Climate change and activists (8 Viewers)

[Marty]

Surely the only long term solution is a vast reduction in the global population? Everything else is just papering over the cracks.

 

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[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

It helps though doesn't it. If I could go half the week by public transport, that'd be a start. Ditto about bikes, if there were some non lethal way to cycle it, it'd be cheaper and help my fitness levels too. A bit better planning would set us off in the right direction.

I'd love to travel by bike more, but I don't have a death wish so I'm not doing that.

 

[JAM See]

Why would they have to buy them? Midland Meat Packers used to bus people all around Rugby not that many years ago, they used a local coach firm to do it, no one is suggesting that they have to go nuclear and buy a coach and employ a driver.

When I started work in a car factory in 1983, works buses were a given.

Yes, it put about twenty minutes on your day, but it also saved money as we, a young couple with children could manage with one car.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

I'd love to travel by bike more, but I don't have a death wish so I'm not doing that.

A relative of mine does a round trip of 35 miles each day by bike to work and back. Nutter is one word I'd use!

And the irony of ironies? They work for Shell!

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

There’s no doubt we have to but the implications have to be considered

How many people would have no income if we had no car production?

Ultimately society will need to switch to producing electric vehicles that draw their energy from a sustainably powered grid. That doesn't mean an end to personal transport.

There won’t be any combustion engine cars by 2050

Nowhere near soon enough if we want to have a fighting chance-the data and empirical evidence are pretty damning on that.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Surely the only long term solution is a vast reduction in the global population? Everything else is just papering over the cracks.

Well the point at which there are just too many people on the planet will come but one would hope not in this century

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

I’m also not sure what being vegetarian will achieve

Apart from the methane etc. and the energy used in other areas of the production process like butchery, we could change land use from grazing or growing animal crops to other plants which could have a greater ability to store carbon. Of course some of that land would need to be used to make alternative crops to replace the meat eaten but would still be better.

 

[Grendel]

Apart from the methane etc. and the energy used in other areas of the production process like butchery, we could change land use from grazing or growing animal crops to other plants which could have a greater ability to store carbon. Of course some of that land would need to be used to make alternative crops to replace the meat eaten but would still be better.

my point is methane is from cows

 

[Marty]

Well the point at which there are just too many people on the planet will come but one would hope not in this century

Surely we're at that point already? if the planet can't sustain the level at what we're consuming and producing emissions then we've hit that point.

 

[Grendel]

When I started work in a car factory in 1983, works buses were a given.

Yes, it put about twenty minutes on your day, but it also saved money as we, a young couple with children could manage with one car.

Did they pick you up from your house?

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

Oh there are routes, it's just that they are all on different ones.

Why am I going to spend 3 hours extra per day travelling?

And all of the new "bike lane" shite that has been put in around Cov just causes even more issues and traffic because of how much narrower the roads are. So if you are behind a bus, everybody is behind a bus until it gets to where it's going.

I don't think anyone's disagreeing with that. It's that the systems and services need to be put in place or improved that enable the change. That's not happening. Even after a huge pandemic the desire was to just 'get back to normal', even for things which didn't need to go back to the way they were before.

 

[Nick]

Well with that attitude why bother doing anything difficult? Fossil fuels will run out at some point this century-what do we do then if we haven't found an alternative?

There's difficult and unviable.

I do plenty of difficult things as it is to get by, I don't need to be sat on public transport every day if I don't need to.

I'd happily drive a car that's better for the environment and cheaper for me to run, however they cost a lot of money so I can't justify it.

It's nowhere near as simple as sell your car and work from home.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Surely we're at that point already? if the planet can't sustain the level at what we're consuming and producing emissions then we've hit that point.

Well at the moment we aren't even close to adopting the most sustainable practices we can and our richest people are focusing more on getting into space than pumping in resources to help the planet they're already on.

The Sahara receives enough solar energy to meet the energy demands of Europe and Africa combined-but we collectively haven't put the time, thought or money into making that infrastructure a reality.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

There's difficult and unviable.

