Grendel
Well-Known Member
I'm sure CJ and Gary Pendrey will escort you in.....
£10m shares claim for GODIVA (3 Viewers)
- Thread starter Sky Blue Kid
- Start date
I'm sure CJ and Gary Pendrey will escort you in.....
Sky Blue Kid
Well-Known Member
If it wasn't for ACL, CCFC would be out of business. £20m mortgage taken out because CCFC couldn't afford their share, so ACL rented the Ricoh to them untill such time as they could buy back in again. £15-16m still left to pay and SISU want to grind a Charity into the ground, get the Ricoh for peanuts and still make ACL pay off the mortgage. Some of you older supporters are condoning this disgusting piece of "Dirty Work"....I always thought we older ones had "Scruples"....obviously not!:jerkit:
MichaelCCFC
New Member
Torch and Grendel - thanks for the direct answers. There is absolutely no need for anyone to wear body armour or have a body guard and there really is absolutely no basis to say such a thing. I'm beginning to struggle a bit to understand your lines of argument and, most crucially, I really don't understand why so much effort goes in to making incorrect points about the Trust when the current crisis is about ACL and SISU and it is those two bodies that need to be more transparent and demonstrate they are seeking (as I said in yesterday's thread) a holistic solution rather than the somewhat simplified positions that often seem to be put forward.
dongonzalos
Well-Known Member
I think it is fair to say last season Torch you were in a minority were you not?
WillieStanley
New Member
Where's the meeting, Michael?
Although I don't fancy airing an opinion which seems against the Trust's grain on my own, I'm interested to see what goes on!
Although I don't fancy airing an opinion which seems against the Trust's grain on my own, I'm interested to see what goes on!
Can I just say I dont know what the trust really stands for but what puts me off is the constant appealing for members or snide remarks whenever something negative comes out of the club (whether that be the owners, rent or transfers) for a group that market themselves as a credible alternative and serious association it is very much like playground one up-manship. If they addressed this issue and could put forward a clear and concise plan of action, including aims and objectives, then I may start to take them seriously.
Mucca Mad Boys
Well-Known Member
Don't you find it ironic that the rent agreement could be a factor that could put us out of business?
Also, as you can tell you, and others are vehemently anti-SISU, I would've thought you'd want us to get a favourable rent to attract investors. Remember the billionaire, Alki David, who was ready to invest in CCFC, looked at finances and wished whoever took over, 'good look, you're going to need it!' He probably seen the rent agreement and thought fuck that! That's probably what other investors think, such contradictions that face a zealot like yourself.
They are not running a charity into the ground, but a fellow private corporation who are 'fleecing' the club.
dongonzalos
Well-Known Member
it is very much like playground one up-manship
Grendel or the trust
Sorry G-man couldn't resist
Grendel or the trust
Sorry G-man couldn't resist
Grendel
Well-Known Member
I was kind of joking Michael. In all honesty I have nothing against the sky blue trust and I am sure that the people who work in it do so with the best of intentions and with very little reward.
My post yesterday outlined my beliefs how it should operate and also outlined some confusion over its objectives.
However you can see the issue just on this thread. If you express any belief that the club is correct to pursue rent reduction or indeed offer any suggestion they are getting things right you are immediately attacked.
To try and engineer any regime change from a supporter angle is honestly pie in the sky so it's a case of working with what you have and attempting to achieve things through co-operation.
So I apologise if I sound negative towards you Jan etc. my grievance I guess is not to do with you but the curious mentality which exists that the owners will never do anything right.
If that trait is continued west get what we ask for and it almost certainly will not be what we wish for.
dongonzalos
Well-Known Member
Feck me, a thorough and rational explanation, not a sarcastic one liner. I take it all back!
Mucca Mad Boys
Well-Known Member
If I was ever to go to a Trust meeting, I probably wouldn't voice my opinions in fear of being 'attacked' (verbally) as me, you and Torch find ourselves on the defence any time we voice our opinions on SBT (forum).
I do get the impression that to some people on here, SISU cannot do anything right, I don't really like them, but because I defend them time to time, I get called a "SISU lover". I just think there have been worse owners around and in the club's history.
With all due respect to the Trust, people shouldn't have to come to a meeting to know what the Trust stands for, because I find myself busy most weekdays with work, or school-work etc. I want a fans' group that has total transparency and truly democratic, I am sceptical if the Trust is this.
I like the idea of a Fans' Trust, it is like a Trade Union for Workers', I would like to join a (CCFC) Fans' Trust one day, but I have to know that they speak for the majority of fans before doing so.
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torchomatic
Well-Known Member
Apologies, Michael. Body armour comment was a joke.
Again, nothing against Trust. Just a lack of understanding over the obvious conflicting views.
Again, nothing against Trust. Just a lack of understanding over the obvious conflicting views.
torchomatic
Well-Known Member
dongonzalos
Well-Known Member
Tbf SBT I think you are more of an attacking force than a defensive or counter attacking one!
Sky Blue Kid
Well-Known Member
Don't you find it ironic that the rent agreement could be a factor that could put us out of business?
