Coronavirus Thread (Off Topic, Politics) (213 Viewers)

[Nick]

The ones queuing outside A & E aren't likely to be there for routine appointments are they?

Hmm...I think I'll book my serious fall, stroke, heart attack, car accident for Tuesday... I haven't much on that day.

Yes because everything in a and e is that serious.

There are huge numbers who will just get discharged to go and see their gp or nothing at all.

 

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[fernandopartridge]

Here's a good one for that arsehole Stats Jamie:

 

[Nick]

People are acting like this is the first time healthcare workers have required vaccination and that’s just not true.

It seems like it is for a lot of them though?

 

[fernandopartridge]

You’ve said you don’t agree with forced vaccinations. So I assume you’re against the existing requirements for healthcare workers. So why are you only just up in arms about it now?

That’s what I don’t understand. Why weren’t you out screaming about the loss of freedom and slide to authoritarianism ten years ago? What makes the Covid vaccine special?

People are acting like this is the first time healthcare workers have required vaccination and that’s just not true.

There is a big difference in applying for a job knowing certain vaccine requirements and having them forced upon you whilst in employment. You know that.

 

[clint van damme]

I've told you many times my position , yet you keep asking for it , which is baffling

Not just my opinion either is it ? Nobody should lose their job because of vaccination status.. full stop.. end of discussion ..no more to say

I don't care what people had before they signed up for a job , this is something after , a different time a different situation being forced onto them

You might enjoy the idea of this happening to these people , but not me , never me

It's the practicalities of it for me. The NHS looks like it's in for a particularly tough winter, staffing is an issue. Don't sack staff based on their vacinnation status, especially as there was no issue with it two days ago.

 

[Evo1883]

It's the practicalities of it for me. The NHS looks like it's in for a particularly tough winter, staffing is an issue. Don't sack staff based on their vacinnation status, especially as there was no issue with it two days ago.

EXACTLY !!!!!

 

[clint van damme]

To be fair , my partners nephew was ran over last week and was in a serious condition .

He was in the road for 90 minutes before an ambulance came and took him to hospital .. when they got to the hospital there were 4 ambulances parked up

He tore his liver and spleen , fractured his leg , broke his ribs , and needed 20 stitches in his leg

Jesus, hope he's ok?

 

[Earlsdon_Skyblue1]

Here's a good one for that arsehole Stats Jamie:

Again, look at the differences by age.

The graph looks scary but all this 'you are 32 times less likely to end up in hospital' is just nonsense. Most 20 year olds know that.

 

[SBT]

Nice to see all the concern for nurses and NHS staff's working conditions after half this board was foaming at the idea of them getting a pay rise earlier this year.

 

[fernandopartridge]

Again, look at the differences by age.

The graph looks scary but all this 'you are 32 times less likely to end up in hospital' is just nonsense. Most 20 year olds know that.

Looks like your risk of hospitalisation even at 20 reduces by 80% or more, from an already low starting point

 

[Earlsdon_Skyblue1]

Looks like your risk of hospitalisation even at 20 reduces by 80% or more, from an already low starting point

Yes exactly.

The odds of someone that young being hospitalised unvaccinated goes from around 0.015% to 0.005% after two vaccines.

 

[duffer]

Thats a fair point. I was commenting purely on covid inpatients in England currently at around 6.5k and questioning whether/why hospitalisations should increase exponentially unless omicron swerves natural and vaccine immunity (something we still don’t know…if it does we really are in the shit)

Absolutely, and I think that's why there's genuine concern (as opposed to the Boris get-out-of-jail-free kind).

It looks like infections are going to rise exponentially, in fact if I had a fiver I fancy we might start running out of test kits sometime in January. Whether hospital admissions and deaths will follow is the great unknown.

The hope is that the variant is very much weaker, or that it doesn't break through the vaccination.

On the latter, the data doesn't look great, but on the former there might be hope. But it's going to have to be massively weaker given the number of likely infections.

I hope that people like Nick are right, and it turns out to be a complete false alarm and I end up being ritually humiliated on here. Who wouldn't want that.

But still, given the numbers and data I think it's absolutely right to err on the side of caution. A little inconvenience now might save an awful lot of pain later, imho.