I do plenty of difficult things as it is to get by, I don't need to be sat on public transport every day if I don't need to.

I'd happily drive a car that's better for the environment and cheaper for me to run, however they cost a lot of money so I can't justify it.

It's nowhere near as simple as sell your car and work from home.

Which is why, as I've repeatedly said, it needs to be made easier for you to make those switches. Likewise I'm well aware a gas boiler is environmentally terrible but a heat pump is far too expensive and might still be even with the grant they're bringing in for them.

I accept what I've put is radical for individuals and for governments but the situation is so precarious we haven't got much time for being incremental.

 

[Nick]

Which is why, as I've repeatedly said, it needs to be made easier for you to make those switches. Likewise I'm well aware a gas boiler is environmentally terrible but a heat pump is far too expensive and might still be even with the grant they're bringing in for them.

I accept what I've put is radical for individuals and for governments but the situation is so precarious we haven't got much time for being incremental.

So whos going to pay? Everybody gets an electric car and new boiler, pay rise as well for good measure.

In a few years a new car will be viable for me, it isn't going to just turn up on my drive.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

So whos going to pay? Everybody gets an electric car and new boiler, pay rise as well for good measure.

In a few years a new car will be viable for me, it isn't going to just turn up on my drive.

How is anyone going to drive anywhere if we're still relying on petrol and diesel by the time they run out? It will cost the world a lot of money to act but it'll equally cost us a lot of money and life on top if we don't make substantial changes.

Some parts of the world fast becoming uninhabitable, wildfires every year, increasing competition for fewer resources etc. We don't have a great amount of time left to change that.

 

[shmmeee]

We teach how global warming and climate change work to teenagers and they get it easily enough.

Top 3 things an individual could do

Stop driving
Go veggie
Install a heat pump in place of a gas boiler

Top 3 things the government could do

Go for a nuclear/renewable energy mix
Commit with other nations to using solar beacons in the Sahara to meet the energy demands of two continents
Incentivise people to trade in their petrol or diesel cars for electric

Id add massive retrofit for houses too.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

So whos going to pay? Everybody gets an electric car and new boiler, pay rise as well for good measure.

In a few years a new car will be viable for me, it isn't going to just turn up on my drive.

Well if we could all use public transport more conveniently, we'd be saving a fair whack on fuel, tax, repairs etc to go towards that new car...

Look, I'm with you in terms of I bought a nice diesel as I was told it was the eco thing to do, intending to run it to obselescence - just I didn't expect its obsolescence to come as quickly as seems likely! Am I happy about that? Not really. Would I replace the car if there were incentives that made it affordable for me to do so? Yep. Would I use the bus and train more if there were more routes more often? Yep. Do I think the principle of encouraging us to use more public transport is right? Yep. Do I think I should personally make this happen? Nope.

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

So whos going to pay? Everybody gets an electric car and new boiler, pay rise as well for good measure.

In a few years a new car will be viable for me, it isn't going to just turn up on my drive.

Ultimately, everyone will pay.

See those houses burning yesterday? Few years time that could be any of our homes.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

How is anyone going to drive anywhere if we're still relying on petrol and diesel by the time they run out?

Synthetic fuels ?

 

[shmmeee]

So whos going to pay? Everybody gets an electric car and new boiler, pay rise as well for good measure.

In a few years a new car will be viable for me, it isn't going to just turn up on my drive.

We’re going to pay, probably with borrowing. And it’s a damn sight cheaper to do it now than at literally any point in the future.

 

[eastwoodsdustman]

CO2 Emissions per Capita

#	Country	CO2 Emissions per capita (tons)
1	China	7.38
2	United States	15.52
3	India	1.91
4	Russia	11.44

There's the problem.
We do more than most and produce 1% of the worlds emissions. Whatever we do as a country wont matter a jot if the above don't get their acts together.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Synthetic fuels ?

