Coventry City FC's bid for half of Ricoh Arena firm rejected (5 Viewers)

[ajsccfc]

Wonder what the difference was in the 2 bids. To be fair we knew what would happen from the start didn't we?

This is what I was expecting yeah. I think it's just one of those things where it's shit to have it confirmed, like Sisu winning the bid under the guise of Otium.

 

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[Mary_Mungo_Midge]

Any idea why it was rejected?

That's not the real question, is it? Once Wasps exercised any control over the situation, it was always going to head one way. But, as I've asked above, why didn't SISU bid the 'first refusal' sum of £2.77m some time ago - long before Wasps were on the scene, and there were two offers to deliberate? Wilson money = Higgs share?!?

 

[RoboCCFC90]

That's not the real question, is it? Once Wasps exercised any control over the situation, it was always going to head one way. But, as I've asked above, why didn't SISU bid the 'first refusal' sum of £2.77m some time ago - long before Wasps were on the scene, and there were two offers to deliberate? Wilson money = Higgs share?!?

But that money was reinvested into the squad as all fans wanted, if it hadn't of been everyone would have had a big flap about it.


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[skybluetony176]

Why is wrong with ? "We need to move on and build our own ground and make sure sisu actually do it."

I agree with the first part. But after almost 2years of SISU stating that they've moved on and are building their own ground what have they done to either convince you that they have the appetite or the resorces to do so? Sorry but a pretty generic artist impression dont cut it for me. Ricky Gervais pointed out that when people say that Davinci invented the helecopter he didn't. Drawing a picture of something and saying that will work is inventing nothing. The same principle applies to what SISU have so far done.

 

[The Lurker]

That we never EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER will.

and that fault lies with sisu.... quite simple

 

[SkyBlue_Bear83]

and that fault lies with sisu.... quite simple

Partly.

If the council genuinely believed SISU should never own the Ricoh under any circumstances then why couldn't they hold onto it, SISU won't be here for ever, they could have held onto it until a suitable owner of the club came along.

 

[torchomatic]

Exactly. SISU won't be here forever. It seems that Wasps and their hedge fund will.

Partly.

If the council genuinely believed SISU should never own the Ricoh under any circumstances then why couldn't they hold onto it, SISU won't be here for ever, they could have held onto it until a suitable owner of the club came along.

 

[oldskyblue58]

I don't think SISU ever expected it to be accepted, maybe they have a real plan?

perhaps they do but I cant help thinking this has caught them completely off guard and the bid was so they could say "well we tried" knowing all the details wont be made public

not sure how they get out of this to be honest ....... build own ground and increase the debt from £46m ...... or try to work a partnership deal at the Ricoh for access to income, but I have not seen much evidence of a partnership ethos from our owners so far.......

So do they have a plan? .....................

 

[italiahorse]

I don't think 7 years ago the deal that Wasps got was ever on the table....

Maybe not, but I hazard a guess that the amount spent on legal fees plus lost revenues as a result of the Northampton move balance that out ?

 

[ecky]

Sisu tried to shaft the Higgs with court action, served them right...

What happens next wasps buy us from Sisu?

 

[jimmyhillsfanclub]

Sisu tried to shaft the Higgs with court action, served them right...

What happens next wasps buy us from Sisu?

Unlikely.....Wasps are skint & make a loss.....CCFC are worth approx. -£46m & continue to make a loss......

 

[italiahorse]

Yes I think so, they are the 2 options. 'Selling' would only mean transferring the debt to new owners but that must come at a cost to SISU and it may be that liquidation suits them more?

If CCFC is worth £5M and has debts of £50M then all they will get is £5M if they sell.
Hopefully Sisu are now finished and they will take the £5M.

 

[The Lurker]

Partly.

If the council genuinely believed SISU should never own the Ricoh under any circumstances then why couldn't they hold onto it, SISU won't be here for ever, they could have held onto it until a suitable owner of the club came along.

Oh fuck off, partly? you could at least say mostly. they had years to purchase the ricoh but they didnt. they used it as a weapon to shaft ACL and it didnt work.

if sisu in 2007 had purchased the ricoh then we wouldn't be here would we? instead they have ruined this club. attendances at an all time low. were in league 1 and could be heading for league 2. and you say they are partly to blame? i am amazed!

 

[letsallsingtogether]

As i've said time and time again, I think sisu are and have always been dreadful owners. I don't only see things in black and white like you.

It's funny that those who are the most anti-sisu were the ones shouting down anyone who dared to criticise Ranson.

So who was backing Random?
As for black and white you need to get out of your sickbed and look closely at our owners.
I have been to many meeting with sisu.
Every time they would complain NO ONE will speak to us?