Also, as you can tell you, and others are vehemently anti-SISU
To answer the first part......Why did SISU sign the agreement in the first place then?...before you start spouting rubbish...They did!
Secondly.....I'm as anti SISU as....... you, Torchy, and Grendel/kduffy(Mr Estimated facts on undisclosed transfer fees) are pro SISU. You have to be blind if you think for one second that they have CCFC at heart.....How much money can they grab is what they're all about. Simple as that!
Also, as you can tell you, and others are vehemently anti-SISU
To answer the first part......Why did SISU sign the agreement in the first place then?...before you start spouting rubbish...They did!
Secondly.....I'm as anti SISU as....... you, Torchy, and Grendel/kduffy(Mr Estimated facts on undisclosed transfer fees) are pro SISU. You have to be blind if you think for one second that they have CCFC at heart.....How much money can they grab is what they're all about. Simple as that!
Mucca Mad Boys
Well-Known Member
Tbf SBT I think you are more of an attacking force than a defensive or counter attacking one!
I'm always looking to be proactive as opposed to reactive.
Mucca Mad Boys
Well-Known Member
They didn't though, it was McGinnity's lot.
I'm pro CCFC you mean, when SISU do go, I won't stop supporting CCFC.
I've acknowledged SISU have profit as #1 but so does anyone looking to buy a football club? unless you're are a mega rich Arab or Russian in the Oil industry or a Royal Family, who is bored and hasn't got anything to do with their money!
Just a side note, I wonder how many people would complain if a member of the Qatari royal family brought CCFC and injected millions of Qatari Taxpayers' money into the club? I wouldn't in a sense, but I wonder if those who moan about ACL being represented by the council, therefore the taxpayers', would moan about it? Interesting to see if anyone sees where I'm coming from.
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MichaelCCFC
New Member
Grendel and Torch - posts much appreciated
WillieStanley - it's 7.30pm at The Squirrel (upstairs room) cv1 2gy (someone earlier, a troll I assume, said he'd heard that the pub had closed but that's a post that can be filed under utter bollocks). If you want my honest opinion about Trust meetings, some have been brilliant with a good attendance, loads of great discussion, ideas and energy. Others, not so much. For tomorrow I have no idea what the turnout will be - first week of january it might just be the 2 of us! But i'm hoping it will be good because John Beech is an expert and he may well be controversial but it should promote a good discussion and possible ideas of ways forward.
And that's me done for today.
WillieStanley - it's 7.30pm at The Squirrel (upstairs room) cv1 2gy (someone earlier, a troll I assume, said he'd heard that the pub had closed but that's a post that can be filed under utter bollocks). If you want my honest opinion about Trust meetings, some have been brilliant with a good attendance, loads of great discussion, ideas and energy. Others, not so much. For tomorrow I have no idea what the turnout will be - first week of january it might just be the 2 of us! But i'm hoping it will be good because John Beech is an expert and he may well be controversial but it should promote a good discussion and possible ideas of ways forward.
And that's me done for today.
Sky Blue Kid
Well-Known Member
@ MichealCCFC....
Could you ask AshbyJan to post on here where he got his information about SISU having the £10m to buy shares in the Stadium please. I'm sure it was the same place as me...the CET.
Could you ask AshbyJan to post on here where he got his information about SISU having the £10m to buy shares in the Stadium please. I'm sure it was the same place as me...the CET.
Sky Blues
Active Member
Taylor, re: your post #140 in this thread. According to Coventry City Council:
CNR = Coventry North Regeneration Limited, which is the development company set up by Coventry City Council (CCC) to construct the Ricoh Arena. CNR is wholly owned by Coventry North Holdings Limited, which is wholly owned by Coventry City Council.
CNR = Coventry North Regeneration Limited, which is the development company set up by Coventry City Council (CCC) to construct the Ricoh Arena. CNR is wholly owned by Coventry North Holdings Limited, which is wholly owned by Coventry City Council.
Mucca Mad Boys
Well-Known Member
@ MichealCCFC....
Could you ask AshbyJan to post on here where he got his information about SISU having the £10m to buy shares in the Stadium please. I'm sure it was the same place as me...the CET.
Btw, Hoffman is a director (or something like that) at both the CET and Daily Mail, so the CET is going to spout some BS to turn fans (like yourself) against SISU. Just saying.
Mucca Mad Boys
Well-Known Member
I'm aware of that, but because it is set up by the council, doesn't mean the taxpayers' will see any of the money, therefore, CCFC are not ripping off a charity nor the taxpayers of the city.
Sky Blues
Active Member
So, if ACL ever makes a profit and a percentage is returned to CCC, what would happen to that money? Would it not go towards council services, other council projects or supporting the council's balance sheet?
Mucca Mad Boys
Well-Known Member
I for one do not know. But neither do you.
If ACL makes profit, their shareholders will get paid dividends and they can do with it as they will. They are representatives from the CCC and AHC.
Sky Blues
Active Member
You're right, I don't. But then I wasn't the one who confidently asserted that the council would not exercise its entitlement to a super rent in the event of ACL making a profit of more than £3.75m.
