George Floyd (21 Viewers)

[ccfc92]

Isn't that missing the point that Akinfenwa himself compared himself to a Water Buffalo?

"Ahh, but...."

 

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[skybluetony176]

Isn't that missing the point that Akinfenwa himself compared himself to a Water Buffalo?

Some black people refer to other black people by the “N” word. Are you suggesting that it has the same connotation when a member of the far right uses the “N” word to address a black person.

 

[Nick]

Some black people refer to other black people by the “N” word. Are you suggesting that it has the same connotation when a member of the far right uses the “N” word to address a black person.

How do you know the bloke at Fleetwood was far right?

Maybe people should stop referring to other people in offensive terms if they are offended by it?

If I said I looked like Casper the ghost and then somebody who wasn't white said it, is that OK? I would look a bit silly trying to claim they were being racist after I had openly said it myself.

 

[skybluetony176]

How do you know the bloke at Fleetwood was far right?

Maybe people should stop referring to other people in offensive terms if they are offended by it?

If I said I looked like Casper the ghost and then somebody who wasn't white said it, is that OK? I would look a bit silly trying to claim they were being racist after I had openly said it myself.

How do you know he wasn’t? I didn’t actually say he was by the way.
When did he say it by the way and what was the context? I’ve googled him saying it about himself and am struggling to find anything past a few dubious right wing looking platforms claiming that he once said it about himself. Do you have a link?

 

[Deleted member 5849]

I'm reminded of this.

 

[Nick]

How do you know he wasn’t? I didn’t actually say he was by the way.
When did he say it by the way and what was the context? I’ve googled him saying it about himself and am struggling to find anything past a few dubious right wing looking platforms claiming that he once said it about himself. Do you have a link?

So what has far right got to do with anything? Is it the case that somebody is far right unless proven otherwise now?

It's in this thread, he literally posted a picture of a Water Buffalo with a lion on it's back alongside a picture of him with a teammate on his back. It looks very much like skin colour was referenced too.

It has nothing to do with a dubious right wing looking platform, it's something he posted himself.

So again, is it offensive if he himself is posting the same comparison on social media platforms for somebody else to say it?

 

[ccfc92]

I'm reminded of this.

One thing this has reminded me off, is in New York there is a street scam that relies heavily on Racism.

Basically, a large group of Black men/lads walk up to you and say "Shake a black man's hand".

It's obvious they are trying to earn money from something (this occasion it was "selling" their CD's, so it puts you in a position of if you say "No, not interested" will they attack you verbally calling you racist etc or do you just hand over some change straight away?

Be interested to hear people's thoughts on things like this?

 

[ccfc92]

How do you know he wasn’t? I didn’t actually say he was by the way.
When did he say it by the way and what was the context? I’ve googled him saying it about himself and am struggling to find anything past a few dubious right wing looking platforms claiming that he once said it about himself. Do you have a link?

 

[Nick]

View attachment 16078

Yeah but it is just far right people photoshopping it.
He can say that as he is black.

 

[ccfc92]

Yeah but it is just far right people photoshopping it.
He can say that as he is black.

The little blue tick is definitely photoshopped...

 

[skybluetony176]

So what has far right got to do with anything? Is it the case that somebody is far right unless proven otherwise now?

It's in this thread, he literally posted a picture of a Water Buffalo with a lion on it's back alongside a picture of him with a teammate on his back. It looks very much like skin colour was referenced too.

It has nothing to do with a dubious right wing looking platform, it's something he posted himself.

So again, is it offensive if he himself is posting the same comparison on social media platforms for somebody else to say it?

So context has nothing to do with it. Is that what you’re saying? I’m saying it has everything to do with it. Understanding that very basic principle I would never address a black friend my “N” word regardless of how good a friend we might be, even if I’ve heard them refer to other black friends as my “N” word.
Context is everything. If you honestly can’t see that them you’re lost.