They did not even try? Why.
Could go on all day with the bullshit we were feed at these meetings but hey you wouldn't believe it so just keep clutching them straws they may actually get it right one day.

 

[mattylad]

Oh fuck off, partly? you could at least say mostly. they had years to purchase the ricoh but they didnt. they used it as a weapon to shaft ACL and it didnt work.

if sisu in 2007 had purchased the ricoh then we wouldn't be here would we? instead they have ruined this club. attendances at an all time low. were in league 1 and could be heading for league 2. and you say they are partly to blame? i am amazed!

I think mopre accurately they tried to distress ACL believing that CCC wanted them to so that they could come to a deal however CCC suddenly had second thoughts and instead bailed ACL out. I am not saying they were right to think that but clearly something in the discussions led them down that path.

 

[Grendel]

Oh fuck off, partly? you could at least say mostly. they had years to purchase the ricoh but they didnt. they used it as a weapon to shaft ACL and it didnt work.

if sisu in 2007 had purchased the ricoh then we wouldn't be here would we? instead they have ruined this club. attendances at an all time low. were in league 1 and could be heading for league 2. and you say they are partly to blame? i am amazed!

The offer wasn't there in 2007 - the offer was for half at a formula price of some £7 million. Even if the council had prepared to sell it would have been £14 million. On top of that. &24 million for f and b revenues and also liability on the bank loan.

All that for a 45 year lease.

Bargain

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

One of the better responses of the day; I think.

My head is spinning with all this right now; so can anyone remind me - if the company in administration had the first option on this share, why didn't it exercise this option before Wasps came along?

If the answer is obvious, please forgive me; there's too many twists and turns for me to exactly recall them all.....

It never had first option on the share. On the right to bid, yes.

 

[duffer]

That's not the real question, is it? Once Wasps exercised any control over the situation, it was always going to head one way. But, as I've asked above, why didn't SISU bid the 'first refusal' sum of £2.77m some time ago - long before Wasps were on the scene, and there were two offers to deliberate? Wilson money = Higgs share?!?

I wouldn't want to speak for or defend SISU, but the truth is that there never was a 'first refusal' offer for ACL until Wasps came onto the scene.

When CCFC returned from Northampton all of the talk was about rebuilding trust, there was no talk about inviting offers from anyone for 100% of ACL (plus 250 years) for £5.4m and a million off the mortgage - that only came out once the deal was done.

Once the deal was done AEHC had to make the offer available to CCFC Ltd as a legal requirement, I don't think anyone here believes that there was ever any sincere intention to sell to SISU.

I've always stood up for the Higgs Trust here. I thought the one thing that was given, was that a charity shouldn't be penalised for helping CCFC out of a massive hole when the Ricoh was first built. However, imho, they've gone from supporting the club to doing exactly the opposite. I understand that they don't like SISU, who does, but selling the club down the road forever doesn't, to me at least, align with their previous long-term objective of supporting the club in the city.

As far as I'm concerned, NOPM is still in action - but now it's against Wasps (and indirectly I suppose, Higgs). The sooner Wasps fail the better, and if that means less for the Higgs Trust too, tough. They've made their choice, and they'll have to live with it.

 

[fernandopartridge]

I wouldn't want to speak for or defend SISU, but the truth is that there never was a 'first refusal' offer for ACL until Wasps came onto the scene.

When CCFC returned from Northampton all of the talk was about rebuilding trust, there was no talk about inviting offers from anyone for 100% of ACL (plus 250 years) for £5.4m and a million off the mortgage - that only came out once the deal was done.

Once the deal was done AEHC had to make the offer available to CCFC Ltd as a legal requirement, I don't think anyone here believes that there was ever any sincere intention to sell to SISU.

I've always stood up for the Higgs Trust here. I thought the one thing that was given, was that a charity shouldn't be penalised for helping CCFC out of a massive hole when the Ricoh was first built. However, imho, they've gone from supporting the club to doing exactly the opposite. I understand that they don't like SISU, who does, but selling the club down the road forever doesn't, to me at least, align with their previous long-term objective of supporting the club in the city.

As far as I'm concerned, NOPM is still in action - but now it's against Wasps (and indirectly I suppose, Higgs). The sooner Wasps fail the better, and if that means less for the Higgs Trust too, tough. They've made their choice, and they'll have to live with it.

Amen

 

[fernandopartridge]

I wouldn't want to speak for or defend SISU, but the truth is that there never was a 'first refusal' offer for ACL until Wasps came onto the scene.

When CCFC returned from Northampton all of the talk was about rebuilding trust, there was no talk about inviting offers from anyone for 100% of ACL (plus 250 years) for £5.4m and a million off the mortgage - that only came out once the deal was done.

