots. Lets get one of them front and centre and see if they can deliver what was promised.

The odds list for potential May replacements is depressing reading:
Dominic Raab - 5/1
Sajid Javid - 11/2
Boris Johnson - 6/1
Michael Gove - 17/2
Jeremy Hunt - 17/2
Jacob Rees-Mogg - 17/2
David Davis - 17/2

 

[Captain Dart]

Allegedly Gove has been offered Brexit secretary & will only accept it if he can renegotiate the deal, but he might resign from cabinet instead.

And May has call;ed a press conference at 17:00, so she might be resigning.

 

[Earlsdon_Skyblue1]

It's weird you've never mentioned that when others have posted Farage's call on here

To be honest with you every time there is a caller on there saying they've changed their mind it sounds staged. Both sides of the coin!

I've not heard the Farage one but if it's what I think it is (remainer saying they'd now vote leave) I would take that with a pinch of salt too!

 

[skybluetony176]

I think we can agree that it's a very complicated matter!

The cost if living is considerably higher in the south though. The amount of southern families driving across the border to shop is incredible and that can't be so readily dismissed when considering the motives behind what way someone might vote.

View attachment 10940

It’s definitely complicated.

Not sure when your link dates from or specifically where the comparisons are being drawn from. For example the cost of living in Dublin is high compared to Belfast. But the cost of living in Dublin is also expensive compared to the rest of Ireland in much the same way the cost of living in London is expensive compared to the rest of England. You also have to factor in the nosedive the pound has taken. You don’t get as many Euros for the pound these days and things like eating out in the south has gone up because of this, whereas when visiting family we used to cross the border regularly to eat out because it worked out cheaper with the exchange rate. Not so much now. Fuel is still cheaper in the south, my family always cross the border to fill up although again the exchange rate has diminished the gain in the last couple of years. A lot of my family of working age work in the south and get paid in euros so the other side of that is when they convert their wages into pounds they’ve had a pay rise. If I go past Tesco’s in Enniskillen it’s always full of cars with southern plates so like you point out groceries are more expensive in the south. It’s swings and roundabouts.

 

[SIR ERNIE]

The odds list for potential May replacements is depressing reading:
Dominic Raab - 5/1
Sajid Javid - 11/2
Boris Johnson - 6/1
Michael Gove - 17/2
Jeremy Hunt - 17/2
Jacob Rees-Mogg - 17/2
David Davis - 17/2

depressing compared to who? clearly not the Labour leader.

 

[clint van damme]

This is the big problem for me. All those who backed leave did a runner as soon as the result was announced and now just sit on the sidelines taking pot shots. Lets get one of them front and centre and see if they can deliver what was promised.

The odds list for potential May replacements is depressing reading:
Dominic Raab - 5/1
Sajid Javid - 11/2
Boris Johnson - 6/1
Michael Gove - 17/2
Jeremy Hunt - 17/2
Jacob Rees-Mogg - 17/2
David Davis - 17/2

when those are the candidates for leader of one of the two main parties in the UK we are absolutely fucked.

I'm fucking flabbergasted that Raab, who has shown he has absolutely no grasp of the issues surrounding Brexit being touted as a leader beggars belief.
I never thought I'd hear myself utter these words but Gove is by far the est candidate out of that lot.

 

[skybluetony176]

Gove is by far the best candidate out of that lot.

I’d have to agree. It’s a bit like picking your favourite tasting turd though.

 

[clint van damme]

depressing compared to who? clearly not the Labour leader.

I can't say for sure, but I'd wager a fair bit of cash that Corbyn knows that Dover to Calais in an important trading route between the UK and the EU, just a hunch.

 

[clint van damme]

To be honest with you every time there is a caller on there saying they've changed their mind it sounds staged. Both sides of the coin!

I've not heard the Farage one but if it's what I think it is (remainer saying they'd now vote leave) I would take that with a pinch of salt too!

those calls are fine if they give some salient reason for changing their mind, breaking down crying is just emotive nonsense and probably a set up.

 

[SkyblueBazza]

...but the EU have a united front - literally a front!
"Upset over fish, France leads EU criticism of draft Brexit deal" - Upset over fish, France leads EU criticism of draft Brexit deal | Reuters

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[Grendel]

I can't say for sure, but I'd wager a fair bit of cash that Corbyn knows that Dover to Calais in an important trading route between the UK and the EU, just a hunch.

