Iran & USA (11 Viewers)

[skybluetony176]

Watching some of the coverage of his funeral making its way through Iraq and Trump seems to have done something never achieved before. Unite Iran and Iraq. Against the West and specifically America but unite them nether the less. Well done you genius. This ain’t going to end well.

 

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[duffer]

...but they did, and we have what we have, and we have not too much military might do anything about anything very much ourselves in other parts of the world.

So other than to side with the Russians or Chinese we simply have to go it alone & get picked on/walked over, or stick with the US who we have relied on heavily so much in the past.

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Quick question here, who exactly is picking on us/walking over us?

There's no existential threat to the UK so that argument doesnt really stand up.

As a member of NATO, every other member is duty-bound to assist should there ever be such a threat.

Other members of NATO do not feel obliged to blindly support every act of hostility that the US blunders into, and neither should we.

I have no hatred of America, far from it, but whatever soft-power we have left on the global stage is based on our history of supporting the rule of law and international diplomacy, rather than abrogating it. We may be allies of the US, but following them uncritically every step of the way serves neither their nor our best interests, imho.

 

[fellatio_Martinez]

Well done you genius. This ain’t going to end well.

What's going to happen?

America will flatten Iran if they do anything to threaten Homeland security and they know that.

Bollocks all will happen.

 

[chiefdave]

America will flatten Iran if they do anything to threaten Homeland security and they know that.

What makes you so sure it will be an easy win for the US rather than another Korea or Vietnam, or even another Iraq or Afghanistan?

I mean the last time the US took on Iran, backing Saddam Hussein and Iraq, was hardly a success.

 

[fellatio_Martinez]

What makes you so sure it will be an easy win for the US rather than another Korea or Vietnam, or even another Iraq or Afghanistan?

I mean the last time the US took on Iran, backing Saddam Hussein and Iraq, was hardly a success.

Have Iran ever attacked the USA?

 

[chiefdave]

Have Iran ever attacked the USA?

9/11 according to VP Pence.

Trump is playing a very dangerous game if he's making decisions based on the assumption Iran won't carry out attacks on the US in response.

 

[skybluetony176]

What's going to happen?

America will flatten Iran if they do anything to threaten Homeland security and they know that.

Bollocks all will happen.

You seem to be under idea that if you get a country or the man it’s over, you’ve won. It’s bigger than that. Rich Hall put it well when talking about the assassination of Osama Bin Laden, just because it’s Colonel Sanders face on the bucket it doesn’t mean he’s out back frying the chicken. This is much bigger than Qasem Soleimani and Iran and Trump has just ensured it gets bigger again.

 

[skybluetony176]

Have Iran ever attacked the USA?

Did you see Trump’s press conference?

 

[eastwoodsdustman]

Iranian leaders are always spouting hate towards the west and USA. Very little will come of it ither than the ayatollah currying favour with his subjects and a few more amreican flags getting burned.
There will be another round of sanctions and probably more troops in Iraq( which was goinf to happen anyhow given the increase in trouble and tensions rising there).

 

[chiefdave]

The genius has tweeted to the world that he is planning to commit war crimes. Someone needs to take his phone off him and show him Article 8 of the Statute of the International Criminal Court.

(ii) Intentionally directing attacks against civilian objects, that is, objects which are not military objectives;

(v) Attacking or bombarding, by whatever means, towns, villages, dwellings or buildings which are undefended and which are not military objectives;

(ix) Intentionally directing attacks against buildings dedicated to religion, education, art, science or charitable purposes, historic monuments, hospitals and places where the sick and wounded are collected, provided they are not military objectives;

 

[Marty]

The genius has tweeted to the world that he is planning to commit war crimes. Someone needs to take his phone off him and show him Article 8 of the Statute of the International Criminal Court.

Nice to have a strong president in the oval office for once, I fully support Trump on this. Iran won't do anything, they're surrounded by US military bases, they know they'll be playing into the Americans hands by pushing back.

 

[Sick Boy]

The genius has tweeted to the world that he is planning to commit war crimes. Someone needs to take his phone off him and show him Article 8 of the Statute of the International Criminal Court.

The guys a fucking idiot, it seems he thinks military might puts him and his country above international law.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Nice to have a strong president in the oval office for once, I fully support Trump on this. Iran won't do anything, they're surrounded by US military bases, they know they'll be playing into the Americans hands by pushing back.

Baa Baa

 

[fernandopartridge]

9/11 according to VP Pence.

Trump is playing a very dangerous game if he's making decisions based on the assumption Iran won't carry out attacks on the US in response.

Any attacks are likely to be non military I think, cyber attack is likely and maybe a tokenistic military one

 

[stupot07]

Here's an interesting thread on Trumps decision.