 

[baldy]

Not really, I only really think of you when you make a fool of yourself on here which to be fair is a lot these days.

But it genuinely doesn’t bother me what you or anybody thinks about what I say on here…I’m entitled to say what I like - I don’t feel foolish at all young Mavis

 

[baldy]

Chris Whitty: "This is a really serious threat. How much of a threat? Several things we don't know, but the things we do know are bad."

Lockdown incoming

Sent from my SM-G780F using Tapatalk

Yep…most definitely - all because of a variant that’s killed one person,of which we don’t know the details ie were they elderly? Obese? Underlying health condition
It‘s blatantly never going to end

 

[duffer]

Yes because everything in a and e is that serious.

There are huge numbers who will just get discharged to go and see their gp or nothing at all.

Right, all of the links I've provided are subordinate to your crystal ball. There's no problem with ambulances queuing, people are just making this stuff up.

In your opinion, despite all of the evidence there's no issue anywhere other than A&E.

The reason you seem to suggest there are problems in A&E are because there are too many loafers who are blocking admissions in A&E, conveniently ignoring the fact that you won't get near a bed until you've gone through triage and then seen a doctor (if required).

It is a bit pointless debating this with you mate, because you just come up with unlikely scenario after unlikely scenario to fulfil your world view that it's all ok and it's a big fuss over nothing. I know you don't like the conspiracy theory label mate, but sometimes you don't half go on like you're one of them!

 

[CCFCSteve]

Absolutely, and I think that's why there's genuine concern (as opposed to the Boris get-out-of-jail-free kind).

It looks like infections are going to rise exponentially, in fact if I had a fiver I fancy we might start running out of test kits sometime in January. Whether hospital admissions and deaths will follow is the great unknown.

The hope is that the variant is very much weaker, or that it doesn't break through the vaccination.

On the latter, the data doesn't look great, but on the former there might be hope. But it's going to have to be massively weaker given the number of likely infections.

I hope that people like Nick are right, and it turns out to be a complete false alarm and I end up being ritually humiliated on here. Who wouldn't want that.

But still, given the numbers and data I think it's absolutely right to err on the side of caution. A little inconvenience now might save an awful lot of pain later, imho.

I agree. Current restrictions/measures are a minor inconvenience in the grand scheme of things and are no issue at all. Id also want everyone getting a booster or at least those over say 40 who’s vaccine immunity is waning.

I do agree with Nick on one point. I think some of the language being used by media and lead scientists inc *Whitty today, feels a little OTT until we have more data, in particularly on the severity of omicron and the impact of vaccines/boosters/natural immunity on minimising severe illness and hospitalisations. Basically he and others have inadvertently (totally unintentionally I appreciate) fucked hospitality on the sly.

The heavy messaging should be around boosters and pushing testing before mixing with others, especially elderly or high risk relatives. Even possibly suggesting for people seeing high risk relatives to consider isolating for period in advance, as well as testing. It’s then up to individuals to do with that what they wish

*for the record I like Whitty and he’s done this country a great service, however media and commentators need to remember he is focussed solely one aspect of this shitstorm. That’s why I hate having the media questions at the end of the briefing. They’re all trying to get a headline, encourage conflict between speakers etc etc. This just adds to the confusion

 

[Nick]

Right, all of the links I've provided are subordinate to your crystal ball. There's no problem with ambulances queuing, people are just making this stuff up.

In your opinion, despite all of the evidence there's no issue anywhere other than A&E.

The reason you seem to suggest there are problems in A&E are because there are too many loafers who are blocking admissions in A&E, conveniently ignoring the fact that you won't get near a bed until you've gone through triage and then seen a doctor (if required).

It is a bit pointless debating this with you mate, because you just come up with unlikely scenario after unlikely scenario to fulfil your world view that it's all ok and it's a big fuss over nothing. I know you don't like the conspiracy theory label mate, but sometimes you don't half go on like you're one of them!

Where have I said there's no issues with a and e and ambulances?

My point was that the majority of people in a and e are discharged without being admitted into hospital.

You filter out a huge chunk of people from even going to a and e and that would help getting people from ambulances through the doors.