 

[skybluetony176]

View attachment 16078

And the context of that tweet is I was taken down not I’m a fat water buffalo. You can see the whole celebration in the highlights and the context is obvious.

 

[skybluetony176]

Yeah but it is just far right people photoshopping it.
He can say that as he is black.

He can say that because he’s saying that about himself. The context is the take down of a big animal by a slighter more agile animal. Not sure how you’re struggling with this.

 

[ccfc92]

And the context of that tweet is I was taken down not I’m a fat water buffalo. You can see the whole celebration in the highlights and the context is obvious.

It's weird though, how this Fleetwood player who "racially abused him", called him the exact animal in that Tweet.

Also, he wan't even directly told the insult, it's through one of his team mates. For that to be the Fleetwood player's choice of racial insult, when Akinfenwa wasn't even hearing it, is very odd.

 

[Nick]

He can say that because he’s saying that about himself. The context is the take down of a big animal by a slighter more agile animal. Not sure how you’re struggling with this.

So we are getting somewhere, people can say things about their self.

How do you know the context of somebody else saying it was racist and just not that he is a big animal?

So Akinfenwa can compare himself to a large, dark skinned animal and his team mate to a more agile lighter skinned animal but somebody comparing him to a large, dark skinned animal is racist?

It's pretty simple, if I took it as racist as being called "Casper the Ghost" or "Milky Bar Kid" I wouldn't post things on social media comparing myself to them.

 

[skybluetony176]

So we are getting somewhere, people can say things about their self.

How do you know the context of somebody else saying it was racist and just not that he is a big animal?

So Akinfenwa can compare himself to a large, dark skinned animal and his team mate to a more agile lighter skinned animal but somebody comparing him to a large, dark skinned animal is racist?

It's pretty simple, if I took it as racist as being called "Casper the Ghost" or "Milky Bar Kid" I wouldn't post things on social media comparing myself to them.

Still not sure how you’re not getting this. I’m assuming it’s deliberate. The context of the photo is a clear comparison of the size differences, colour doesn’t even come into it. I’m not sure why you’re going straight to colour. If I really wanted to be pedantic I’d also point out that the animal in the picture is an African buffalo not a water buffalo, water buffalos are native to Asia.

 

[skybluetony176]

It's weird though, how this Fleetwood player who "racially abused him", called him the exact animal in that Tweet.

Also, he wan't even directly told the insult, it's through one of his team mates. For that to be the Fleetwood player's choice of racial insult, when Akinfenwa wasn't even hearing it, is very odd.

Again, to be pedantic. They aren’t the same exact animal. A joke between two friends who I would think both identify as black and a white stranger using a different animal to insult someone is not even remotely the same thing.

 

[Nick]

Still not sure how you’re not getting this. I’m assuming it’s deliberate. The context of the photo is a clear comparison of the size differences, colour doesn’t even come into it. I’m not sure why you’re going straight to colour. If I really wanted to be pedantic I’d also point out that the animal in the picture is an African buffalo not a water buffalo, water buffalos are native to Asia.

Maybe because the colouring is exactly the same as well? Why is OK for Akinfenwa to go straight to colour but it can't be mentioned when he said it himself? This double standards stuff is bullshit.

It's ironic really because it seems according to you everything is racist unless proven otherwise.

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

Isn't that missing the point that Akinfenwa himself compared himself to a Water Buffalo?

That is a different scenario, although it does call in the whole "if they call themselves the N word why can't I do it" argument.

But the argument that was being put forward was that if someone else of the same skin colour is OK making that comparison by voicing a water buffalo character in a film then no-one of that skin colour can take offence, which is a nonsense statement.

As I've said before I think he got a bit precious about it and I don't think the person that made the original comparison was doing so because of race - it was more the size and weight of the animal. Of course the argument could be made of why didn't that person choose something like a hippo, rhino or elephant?