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[Liquid Gold]

Following the law is so 20th century anyway.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Following the law is so 20th century anyway.

Go on home Yankee soldiers, go on home...

 

[CCFCSteve]

Here's an interesting thread on Trumps decision.



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Thanks for the link. Very interesting

I’m totally torn on this matter so avoid commenting. I think the ‘why now’ question rather than ‘why’ appears to be the most interesting

 

[SkyblueBazza]

Quick question here, who exactly is picking on us/walking over us?

There's no existential threat to the UK so that argument doesnt really stand up.

As a member of NATO, every other member is duty-bound to assist should there ever be such a threat.

Other members of NATO do not feel obliged to blindly support every act of hostility that the US blunders into, and neither should we.

I have no hatred of America, far from it, but whatever soft-power we have left on the global stage is based on our history of supporting the rule of law and international diplomacy, rather than abrogating it. We may be allies of the US, but following them uncritically every step of the way serves neither their nor our best interests, imho.

Nobody at present.

If some of our posters had their way we would stand alone in the world (or add wind to the EU sail), & have an even smaller military capacity but do nothing with it...British interests in Gibralter & the Falklands would be at risk soon enough. Then British interests around the world would be fair game in a free-for-all.

As for NATO...if we were to have a NATO country occupying another's territory it would all be chit-chat & nothing done. Our only chance of NATO properly intervening is if we are ever attacked or overrun from within...France might not like the latter & aid us there, otherwise we rely on the US.

As for supporting the US...I am merely advocating we provide moral support for their action once we find out more...not declare war on Iran! If we don't like their reasonings, then we would benefit most by expressing the dislike before just keeping quiet. So I guess I mostly agree with your last paragraph.

It seems this General was sent into Iraq with the sole purpose of uniting the Iraquis behind Iran (hence Tony is not 100% in his Trump jibe). The key bit the US et al have not done sufficiently well. Iran, as you no doubt noticed, has some pretty sinister intentions (at least it's Government does...most Iranians seem like lovely people the same as most places in the world at ground level). Those intentions threaten peace & stability globally much more than the US assassinating an Iranian General imo

The stated "52 targets" are not going to be dismissed as irrelevant or unlikely by Iran either. The big problem is their reported sponsorship of terror...we will have to deal with that as & when or if they escalate things on that score I guess.

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[SkyblueBazza]

The genius has tweeted to the world that he is planning to commit war crimes. Someone needs to take his phone off him and show him Article 8 of the Statute of the International Criminal Court.

He hasn't said he will target civilians specifically, but will get around all 3 if he can show that civilians & cultural buildings are being used to sheild legitemate military targets. It's all been done before.

Sadly international law counts for very little anyway. China, Russia & the US among many others have all demonstrated they don't hold it in too high a regard when it comes to doing what they want.

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[Nick]

He hasn't said he will target civilians specifically, but will get around all 3 if he can show that civilians & cultural buildings are being used to sheild legitemate military targets. It's all been done before.

Sadly international law counts for very little anyway. China, Russia & the US among many others have all demonstrated they don't hold it in too high a regard when it comes to doing what they want.

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Decent game wasn't it?

 

[tisza]

Symbolic of so many issues in the middle East.
You've got a sponsor of terrorism acting with impunity in another country.
Again it's being split down the lines of sunni and Shia factions.
Where are the dividing lines between assassinating Bin Laden & suleimani?
Is it Trump's right to unilaterally decide to take Suleimani out?
How do you stop Iran being a state sponsor of terrorism? Anyone fancy being an Iraqi sunni if Iran isn't stopped?
Don't see where you end up with clear answers. Allow Iran to carry on and they'll be sat on Saudi Arabia border. Is it Israel next?
But who has the right to intervene? Will killing one man escalate out of all control? (ww1 suggests it can).
Iran has to respond to preserve its "image/reputation" in the region. But Trump can't let himself either get involved in a large scale conflict or ignore retaliation. Should he just them Pence in an eye for eye deal?
All messed up. Again it'll be the civilians who bear the brunt of govt ego and conflicting ideologies

 

[clint van damme]

Symbolic of so many issues in the middle East.
You've got a sponsor of terrorism acting with impunity in another country.
Again it's being split down the lines of sunni and Shia factions.
Where are the dividing lines between assassinating Bin Laden & suleimani?
Is it Trump's right to unilaterally decide to take Suleimani out?
How do you stop Iran being a state sponsor of terrorism? Anyone fancy being an Iraqi sunni if Iran isn't stopped?
Don't see where you end up with clear answers. Allow Iran to carry on and they'll be sat on Saudi Arabia border. Is it Israel next?
But who has the right to intervene? Will killing one man escalate out of all control? (ww1 suggests it can).
Iran has to respond to preserve its "image/reputation" in the region. But Trump can't let himself either get involved in a large scale conflict or ignore retaliation. Should he just them Pence in an eye for eye deal?
All messed up. Again it'll be the civilians who bear the brunt of govt ego and conflicting ideologies

the thing is,according to the national counter terrorism centre (or should that be center as it's American), the main terror threat comes from Sunni groups. All the major terror attacks in Europe have been claimed by Sunni groups.
There is strong evidence to link the funding of these groups to the Gulf States and particularly Saudi.