That will help when interest rates doubles and so does your mortgage

 

[clint van damme]

That will help when interest rates doubles and so does your mortgage

it would help when you're the incumbent Brexit Secretary.

 

[Grendel]

it would help when you're the incumbent Brexit Secretary.

I’d rather that level of incompetence that Corbynomics thanks

 

[clint van damme]

I’d rather that level of incompetence that Corbynomics thanks

You've no idea what Corbyns level of competence in government would be.

If we've got to the stage where Raab or Davis are acceptable under any circumstance then we are screwed.

 

[Grendel]

You've no idea what Corbyns level of competence in government would be.

If we've got to the stage where Raab or Davis are acceptable under any circumstance then we are screwed.

I know even the Shadow chancellor said they’d be a run on the pound

 

[ccfc92]

You've no idea what Corbyns level of competence in government would be.

If we've got to the stage where Raab or Davis are acceptable under any circumstance then we are screwed.

The thought of Corbyn "having a go" though, is frightening in itself.

 

[lifeskyblue]

The thought of Corbyn "having a go" though, is frightening in itself.

As frightening as a Tory party tearing itself apart whilst in government? Delivering on nothing whilst the vultures circling.
I’m not really a Corby fan but this government has hamstrung itself and blood letting just begun.


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[ccfc92]

As frightening as a Tory party tearing itself apart whilst in government? Delivering on nothing whilst the vultures circling.
I’m not really a Corby fan but this government has hamstrung itself and blood letting just begun.


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I think the whole way it's being panned out is concerning. I voted Leave, but think the whole process since has been a disaster.

I couldn't get my head around May, who was pro-EU I believe, becoming PM.

We need a strong government/PM to lead us through Brexit. Something that we haven't had, yet.

 

[skybluetony176]

I admire her resolve if nothing else.

 

[Gazolba]

The big sticking point now seems to be the Northern Ireland border.
As I see it only two options can work.
Either Ireland unites and ceases to be part of the UK entirely.
Seems highly unlikely that could be achieved except in the very long term.
Or, a hard border is created between the North and South.
I don't know why the vehement opposition to a hard border, they are after all two separate countries and they will be even more separate after the UK leaves the EU.
Any other solution will be a nightmare to administer.

 

[lifeskyblue]

May at press conference repeating same old lines. She is like the proverbial ostrich...not acknowledging that the whole situation has changed with all those MPs publicly saying the deal is a non starter.


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[Grendel]

May is doing a great speech and is answering all the press onslaught calmly.

It’s Caesar before the Ides of March

 

[Sick Boy]

I think the whole way it's being panned out is concerning. I voted Leave, but think the whole process since has been a disaster.

I couldn't get my head around May, who was pro-EU I believe, becoming PM.

We need a strong government/PM to lead us through Brexit. Something that we haven't had, yet.

Who would have been your choice then? I wonder why the likes of Johnson and Gove have never wanted to accept ownership of it?

 

[lifeskyblue]

May is doing a great speech and is answering all the press onslaught calmly.

It’s Caesar before the Ides of March

Certainly her resilience is admirable. But her command of reality suspect.


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[SIR ERNIE]

You've no idea what Corbyns level of competence in government would be.

Doesn't matter does it? as long as he knows where Dover is...

 

[Sick Boy]

May at press conference repeating same old lines. She is like the proverbial ostrich...not acknowledging that the whole situation has changed with all those MPs publicly saying the deal is a non starter.


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Considering the position she has been in, I'm not sure what else she could have in terms of the deal. The likes of JRM are all mouth, they have offered no viable solution for anything and just run their mouths off.

 

[clint van damme]

Doesn't matter does it? as long as he knows where Dover is...

when he's trying to get us a deal that will do the least amount of damage to trade and the economy, then yes it does.
Ditto Davis not knowing that you couldn't do individual trade deals with the remaining 27 EU countries.

It's incompetence of the highest order and you know it, saying so doesn't mean you're endorsing Corbyn, it's just recognising rank mediocrity.

 

[lifeskyblue]

Considering the position she has been in, I'm not sure what else she could have in terms of the deal. The likes of JRM are all mouth, they have offered no viable solution for anything and just run their mouths off.

Agree that JRM and Boris et al are all mouth and no ideas. But they have a vote, just like all other MPs, and they are not voting for her deal. I just think her approach will get her nowhere whereas a little softening may have blunted a few Tory claws and drawn in a few labour MPs.


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