Once the deal was done AEHC had to make the offer available to CCFC Ltd as a legal requirement, I don't think anyone here believes that there was ever any sincere intention to sell to SISU.

I've always stood up for the Higgs Trust here. I thought the one thing that was given, was that a charity shouldn't be penalised for helping CCFC out of a massive hole when the Ricoh was first built. However, imho, they've gone from supporting the club to doing exactly the opposite. I understand that they don't like SISU, who does, but selling the club down the road forever doesn't, to me at least, align with their previous long-term objective of supporting the club in the city.

As far as I'm concerned, NOPM is still in action - but now it's against Wasps (and indirectly I suppose, Higgs). The sooner Wasps fail the better, and if that means less for the Higgs Trust too, tough. They've made their choice, and they'll have to live with it.

Amen

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

I wouldn't want to speak for or defend SISU, but the truth is that there never was a 'first refusal' offer for ACL until Wasps came onto the scene.

When CCFC returned from Northampton all of the talk was about rebuilding trust, there was no talk about inviting offers from anyone for 100% of ACL (plus 250 years) for £5.4m and a million off the mortgage - that only came out once the deal was done.

Once the deal was done AEHC had to make the offer available to CCFC Ltd as a legal requirement, I don't think anyone here believes that there was ever any sincere intention to sell to SISU.

I've always stood up for the Higgs Trust here. I thought the one thing that was given, was that a charity shouldn't be penalised for helping CCFC out of a massive hole when the Ricoh was first built. However, imho, they've gone from supporting the club to doing exactly the opposite. I understand that they don't like SISU, who does, but selling the club down the road forever doesn't, to me at least, align with their previous long-term objective of supporting the club in the city.

As far as I'm concerned, NOPM is still in action - but now it's against Wasps (and indirectly I suppose, Higgs). The sooner Wasps fail the better, and if that means less for the Higgs Trust too, tough. They've made their choice, and they'll have to live with it.

We will see Wasps' true colours when the present ACL rent agreement with CCFC comes to an end and we are offered a punitive deal by them to make up for things like the Higgs bribe.

 

[mattylad]

I wouldn't want to speak for or defend SISU, but the truth is that there never was a 'first refusal' offer for ACL until Wasps came onto the scene.

When CCFC returned from Northampton all of the talk was about rebuilding trust, there was no talk about inviting offers from anyone for 100% of ACL (plus 250 years) for £5.4m and a million off the mortgage - that only came out once the deal was done.

Once the deal was done AEHC had to make the offer available to CCFC Ltd as a legal requirement, I don't think anyone here believes that there was ever any sincere intention to sell to SISU.

I've always stood up for the Higgs Trust here. I thought the one thing that was given, was that a charity shouldn't be penalised for helping CCFC out of a massive hole when the Ricoh was first built. However, imho, they've gone from supporting the club to doing exactly the opposite. I understand that they don't like SISU, who does, but selling the club down the road forever doesn't, to me at least, align with their previous long-term objective of supporting the club in the city.

As far as I'm concerned, NOPM is still in action - but now it's against Wasps (and indirectly I suppose, Higgs). The sooner Wasps fail the better, and if that means less for the Higgs Trust too, tough. They've made their choice, and they'll have to live with it.

The problem is I don'tthink wasps will fail, I think they will drag in crowds of over 10,000 on a fairly regular basis plus unlike CCFC they have access to all the revenue streams.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

The problem is I don'tthink wasps will fail, I think they will drag in crowds of over 10,000 on a fairly regular basis plus unlike CCFC they have access to all the revenue streams.

Well, 80% of them.

 

[duffer]

The problem is I don'tthink wasps will fail, I think they will drag in crowds of over 10,000 on a fairly regular basis plus unlike CCFC they have access to all the revenue streams.

You might well be right mate - there's not much evidence either way.

In fairness though, OSB did an analysis a while back that seemed to show that even if CCFC and ACL were merged in the way that Wasps and ACL are now set up, there might not be enough to keep it all going. And Wasps, as has been pointed out elsewhere, took a thumping great loss last year.

If ACL currently is just "washing its face" if you believe Ann Lucas* then this is a merger between two struggling businesses. On that basis alone I don't think success for Wasps is guaranteed, personally.

*If you believe Ann Lucas btw, I've got a bridge that you might be interested in buying.