Yes we seem to constantly seem to obsess about Iran. Now obviously is an Islamic theocracy and Hezbollah is a powerful terrorist group but how much of a threat to us are they compared to the Sunni groups?
I don't understand why we let the Saudis and their ilk get away, literally, with murder.

 

[Cov City Daytrader 87]

Found something from the Telegraph. It's seem the SAS wanted take out this guy back in 2007. But David Milliband call it off.

Revealed: David Miliband called off SAS strike on Iranian General Qassim Soleimani in 2007

 

[tisza]

the thing is,according to the national counter terrorism centre (or should that be center as it's American), the main terror threat comes from Sunni groups. All the major terror attacks in Europe have been claimed by Sunni groups.
There is strong evidence to link the funding of these groups to the Gulf States and particularly Saudi.

Yes we seem to constantly seem to obsess about Iran. Now obviously is an Islamic theocracy and Hezbollah is a powerful terrorist group but how much of a threat to us are they compared to the Sunni groups?
I don't understand why we let the Saudis and their ilk get away, literally, with murder.

That's why it's a mess. Both sects have terrorist links.
Just because Shia activity is currently based on building a large powerbase in the middle East doesn't mean it isn't a threat to other areas in the future.
Just because their body count is mainly in the middle East shouldn't mean people should say it's not other countries problems.
The large scale of sunni activity in the middle East was taken on by other factions backed by Western powers.
Why do the weapons manufacturers continue to get away with supplying and fuelling the conflict from both sides?
Do other nations sit back and let sunnis and shias slaughter each other until one side wins out? Does Europe have to permanently shut its borders to stop the conflict being exported from the Middle East?
Or do we just wait and see if their conflicts move on from theological motivations to the more normal ones of greed and ideology (like we did in Europe).

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

That's why it's a mess. Both sects have terrorist links.
Just because Shia activity is currently based on building a large powerbase in the middle East doesn't mean it isn't a threat to other areas in the future.
Just because their body count is mainly in the middle East shouldn't mean people should say it's not other countries problems.
The large scale of sunni activity in the middle East was taken on by other factions backed by Western powers.
Why do the weapons manufacturers continue to get away with supplying and fuelling the conflict from both sides?
Do other nations sit back and let sunnis and shias slaughter each other until one side wins out? Does Europe have to permanently shut its borders to stop the conflict being exported from the Middle East?
Or do we just wait and see if their conflicts move on from theological motivations to the more normal ones of greed and ideology (like we did in Europe).

Surely we could lead by example and declare the Saudis an Islamist dictatorship headed by war criminals? Expect we’ll keep calling them allies regardless

 

[Sick Boy]

And now the coalition working together against ISIS has been called off because of this, nice work.

 

[tisza]

Surely we could lead by example and declare the Saudis an Islamist dictatorship headed by war criminals? Expect we’ll keep calling them allies regardless

So people go to war with Saudis as well?
Iran hardly more democratic than the likes of China.
It's just a self perpetuating problem. Need to face it - always going to be wars.
Russia and China in an arms race again with the US. Russian eyes on the artic, Chinese on the South China Sea. At least that's greed rather than ideology.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

So people go to war with Saudis as well?
Iran hardly more democratic than the likes of China.
It's just a self perpetuating problem. Need to face it - always going to be wars.
Russia and China in an arms race again with the US. Russian eyes on the artic, Chinese on the South China Sea. At least that's greed rather than ideology.

I didn’t say war but I want us to turn off the weapons tap for a state that has more in common with ISIS than anywhere else

 

[fellatio_Martinez]

Go on home Yankee soldiers, go on home...

You weren't saying that when they saved yo ass in double u double u 2!!!

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

You weren't saying that when they saved yo ass in double u double u 2!!!

The Commies sacrificed far more towards that particular cause

 

[fellatio_Martinez]

The Commies sacrificed far more towards that particular cause

Damn commies didn't do nuffin.

 

[skybluetony176]

Iraqi MPs back call to expel US troops

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Damn commies didn't do nuffin.

Yeah well we saved YOUR arse in World War 3

 

[Alan Dugdales Moustache]

The yanks never ever learn .
What they really need is a bloody nose in their own back yard.
They can make a box office hit "movie" about it a few years later and rewrite the facts.