Do you want to discuss boring politics? (235 Viewers)

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

It might not be the most popular view, but I really like our electoral system (FPTP). It produces disproportionate winners and losers, but it mostly allows for strong governance. You have the odd decade where parliament is weak (1970s and 2010s).

To take 2019 as an example, you’ve had the stress of Brexit on the electorate and parliamentary deadlock with no end in sight. The strong Tory majority allowed the country to finally see Brexit through and alleviate what was becoming a toxic political environment. That’s the beauty of majoritarian electoral systems.

On the continent, proportional representative systems lead to more fragmented political systems, and that’s not a good thing. Frankly, would we want the political system of Germany, Spain, Portugal and Italy? Germany has had a grand coalition for most of the 2010s because neither major party had a coalition partner it found acceptable.

I’m not a Tory, nor a Brexiteer.

FPTP is fine, as long as it isn't the only way we have democratically elected parliament. We need a PR style upper house as well to oversee this rather than a heriditary system or one whereby the party in govt can elect new people to the upper chamber to gain control.

For me the benefit of FPTP is not necessarily strong govt but the election of a representative of a particular area in a constituency. Other systems can result in people not get the person/party most people actually want.

IMO on the larger scale it's our version of the electoral college, leading to skewed overall results. Plus a party that has control for a significant of time can also abuse their power. Gerry-mandering of boundaries to maximise your elected officials rather than represent the voters. Just this week in the Queen's Speech we've seen quite a few things that would consolidate power for the ruling party - voter ID for a non-existent problem that would only disenfranchise those less likely to vote for them. PM deciding when to hold an election so can pick and choose a time when they seem popular (like a footballer looking for a new contract in the middle of a purple patch). There were also parts about adding in further restrictions for protests and judicial reform. Plus in recent years the threat over the BBC funding that has resulted in far less scrutiny and criticism of the decisions or actions of the Tories plus the installation of a DG who is very much a follower of Tory ideals.

So basically, more power to govt, harder to vote for those who are less likely to vote for them, less opportunity to report or protest their actions or to take them to court. This is what 'strong governance' gets you in the end - autocracy and a shift towards extremes.

 

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[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

But that’s the point. There’s been a couple of high profile “deplatofrming” incidents, and this wouldn’t have stopped them. Meanwhile the government are deplatforming anyone with views they don’t like in academia.

It’s total virtue signalling. Will do nothing to address the problem and they clearly don’t care about it anyway. Absolute dictionary definition.

Government tells English schools not to use anti-capitalist material for teaching

Critics describe the guidance as "sinister", while a minister says it allows for a "curriculum that reflects diversity of views".

news.sky.com

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

But that's just it, you don't book in the first place, then!

The cancellations have been done thanks to popular protest, and I don't agree with that as such - go along and get a free heckle - but all that'll happen is there'll be no risk taken in who they book.

It'll be even more lefty!

I agree with the rest btw.

Isn't that how cancel culture works though? You start with protesting these speakers until such point as venues don't even bother to book them because of the hassle they'll get around it. Thus they are eventually silenced, or 'cancelled'.

What is a 'popular protest'? Does a few hundred, or even thousand, people screaming very loudly about something make them 'popular'? Or just noisy?

For me I'd rather let anyone say what they want and if you disagree go along and tear their argument apart. Make them look silly. Plus anyone who is taken in by such extremist views will be out in the open where you can keep an eye on them, rather than skulking around in the shadows saying 'they won't let me speak because I tell it like it is' without proper scrutiny. Give them enough rope and they eventually hang themselves with it.

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

What cake? Suspension is a standard part of investigation. You've gone from sharing racist Facebook groups to embracing cancel culture and being woke. Hell of a turnaround.

Someone ought to tell the government.

 

[Deleted member 11652]

Says the bloke who thinks Voter ID cards are necessary... because of 6 cases of voter fraud out of 30 odd million votes

Course you don’t agree with voter ID. It would guarantee a Tory government for the next 25 years

 

[PVA]

Course you don’t agree with voter ID. It would guarantee a Tory government for the next 25 years

So you think preventing millions of people voting is democratic?

Of course you do. Why am I not surprised.

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

This is perfectly normal behaviour...

Surely not! The leftie, woke BBC? And that paragon of impartiality that is LK?

 

[SkyBlueDom26]

Course you don’t agree with voter ID. It would guarantee a Tory government for the next 25 years
[/QUOTE]
Will be for the next 100 years hopefully

 

[SkyBlueDom26]

Course you don’t agree with voter ID. It would guarantee a Tory government for the next 25 years

Hopefully for the next 100 years

 

[shmmeee]

Hopefully for the next 100 years

Can’t you just hire a woman in leather like everyone else with a domination fetish and leave us out of your daddy kink?

 

[Deleted member 11652]

So you think preventing millions of people voting is democratic?

Of course you do. Why am I not surprised.

Tbf it’s impossible to get an ID card. They only give you one if you’re gonna vote Tory don’t they

 

[Deleted member 11652]

Can’t you just hire a woman in leather like everyone else with a domination fetish and leave us out of your daddy kink?