The shareholders of ACL are CCC (through its ownership of CNR and NCH) and the Higgs Charity. Their representatives are just that - representatives of those organisations - not shareholders.
Nick
Administrator
Is it not the mirror group, who own the cet?
Bill Glazier
Active Member
This spat makes the People's Front of Judea versus the Judean People's Front look like a philosophical debate. Talk about divide and rule!
Astute
Well-Known Member
Why do most people seem to be in the category of either love or hate SISU?
They started off not too badly. Their money got wasted for the first few years as they didn't employ a manager that could do any good for us. It all went wrong when they decided to tighten the budget too quickly. Something needed doing but not as quickly as they decided to do things.
This season they have put the money into our playing squad that they should have put in the season before. They have also got us a decent manager. I now trust them much more with the football side of the club than a year ago.
Financially I don't trust them. They say they want to pay a fair rent. So why don't they pay what they see as a fair rent until things get sorted out? To me the investors have had enough of throwing money at us for running costs. They seem to not to want to pay any rent until we get promoted, and are gambling on it happening this season. As in Clarke being signed to take over from McG. No cost savings on the squad this season. Is this being paid for from not paying the rent?
I see some are still arguing over whether SISU could afford to buy ACL out. We are not owned by SISU. We are run by SISU. We are owned by shareholders in the fund which is run by SISU. Nobody has more than 9.9% of the share value in our club. So we are owned by at least 11 people. Investors in the riskier funds like ours don't risk everything they have. So they should have the funds between them to buy the ACL share and then finally the councils freehold. I say again this is not SISU who wants to buy the ground for themselves.
I would be happy for these shareholders to buy the leasehold, but only at a fair price. The Council and Higgs Trust helped our club when we needed them to after being shafted badly. Why should they make a loss on helping our club when we needed them to faceless shareholders we will never know about?
They started off not too badly. Their money got wasted for the first few years as they didn't employ a manager that could do any good for us. It all went wrong when they decided to tighten the budget too quickly. Something needed doing but not as quickly as they decided to do things.
This season they have put the money into our playing squad that they should have put in the season before. They have also got us a decent manager. I now trust them much more with the football side of the club than a year ago.
Financially I don't trust them. They say they want to pay a fair rent. So why don't they pay what they see as a fair rent until things get sorted out? To me the investors have had enough of throwing money at us for running costs. They seem to not to want to pay any rent until we get promoted, and are gambling on it happening this season. As in Clarke being signed to take over from McG. No cost savings on the squad this season. Is this being paid for from not paying the rent?
I see some are still arguing over whether SISU could afford to buy ACL out. We are not owned by SISU. We are run by SISU. We are owned by shareholders in the fund which is run by SISU. Nobody has more than 9.9% of the share value in our club. So we are owned by at least 11 people. Investors in the riskier funds like ours don't risk everything they have. So they should have the funds between them to buy the ACL share and then finally the councils freehold. I say again this is not SISU who wants to buy the ground for themselves.
I would be happy for these shareholders to buy the leasehold, but only at a fair price. The Council and Higgs Trust helped our club when we needed them to after being shafted badly. Why should they make a loss on helping our club when we needed them to faceless shareholders we will never know about?
oldskyblue58
CCFC Finance Director
just an opinion but I think what the result of these acrimonious negotiations will be that CCFC will not get any interest in the stadium any time soon and certainly not whilst SISU are here, (freehold or leasehold or shares in ACL).
If SISU fail in the plan i believe is going on - the prospect of CCFC owning an interest in some form in the stadium will be further away than ever.
As for the rent etc, if the club survives, then it will be very similar to the deal last offered by ACL. That is an improvement on what was but it wont go lower.
Who said what when and why wont matter ........... this issue will have caused more damage to CCFC than many realise.
just my opinion
If SISU fail in the plan i believe is going on - the prospect of CCFC owning an interest in some form in the stadium will be further away than ever.
As for the rent etc, if the club survives, then it will be very similar to the deal last offered by ACL. That is an improvement on what was but it wont go lower.
Who said what when and why wont matter ........... this issue will have caused more damage to CCFC than many realise.
just my opinion
Sky Blue Pete
Well-Known Member
Osb - how can sisu's actions reflect on ccfc?
Astute
Well-Known Member
Have you not heard the media comments about the non payment of rent?
Can you be sure that it will all end well for CCFC?
MichaelCCFC
New Member
@ MichealCCFC....
Could you ask AshbyJan to post on here where he got his information about SISU having the £10m to buy shares in the Stadium please. I'm sure it was the same place as me...the CET.
Sky Blue Kid, probably best if you just PM him
skybluesteve76
New Member
Nobody can talk on behalf of the fans unless the majority of the fans agree?
The SBT is just a lonely bitter crusade against SISU! ( with a shit megaphone)
The SBT is just a lonely bitter crusade against SISU! ( with a shit megaphone)
Sky Blue Pete
Well-Known Member
Not sure people can have it every way. Who is ccfc? Is it you and me?
