Coronavirus Thread (Off Topic, Politics) (12 Viewers)

clint van damme

Well-Known Member
Yes (as long as it’s not run out obviously !!!) I think one of the points being made yesterday was that PPE was potentially being changed per patient.

only picking up why was said, I don’t know the safety aspects (risks) etc

It should be changed per patient. 4 times on average.
 

CCFCSteve

Well-Known Member
I read about a doctor today whose department are reusing PPE on several occasions when on average each person treating a patient would need on average 4 sets of PPE to treat that patient during the duration of their stay (Think the article was in the FT).

Given that situation I have every faith in the staff of the NHS to utilise the equipment they have to the max and I don't believe they need advice or underhand insults from a cretin like Hancock.

Ive heard plenty of doctors and nurses saying they have got adequate PPE but as we know that doesn’t mean everyone across the 50k trusts, GP practices, care homes etc have
 

Astute

Well-Known Member
It’s funny you know, because alarm bells ring in my head over Starmer, not because of his ability at all or even his politics - but the fact that people like George Osbourne are clamouring to welcome him...
Went through this a couple of years ago on here. I was asked countless times who should lead Labour as I didn't see us having a chance against the Tories with Corbyn as leader. My choice was Starmer. Is he perfect? No. But can't think of anyone better in the Labour party.

We need to get away from the hard left if we want to see a Labour government. But the hard left will always disagree. Centre left.
 

clint van damme

Well-Known Member
Ive heard plenty of doctors and nurses saying they have got adequate PPE but as we know that doesn’t mean everyone across the 50k trusts, GP practices, care homes etc have

Just to clarify. I only read that stat this morning about 4 sets of PPE per patient but I will try and find article and link when I'm on my laptop next
 

Nick

Administrator
MPs defending this thing about getting 10k to work from home saying it needs to go on equipment. What equipment are they buying?

All it needs is a basic computer and the internet.
 

clint van damme

Well-Known Member
Corbyn really drove this guy over the edge to full nutcase territory.

What amazes me about Hodges is he massively used the antisemitism row as a stick to beat Corbyn but now Miliband is back in the cabinet and the antisemitic tropes are being used against him again him and his ilk haven't said a word.
It's almost like they don't actually care about it and were just using it for their own political agenda.
 

Astute

Well-Known Member
What amazes me about Hodges is he massively used the antisemitism row as a stick to beat Corbyn but now Miliband is back in the cabinet and the antisemitic tropes are being used against him again him and his ilk haven't said a word.
It's almost like they don't actually care about it and were just using it for their own political agenda.
It worked last time so why not......

It isn't politics these days. It isn't about policies. It is about who can come out with the most believable bullshit.
 

clint van damme

Well-Known Member
MPs defending this thing about getting 10k to work from home saying it needs to go on equipment. What equipment are they buying?

All it needs is a basic computer and the internet.

They already get a work from home allowance it's been raised by 10k.
It won't just be then they're buying equipment for it will be all their staff. I'd imagine it will all be audited
 

chiefdave

Well-Known Member
Just to be clear, I’m commenting on what was mentioned at the briefing not the science behind it (I’ve got no idea, like everyone else on here). Also I presume they are talking about changes between those patients already diagnosed with coronavirus. I’d imagine the whole units (docs, nurses etc) will only dealing with Coronavirus patients not mixing with non coronavirus patients
PPE isn't just used for coronavirus is it? What about things like MRSA? Can't imagine risking cross contamination is going to help things.

If Hancock is saying PPE has to be reused as we're short then he needs to actually admit we're short rather than making it sounds like NHS staff are being wasteful and not following normal procedures.
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
Right, I’m going to put this out there as an alternative view, awaiting to be abused but here it goes and please hear me out.....