 

[oldskyblue58]

Will Wasps fail? ............ from what I can see then there is no reason to be sure of that

Income levels - well yes Wasps will have access to all the income streams. In addition there is a premium to some of those income streams because it is a successful Premiership Rugby team as opposed to a struggling L1 football team (wasn't it mentioned somewhere that additional sponsorship had been attracted because of the Wasps Ricoh deal?). The non sporting side is well established and recognised. The comments that ACL is failing by some do not seem to be being bourne out. At Adams Park they received very little other than ticket sales apparently not the case at the Ricoh. The spend per head of a rugby crowd is significantly higher than a football crowd....... etc

Costs - Will Wasps pay any rent at all? that could be a saving. If crowds are not big then parts of the ground will be shut. There is no costs associated with segregation of fans. Policing and stewarding costs can be reduced to minimum health & safety levels. Are there many evening kickoffs if not then the costs of power for instance are reduced.Plus the rents to other stadium users contribute to the pitch maintenance In theory what they need to cover in terms of cost on the sporting side is probably reduced.

Losses - well yes they did show losses in recent years but that was before the takeover and before the above changes. Their biggest contribution to losses will be players & staff wages and that it would seem is controlled. So are losses guaranteed ? That's before adding in any profits from the non sporting side.

Value - well that has just increased hasn't it? They have a 250 year lease. There is a top complex hosting premiership & European rugby. the main sporting club is likely to become profitable and the non sporting side has been in all but the first year since it started.

The idea that it will fail seems to hinge on crowds being low - I would suggest that is not at all certain. In addition there is support for the cost of such a situation because of the access to non sporting incomes.

It is very galling to think that all that and more should have been CCFC's ..... place some blame on the ACL stakeholders as you want to or not, but the over riding reason why it is not is the fault of successive owners and directors of CCFC (in which ever company that the club sat or sits)

 

[stupot07]

Why does it signal that? Why is our position now significantly different to that Swansea City have flourished under at the Liberty Stadium?

Swansea are part owners of the stadium management company so get access to revenue. We are matchday on tenants with no/little access to revenue.


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[italiahorse]

The offer wasn't there in 2007 - the offer was for half at a formula price of some £7 million. Even if the council had prepared to sell it would have been £14 million. On top of that. &24 million for f and b revenues and also liability on the bank loan.

All that for a 45 year lease.

Bargain

Probably less than the legal fees and lost revenues ?

 

[italiahorse]

Swansea are part owners of the stadium management company so get access to revenue. We are matchday on tenants with no/little access to revenue.


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Don't they own 25% of the management company, pay little rent, and contribute £1M to maintenance?

 

[covmark]

So who was backing Random?
As for black and white you need to get out of your sickbed and look closely at our owners.
I have been to many meeting with sisu.
Every time they would complain NO ONE will speak to us?

They did not even try? Why.
Could go on all day with the bullshit we were feed at these meetings but hey you wouldn't believe it so just keep clutching them straws they may actually get it right one day.

What!! You've had meetings with Sisu? Why have you never mentioned it before?

 

[Chipfat]

Sisu have pretended to be this big London power house that will batter people, do what they want and really come to bully a little town into submission... Well TF, SW, JS and the rest of the fucking idiots you have sent our way, you have completely failed and are now licking the wounds like a injured hunter.. You played a game of poker with a shit hand and now like always will claim to be the victim, when the only real victim of this is the fans of the club..

You tried to screw everyone involved that could of helped you and supported you in your quest with no regard for a different outcome that the pig headed conclusion you came too... Wasps have proved by dealing in a professional manner and building bridges that a purchase was available and attainable, even if we don't agree on it.. I feel sad for the fans and more importantly the club's future, but like many i expect not shocked or surprised at the outcome today has brought. It's time for a change. It's time the fans had a say and had power to not only bring the club back but to control a percentage of future dealing's. As this last few years has proved what a dangerous premise is held by a owners with no regard for the game ,it's history or more importantly the community aspect of all clubs throughout the game...

I'm sure this is not the end of Sisu but i can't help the feeling that some of what Wasps are doing is being helped by some connected people that want to take the Football club away form Sisu's control..Could be wrong and i could be wishful thinking as i have no proof, but lets see what the next few weeks bring...

 

[stupot07]

Don't they own 25% of the management company, pay little rent, and contribute £1M to maintenance?

I believe they own 33%. I have no idea about the maintenance. Unless you have a linky.


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[Grendel]

I believe they own 33%. I have no idea about the maintenance. Unless you have a linky.


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It is 33% and the management company are responsible for maintenance

 

[letsallsingtogether]

What!! You've had meetings with Sisu? Why have you never mentioned it before?

TBF I wish I hadn't could have joined in with the blinkered view of the rest of you.
They don't give a shit defend them blame all others it is mostly to do with sisu.

 

[olderskyblue]

What!! You've had meetings with Sisu? Why have you never mentioned it before?

I think Nick wanted it kept quiet.......

 

[Nick]

I think Nick wanted it kept quiet.......

Christ, that was one meeting. I never said anything to anybody to keep it quiet that I remember.

What about the others that are in double figures