I'm not too sure what you're reading. Never once said there's no issue. You were the one saying people only go to a and e for broken legs etc etc etc.

 

[baldy]

Londoners with cold symptoms more likely to have Covid, says expert

Professor behind symptom tracker app says Omicron variant causes headaches, sore throat and runny nose

www.theguardian.com

Soooo….a cold then? Pathetic

 

[chiefdave]

Wasn't totally paying attention as I was still working. Did Whitty say hospitalisations in London were up by a third already? If so that's slightly worrying as they were a few days ahead of the rest of the country for omicron spreading so we could easily see similar rises elsewhere.

 

[chiefdave]

Londoners with cold symptoms more likely to have Covid, says expert

Professor behind symptom tracker app says Omicron variant causes headaches, sore throat and runny nose

www.theguardian.com

Soooo….a cold then? Pathetic

You didn't read the article did you? It says hospitalisations are 23% lower than the Delta variant and 5% of cases are admitted to ICU, not that its just a cold. But with the number of cases we're seeing already it seems there's a decent chance the total number in hospital and ICU will increase.

 

[Kieranp96]

Can you link us to that data as everything we can find says that is bollocks

Sure give me a second.

 

[Kieranp96]

Then why are ambulances queuing for hours outside hospitals to admit people?

Ambulances queue outside A&Es as 999 calls pile up

Ambulance services in England are struggling to cope with huge numbers of calls, as crowded hospitals are unable to take patients and queues of ambulances waiting outside emergency departments have become an everyday occurrence. The Association of Ambulance Chief Executives has said that every...

www.bmj.com

Thousands of patients at risk of harm while ambulances queue outside hospitals

Ambulance trust leaders have expressed concern over handover delays following analysis of the latest data.

www.standard.co.uk

Was like this way before covid, i waited in ambulance for 13 hours when i was 14 .

 

[CCFCSteve]

Wasn't totally paying attention as I was still working. Did Whitty say hospitalisations in London were up by a third already? If so that's slightly worrying as they were a few days ahead of the rest of the country for omicron spreading so we could easily see similar rises elsewhere.

Think he made some comment like that but again all this needs context which we aren’t getting

Are patients unvaccinated ? - Sure I read recently that London has only 60% of population with any vaccination. God knows about booster !
What’s the turnaround time for patients - pretty sure I’ve seen that in SA patients are out in a third of the time of delta

On PHE stats london Covid inpatients over past few days (latest/today on right)

1,193, 1,185, 1,253, 1,360, 1,349, 1,372

Across England today’s total number actually went down to 6,368 (many of which aren’t in hospital for Covid but for other reasons and also have tested positive)

I’m not saying this won’t spike. Of course it will with amount of transmission but we need transparency around the data and more of it before panic stations

 

[shmmeee]

Youre sounding like the most authoritarian person on this site atm tbh , mate I've continously told you what I think ... the end

You’ve not though. You’ve gone on about vaccines being required to work in healthcare being the second coming of Hitler but not explained why this wasn’t a problem last week when there were requirements for other vaccinations.

Face it mate. It’s social media bollocks. You had no idea this was normal in healthcare settings and think this is some new thing because Twitter is up in arms when in reality it’s a fairly basic part of the contract.

What’s authoritarian is demanding we throw out health and safety at work regulations and accepted practices because Karen in pharmacy follows some shit Facebook pages. You want to force employers to keep dangerous staff and force patients and co workers to be exposed to increased risk. All while pretending to care about freedom. Your freedom to swing your fists ends where my face begins.

People are free to work in the many industries that do not work with vulnerable people if they can’t grow the fuck up and get over their aversion to needles.

End of.

 

[Kieranp96]

Can you link us to that data as everything we can find says that is bollocks

Work numbers out yourseld.

 

[Nick]

You’ve not though. You’ve gone on about vaccines being required to work in healthcare being the second coming of Hitler but not explained why this wasn’t a problem last week when there were requirements for other vaccinations.

Face it mate. It’s social media bollocks. You had no idea this was normal in healthcare settings and think this is some new thing because Twitter is up in arms when in reality it’s a fairly basic part of the contract.