 

[Deleted member 5849]

I thought we'd got to the end of this aaages ago. If Akinfenwa thinks it's racist, then fine. The simple response is to apologise, and make a note not to call him it again.

 

[ccfc92]

That is a different scenario, although it does call in the whole "if they call themselves the N word why can't I do it" argument.

But the argument that was being put forward was that if someone else of the same skin colour is OK making that comparison by voicing a water buffalo character in a film then no-one of that skin colour can take offence, which is a nonsense statement.

As I've said before I think he got a bit precious about it and I don't think the person that made the original comparison was doing so because of race - it was more the size and weight of the animal. Of course the argument could be made of why didn't that person choose something like a hippo, rhino or elephant?

Wouldn't matter, it would automatically be racist due to the African association with them animals.

More crucially, especially as Akinfenwa was not in earshot, why did said Fleetwood player not use a proper racist slur if he was intending to be racist?

 

[Nick]

I thought we'd got to the end of this aaages ago. If Akinfenwa thinks it's racist, then fine. The simple response is to apologise, and make a note not to call him it again.

That's not how it works though, it's a very dangerous thing to set where "Its racist if the person says it is".

 

[Deleted member 5849]

That's not how it works though, it's a very dangerous thing to set where "Its racist if the person says it is".

Hang on so... if you were in a pub, said something to a bloke and he said he was offended because you'd said something racist to him, you'd argue with him and say nope you weren't being racist, because in 1973 he said something else...?

 

[RegTheDonk]

So is the issue that a black English man of Sierra Leonean and Ghanaian parents is playing an animal that’s native home is Asia?

As far as I'm concerned Tony there is no issue at all. It's a cartoon character being voiced by a faceless entity. It's called acting and I've stated my view on this before.

You've jumped on Alan saying he's trolling, but when ccfc92 raised cartoons you were very reasonable discussing it with him and nick Nick and went into a lot more detail. I think it's Alan you have the problem with rather than is the point offensive.

 

[Nick]

Hang on so... if you were in a pub, said something to a bloke and he said he was offended because you'd said something racist to him, you'd argue with him and say nope you weren't being racist, because in 1973 he said something else...?

1973? Akinfenwa literally said it this year. Can you think of a different situation?

It would depend what I said to the bloke, wouldn't it?

Although if I decided your post to me is racist I assume you are going to apologise for your racism? Because I said it was racist?

 

[skybluetony176]

Maybe because the colouring is exactly the same as well? Why is OK for Akinfenwa to go straight to colour but it can't be mentioned when he said it himself? This double standards stuff is bullshit.

It's ironic really because it seems according to you everything is racist unless proven otherwise.

The guy on Akinfenwas back is golden? I don’t think so.

 

[Nick]

The guy on Akinfenwas back is golden? I don’t think so.

In which case you will see it isn't racist to Akinfenwa by calling him one as he doesn't have massive horns and fur. Right?

You are far too keen for everything to be racist.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

1973? Akinfenwa literally said it this year. Can you think of a different situation?

It would depend what I said to the bloke, wouldn't it?

Although if I decided your post to me is racist I assume you are going to apologise for your racism? Because I said it was racist?

If I called you an emaciated polar bear then yep, I would. I'd think of a different insult for you, plenty of animals to go around. Halfwith caterpillar? Mutant Meercat? Plenty of options.

It doesn't mean it was meant in a racist way, or that the person saying it is a racist. However, the person receiving it has taken it in a racist way and the civil thing to do is to move on, rather than try and prove him wrong, when his reading isn't coming from nowhere, and it's obvious to see where he's coming from.

This is all becoming very Ron Atkinson!

 

[Nick]

If I called you an emaciated polar bear then yep, I would. I'd think of a different insult for you, plenty of animals to go around. Halfwith caterpillar? Mutant Meercat? Plenty of options.

But if I had posted a picture referring me to a polar bear previously and you then called me a polar bear, it wouldn't be racist. I feel for people who want to live their lives like that.