Firstly, do I think Hancock is out of his depth, yes, most probably (for all his historical issues with the NHS Hunt would’ve no doubt been far better in these circumstances but that’s currently irrelevant)

Do I think his comment about misuse of PPE was as callous as it’s been made out to be, no. In actual fact it’s a valid point. In the briefing he was asking people to follow the PPE guidelines ie make sure you are wearing enough/adequate PPE but also not to overuse it

Now if there was an infinite supply (and no global pandemic) this would just be a ridiculous thing to say (what’s a few quid to protect a life etc etc). However as we know there is a potential shortage and this situation may well get worse nationally and globally before it gets better. as I think SBD and others have highlighted countries have also banned exports and we don’t currently make much of our own. It was mentioned yesterday 700m pieces of PPF had been distributed to NHS/social care etc since the start of the outbreak and one of the comments was that a doctor/nurse can apparently safely wear some of the same PPE for a session rather than change per patient (which will no doubt come with its own risks, take additional time etc). Let’s assume for example it’s three patients per session, over a month that could be a difference of hundreds of millions of pieces of PPE, some of which could be in short supply or difficult to replace in future.

Ive said before that for me PPE distribution (and supply line) and testing of NHS workers are the two genuine issues I would want/expect to be addressed asap and fully investigated once this nightmare is over. I’m sure the last thing health workers want to hear when they are risking their lives is ‘be careful not to overuse PPE’ but if by using PPE safely and sensibly, as per guidelines it means there is more to go around and in turn save their or colleagues life in future, it’s maybe not such an outrageous thing to say.

*Prepares tin hat but hopefully people get the point being made. As I say this isn’t about preparedness etc this is about what was discussed at the briefing

Spot on as ever
 

Ian1779

Well-Known Member
Went through this a couple of years ago on here. I was asked countless times who should lead Labour as I didn't see us having a chance against the Tories with Corbyn as leader. My choice was Starmer. Is he perfect? No. But can't think of anyone better in the Labour party.

We need to get away from the hard left if we want to see a Labour government. But the hard left will always disagree. Centre left.

As long as centre left means just that... not the covert right that it has been previously.
 

Ian1779

Well-Known Member
What amazes me about Hodges is he massively used the antisemitism row as a stick to beat Corbyn but now Miliband is back in the cabinet and the antisemitic tropes are being used against him again him and his ilk haven't said a word.
It's almost like they don't actually care about it and were just using it for their own political agenda.
Palestine
 

CCFCSteve

Well-Known Member
PPE isn't just used for coronavirus is it? What about things like MRSA? Can't imagine risking cross contamination is going to help things.

If Hancock is saying PPE has to be reused as we're short then he needs to actually admit we're short rather than making it sounds like NHS staff are being wasteful and not following normal procedures.

As I mentioned to to Tony, I’d imagine they were talking about changing between coronavirus patients only and they’d be in separate units
 

RegTheDonk

Well-Known Member
My girlfriend gets new PPE at the start of each shift, I’d presume and hope this is the same there.
I would think that would be the absolute minimum. Staff need to protect themselves of course, but also prevent cross infection. Every time they have to leave a Covid ward, weather to treat other patients or just go for a fag break, you would presume safe undressing into clynical waste bags to prevent exposure to others.

Clint mentioned 4 sets per patient. Is it you stay with one patient all day, and need 4 changes? Or do you have to deal with multiple patients and change each time? I think we need someone who's actually on the wards and knows exactly what the policies are before we can judge the shortfall.

I can forgive the government for any initial shortfall in supply. This has been, to be fair to them, an unprcedented few weeks with things going downhill rapidly. No excuse now though to not have plans in place and an understanding of supply and demand.
 

Sick Boy

Super Moderator
But they are arguing about fresh PPE after dealing with each patient. This would mean your girlfriend isn't getting anywhere near as much as she should.
She is on a midwife though and they test every new patient that comes onto the ward regardless if they have symptoms or not, I think she has only had to treat one actual positive patient and for that they had the plastic face masks...no idea what they are called.
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
She is on a midwife though and they test every new patient that comes onto the ward regardless if they have symptoms or not, I think she has only had to treat one actual positive patient and for that they had the plastic face masks...no idea what they are called.

Carers in care homes in the uk for example are changing every patient they see and are using 10 times more a day than normal
 

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