What’s authoritarian is demanding we throw out health and safety at work regulations and accepted practices because Karen in pharmacy follows some shit Facebook pages. You want to force employers to keep dangerous staff and force patients and co workers to be exposed to increased risk. All while pretending to care about freedom. Your freedom to swing your fists ends where my face begins.

People are free to work in the many industries that do not work with vulnerable people if they can’t grow the fuck up and get over their aversion to needles.

End of.

Hasn't it also been shown that vaccinations haven't been required before like this?

Dangerous staff? Really? Is it back to somebody killing grannies if they haven't got a mask on?

 

[wingy]

Is it Google or Apple today requiring staff to get vaxed or employment might be a problem.
I believe I heard it's employer's driving vaccination over there too .

Edit ooh I meant Australia.

 

[Kieranp96]

Why cant i upload pdf here?

 

[David O'Day]

But it genuinely doesn’t bother me what you or anybody thinks about what I say on here…I’m entitled to say what I like - I don’t feel foolish at all young Mavis

I'm allowed to laugh as well so it's all good

 

[David O'Day]

You didn't read the article did you? It says hospitalisations are 23% lower than the Delta variant and 5% of cases are admitted to ICU, not that its just a cold. But with the number of cases we're seeing already it seems there's a decent chance the total number in hospital and ICU will increase.

It's be explained so many times to him but to use someone elses example if variant a infections 10 people and 1 end up in hospital and variant b infects 50 people and 2 end up in hospital then variant b while generally giving more mild symptoms will put more people in hospital because of it's larger spread,

 

[rexo87]

Unbelievable that people think no NHS staff is better than unvaxxed NHS staff. Think I'd probably take the chance of an unvaxxed surgeon over being left for days weeks or months waiting for one

Sent from my SM-G991B using Tapatalk

 

[Ian1779]

I've been told they're closing school from January. Also been told that if schools have at least a week, then will be no exams again due to the disrupted learning.

Do you mind if I ask where you’ve heard that? Literally heard no rumblings at all which you often pick up from people in the know.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

I've been told they're closing school from January. Also been told that if schools have at least a week, then will be no exams again due to the disrupted learning.

Have heard no such thing.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Unbelievable that people think no NHS staff is better than unvaxxed NHS staff. Think I'd probably take the chance of an unvaxxed surgeon over being left for days weeks or months waiting for one

Sent from my SM-G991B using Tapatalk

Corbyn’s point was a fair one, that if you’re working in a high risk industry and continue to believe nonsense on social media, then regularly test instead.

If people refuse even to test themselves before coming into hospital then clearly they don’t care much about transmission to patients.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

I'll tell you what happens at A&E at present...

You get a letter from your doctor, you go along but you're not let inside as there are too many people waiting already. Once you *are* let inside, you're not allowed to take anyone in with you, so even though you're at death's door, the best they can do is push you inside in the wheelchair, walk out, see the doors shut behind you and wonder if you'll ever see that person again...

Then you wait for hours to be seen, before eventually you are. Then you're admitted, and placed on a bed for yet more hours, waiting for a space on a ward. These spaces are under pressure because, of course, at this stage any infection from Covid could finish you off because you're so weak, and you don't want bellends pointing out you got Covid when in hospital, so its not *really* Covid that killed you. You then get your bed in a ward where they keep the windows open if at all possible (but of course the time of year is not great for that, so it's a payoff of freezing your patients, and giving adequate ventilation in criminally underfunded buildings) and give you a Covid test daily, because any infection spreading in the ward could finish off all who are there with you... and you don't want bellends pointing out you got Covid when in hospital, so its not *really* Covid that killed you. No visitors for that reason either, as they absolutely *need* to keep infection away from you.

Then you get rehabilitated as quickly as they can, and sent home as soon as they can because, even more so than usually, they *need* the beds for the next queue of people waiting for admission. Then again, it might be too soon really, but you haven't seen your family for a couple of weeks, and they haven't seen you, and they need to tell you that they love you. You've avoided being finished off by Covid too, by the measures put in place, but those measures restrict capacity too, of course... exacerbated by an underfunded system, that means there's no spare resource available for a crisis.