You and @Skybluefaz been on the nonce thread too much

 

[PVA]

Tbf it’s impossible to get an ID card. They only give you one if you’re gonna vote Tory don’t they

There were 6 cases of voter fraud in the last election. 6.

And if it's as easy to get ID as you're making out, why do you think it guarantees a Tory win?

 

[David O'Day]

Course you don’t agree with voter ID. It would guarantee a Tory government for the next 25 years

Will be for the next 100 years hopefully
[/QUOTE]

Well given your track record of predictions I'm feeling better about things

 

[Deleted member 11652]

There were 6 cases of voter fraud in the last election. 6.

And if it's as easy to get ID as you're making out, why do you think it guarantees a Tory win?

Well they only way they’ll lose is through fraud.

 

[Deleted member 11652]

Will be for the next 100 years hopefully

Well given your track record of predictions I'm feeling better about things
[/QUOTE]

Rangers were shite this year weren’t they? Muppet

 

[SkyBlueDom26]

Can’t you just hire a woman in leather like everyone else with a domination fetish and leave us out of your daddy kink?

Sums up how bizarre you are

 

[PVA]

Well they only way they’ll lose is through fraud.

Your argument makes zero sense.

If it's so open to fraud now why were there only 6 cases in the last election?
If it's so open to fraud now does that mean the Tories have been winning fraudulently?
If it's so easy to win fraudulently why haven't Labour, or any other party, tried it?
How does stopping millions of people voting, a lot of whom would likely vote Labour, make Labour more likely to win?

You're as clueless as your pal Dom.

 

[Deleted member 11652]

Your argument makes zero sense.

If it's so open to fraud now why were there only 6 cases in the last election?
If it's so open to fraud now does that mean the Tories have been winning fraudulently?
If it's so easy to win fraudulently why haven't Labour, or any other party, tried it?
How does stopping millions of people voting, a lot of whom would likely vote Labour, make Labour more likely to win?

You're as clueless as your pal Dom.

I’m not saying there has been fraud but voter id prevents it in the future and fraud is the only way the Tories will lose in your lifetime.

 

[clint van damme]

The silent Majority on the forum

Seen as your having a love in with its a batch do you agree with the original Traditional britain group he linked who want to deport all non whites?
And if 6oure bothered about the comments by beckett why didn't you speak up about that?

 

[PVA]

I’m not saying there has been fraud but voter id prevents it in the future and fraud is the only way the Tories will lose in your lifetime.

You think the Conservatives will win 15 odd elections in a row?

 

[shmmeee]

Well they only way they’ll lose is through fraud.

Pesky facts eh?

Tories Fined Over Election Campaign Expenses Scandal

'It undermines voters’ confidence in our democratic processes.'

www.huffingtonpost.co.uk

 

[clint van damme]

I’m not saying there has been fraud but voter id prevents it in the future and fraud is the only way the Tories will lose in your lifetime.

Let's set up a UK task force to prevent bear attacks, there haven't been any but if it prevents them in the future...........

 

[Deleted member 5849]

I still want to know if this means people are now all for a national ID card!

 

[Deleted member 11652]

Pesky facts eh?

Tories Fined Over Election Campaign Expenses Scandal

'It undermines voters’ confidence in our democratic processes.'

www.huffingtonpost.co.uk

 

[Deleted member 11652]

Let's set up a UK task force to prevent bear attacks, there haven't been any but if it prevents them in the future...........

You wouldn’t be saying that if someone in your family had been mauled by a bear. It’s nothing to joke about

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

I’m not saying there has been fraud but voter id prevents it in the future and fraud is the only way the Tories will lose in your lifetime.

Which would be fine if it wasn't going to cost billions to implement and reducing the likelihood of people bothering to vote. A democracy should be encouraging voting, not putting in measures to put people off.

Perhaps we should start legislation now to prevent people with jetpacks from travelling below a certain height so as to not be a danger to pedestrians, or to cause damage to properties? I know it's not a problem now but it prevents it in the future, however unlikely it is to happen at all.

 

[SkyBlueDom26]

You wouldn’t be saying that if someone in your family had been mauled by a bear. It’s nothing to joke about

Or mauled by a sloth

 

[fernandopartridge]

That’s shocking. Imagine the outrage on here if it was a Tory.

Why would you immediately think it racist? Bit of a self own there

 

[fernandopartridge]

All the SBT Tories coming out as woke SJWs this morning!

All coming out as recognising Patel by ethnicity first rather than as Home Secretary

 

[Deleted member 11652]

Or mauled by a sloth

We are lovers not fighters

 

[Ian1779]

I still want to know if this means people are now all for a national ID card!

Still waiting for Dom to report back from his Tory Facebook groups...

 

[Deleted member 11652]

Still waiting for Dom to report back from his Tory Facebook groups...

No one uses Facebook anymore how old are you?

 

[Deleted member 11652]

No one uses Facebook anymore how old are you?

@Ian1779 whats your msn name? Got my space?

 

[Ian1779]

No one uses Facebook anymore how old are you?

Surely you should be directing this to the Facebook user??