I should really start looking for racism and calling it out though, just because I am deciding it's racist. Imagine how fucked up it would be if everybody did that? Rather than dealing with things that actually are racist.

 

[skybluetony176]

But if I had posted a picture referring me to a polar bear previously and you then called me a polar bear, it wouldn't be racist. I feel for people who want to live their lives like that.

I should really start looking for racism and calling it out though, just because I am deciding it's racist. Imagine how fucked up it would be if everybody did that? Rather than dealing with things that actually are racist.

Nick. No one forced you to get involved in the conversation. It could be equally argued that you’re not looking for racism just so you can say things aren’t racist. Your arguments for it not being racist are flimsy to say the least. The context of both photos are clear. It’s a smaller predictor taking down a larger prey. It isn’t even the same animal, there’s a lot of difference between a African buffalo and a water buffalo aside from the continent. Water buffaloes are considerably bigger for a starter. Why did the guy have to compare him to a water buffalo anyway? He could have just called him a fat c**t. He used water buffalo as a derogative term, to what purpose? And then others start saying it’s okay because of Idris Elba, cartoon, talking animal. I mean fucking hell.

 

[Nick]

Nick. No one forced you to get involved in the conversation. It could be equally argued that you’re not looking for racism just so you can say things aren’t racist. Your arguments for it not being racist are flimsy to say the least. The context of both photos are clear. It’s a smaller predictor taking down a larger prey. It isn’t even the same animal, there’s a lot of difference between a African buffalo and a water buffalo aside from the continent. Water buffaloes are considerably bigger for a starter. Why did the guy have to compare him to a water buffalo anyway? He could have just called him a fat c**t. He used water buffalo as a derogative term, to what purpose? And then others start saying it’s okay because of Idris Elba, cartoon, talking animal. I mean fucking hell.

The fact you are having to get it down to the exact breed shows you are looking for racism. Why the attempt to dig as much as possible to find some strenuous link to make things racist.

All I am doing is asking why it is OK for him to make that comparison but it is racist when somebody else does? The same as when you said that guy in London was only stopped and searched because he was black.

You are going out of your way to make out everything is racist, i am just questioning how it is racist. At least NW says "because Akinfenwa says it is".

Again, why did Akinfenwa have to compare himself to a Buffalo? I am just putting the question back to people saying it is 100% racist for somebody to say that.

 

[Marty]

1973? Akinfenwa literally said it this year. Can you think of a different situation?

It would depend what I said to the bloke, wouldn't it?

Although if I decided your post to me is racist I assume you are going to apologise for your racism? Because I said it was racist?

The bloke is a clown, was wishing me dead a week ago after his pathetic hissy fit.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

But if I had posted a picture referring me to a polar bear previously and you then called me a polar bear, it wouldn't be racist.

Ron Atkinson calls somebody a nigger, black people call each other niggerz, Atkinson can't understand, therefore, why he was racist in his original term.

There's enough in the insult to have racist connotations if Akinfenwa receives it that way. I repeat, that doesn't make the person saying it a racist or, indeed, the statement being said as an intended racist slur.

But to argue with Akinfenwa that actually no, it's not racist, would be mental!

 

[Deleted member 5849]

The bloke is a clown, was wishing me dead a week ago after his pathetic hissy fit.

Insult me all you like,don't bring my family into it you prick.

 

[Nick]

Ron Atkinson calls somebody a nigger, black people call each other niggerz, Atkinson can't understand, therefore, why he was racist in his original term.

There's enough in the insult to have racist connotations if Akinfenwa receives it that way. I repeat, that doesn't make the person saying it a racist or, indeed, the statement being said as an intended racist slur.

But to argue with Akinfenwa that actually no, it's not racist, would be mental!

How far does it go with people saying things are deciding things that are said are racist?

Of course, there are the obvious racial slurs but how far can people go to try and find something racist about something said?