This I think started with the Fischer-Tropsch process that the Nazis pioneered in the absence of access to oil. I'm not convinced the techniques as is are entirely carbon neutral but if they become so, then of course we should use them.

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

There’s no doubt we have to but the implications have to be considered

How many people would have no income if we had no car production?

But how many more people would be employed manufacturing the alternative methods of transport? Same as those that work in oil/gas etc - how many people would be employed in solar/wind/hydroelectric instead?

 

[clint van damme]

The chuckle brothers had it right with their pedal car.

To me, to co2

 

[Nick]

Ultimately, everyone will pay.

See those houses burning yesterday? Few years time that could be any of our homes.

There will be houses burning every single day, sadly.

That sort of nonsense doesn't wash really

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

But how many more people would be employed manufacturing the alternative methods of transport? Same as those that work in oil/gas etc - how many people would be employed in solar/wind/hydroelectric instead?

Take how Coventry itself has had to reinvent its industries as things go in and out of fashion.

 

[Seaside-Skyblue]

We teach how global warming and climate change work to teenagers and they get it easily enough.

Top 3 things an individual could do

Stop driving
Go veggie
Install a heat pump in place of a gas boiler

Top 3 things the government could do

Go for a nuclear/renewable energy mix
Commit with other nations to using solar beacons in the Sahara to meet the energy demands of two continents
Incentivise people to trade in their petrol or diesel cars for electric

I'd be all up for getting an electric car and I'm sure many would, its just my perception I haven't actually looked but aren't they much more expensive? Also, although I am starting to see the odd charging point, they're extremely rare. Infrastructure needs to change quicker to get people on board quicker. I'm sure it's easy to understand but a lot of these teenagers may not work yet or have to travel for work in a car etc so I'd argue it's an easier transition for them while in that position. Not disagreeing with anything you say btw, just purely my initial thoughts.

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[Deleted member 5849]

CO2 Emissions per Capita

#	Country	CO2 Emissions per capita (tons)
1	China	7.38
2	United States	15.52
3	India	1.91
4	Russia	11.44

There's the problem.
We do more than most and produce 1% of the worlds emissions. Whatever we do as a country wont matter a jot if the above don't get their acts together.

I guess one argument is if we get a lead on technology, we're in a position to rake it in as and when those countries do decide to do something about it.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

There will be houses burning every single day, sadly.

That sort of nonsense doesn't wash really

Wildfires caused by dried up vegetation catching fire are a bit different to the average arsonist though, right?

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

Surely the only long term solution is a vast reduction in the global population? Everything else is just papering over the cracks.

Ultimately yes, but we've still got far too many people in the world beholden to ancient ideas and religion. "Go forth and multiply"

First things first, we need to stop seeing growth as the measure of success. 5bn people living good lives is better than 10bn where all but a few lead shit ones.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

I'd be all up for getting an electric car and I'm sure many would, its just my perception I haven't actually looked but aren't they much more expensive? Also, although I am starting to see the odd charging point, they're extremely rare. Infrastructure needs to change quicker to get people on board quicker. I'm sure it's easy to understand but a lot of these teenagers may not work yet or have to travel for work in a car etc so I'd argue it's an easier transition for them while in that position. Not disagreeing with anything you say btw, just purely my initial thoughts.

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At the moment yes, the cost is generally prohibitive and it's not made that practical if you want to drive more than to and from work every day. My point was those with the power and resources to do so need to make it easier for people to make that switch before we're forced to when the fuels run out and/or the climate goes properly tits up.

 

[clint van damme]

Surely the only long term solution is a vast reduction in the global population? Everything else is just papering over the cracks.

The thing is, much of the global population hardly create any CO2 or use any resources.

It's certain countries and big corporations who are the main culprits.
Its too late now, we're doomed!

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Its too late now, we're doomed!

Oi that's my line

 

[Seaside-Skyblue]

Surely the only long term solution is a vast reduction in the global population? Everything else is just papering over the cracks.

Thanos?

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