Coronavirus Thread (Off Topic, Politics) (4 Viewers)

[skybluetony176]

So much for the head start
UK coronavirus death toll 'could end up being highest in Europe'

 

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[Astute]

he made many,many mistakes.
George Galloway did a critique of his leadership on his radio show last week and he was spot on with many of his observations. I liked a lot of what he was trying to do but with hindsight, and it was obvious at the time to many but I didn't see it clearly myself, he was a poor leader. Still a decent man with decent ideas though in my opinion.

Which is what I said at the time and got slaughtered for. And still get slaughtered for now.

Sometimes I just can't get my head around it. I desperately want a Labour government. But I am not supposed to mention any problems I see. Even those who now like yourself acknowledge that he wasn't the best person to have as leader still constantly have a go at me for saying so.

 

[Astute]

If you are right about the decision being pre-Starmer - which isn’t clear from the article either way, he needs to come out as the leader and insist that this is submitted.

If not then it ‘appears’ that the unity line he said last week is actually not the case. Seeing as the ‘grown ups’ are back in charge, let’s see if they do the ‘grown up’ thing.

Which has been my exact point.

Maybe it would be better to look at it all again. Start anew. It will continue to cause damage to the Labour party until properly sorted out.

 

[clint van damme]

Which is what I said at the time and got slaughtered for. And still get slaughtered for now.

Sometimes I just can't get my head around it. I desperately want a Labour government. But I am not supposed to mention any problems I see. Even those who now like yourself acknowledge that he wasn't the best person to have as leader still constantly have a go at me for saying so.

I haven't had a go at you for saying so. The campaign was a shambles.
Like I said, and I might be wrong, I dont think he has acknowledged that.

 

[clint van damme]

So much for the head start
UK coronavirus death toll 'could end up being highest in Europe'

Saw that interview. Depressing stuff.
We definitely locked down too late. But as ever hindsight is a wonderful thing.

I just hope Johnson didn't ignore his medical team to go with advise given by Cummings because that would be unforgivable.

 

[fernandopartridge]

Saw that interview. Depressing stuff.
We definitely locked down too late. But as ever hindsight is a wonderful thing.

I just hope Johnson didn't ignore his medical team to go with advise given by Cummings because that would be unforgivable.

It isn't really hindsight, the evidence for foresight was all there. It was a deliberate act which they must pay for.

 

[shmmeee]

renationalisng railways does not cost billions, it doesn't cost anything if you do it as franchises expire. The government do it all the time.
It was the renationisation of utilities that would cost billions.

Personally I don’t think Mail and water are worth it right now, and we should’ve gone with the 2017 policy (maybe we did part of the problem was even Labour members didn’t know all our positions) of having community ran energy companies competing with the big six.

Once we started talking about forcing companies to sell below market value we sounded mental TBH.

 

[Astute]

I haven't had a go at you for saying so. The campaign was a shambles.
Like I said, and I might be wrong, I dont think he has acknowledged that.

He hasn't that I know of either. But would the rags have said so?

Didn't say yourself. I said those like you that have recognised since that he wasn't a good leader. Just look at how many people actually agree with me but try to word it differently.

We missed out on a massive chance of having a Labour government. The Tories were in disarray. And on top of that they elected Boris. And ideal Labour moment became a nightmare.

 

[clint van damme]

Personally I don’t think Mail and water are worth it right now, and we should’ve gone with the 2017 policy (maybe we did part of the problem was even Labour members didn’t know all our positions) of having community ran energy companies competing with the big six.

Once we started talking about forcing companies to sell below market value we sounded mental TBH.

I disagree on water. We should renationalise and get what is becoming an increasingly precious commodity under state ownership.
The water companies are constantly under performing and send fortunes out of the country in terms of dividends.

I agree about the mail and like your idea on community ran energy companies.
Don't think renationalising the energy companies was feasible.

 

[Ian1779]

He hasn't that I know of either. But would the rags have said so?

Didn't say yourself. I said those like you that have recognised since that he wasn't a good leader. Just look at how many people actually agree with me but try to word it differently.

We missed out on a massive chance of having a Labour government. The Tories were in disarray. And on top of that they elected Boris. And ideal Labour moment became a nightmare.

In 2017 I’d agree totally - and more galling is that fact that people in the party tried their hardest to undermine from within. The momentum and public feeling was there then. However the moment we turned away from not respecting the vote we were done for (I said this repeatedly at the time too) - we helped to kick the can down the road and it got solely pinned on us. (See the LD taking the brunt for the 2010-15 coalition)

They only had to get one thing right and it was enough for them. As a country we have gone around the world critiquing other countries for not adhering to democracy - and we didn’t even look inwards at ourselves. It could have been Johnson, Gove even bloody Rees-Mogg or Patel, they would still have won in 2019.

 

[Astute]

I disagree on water. We should renationalise and get what is becoming an increasingly precious commodity under state ownership.
The water companies are constantly under performing and send fortunes out of the country in terms of dividends.

I agree about the mail and like your idea on community ran energy companies.
Don't think renationalising the energy companies was feasible.

And this is where I personally differ to most again.

The energy markets would be cheap if done the right way. It isn't too difficult to become a distributor of power. Start this up. Undercut the other companies. Inform everyone that the profits go straight to good causes. You wouldn't have to buy out these companies. You just take their customers away. Those who can't make money would pull out of the market/go under. Their workforces would still have a job to go to as they would be needed. Those making money out of the UK would lose out.

 

[westcountry_skyblue]

If Labour get rid of momentum and sort out their anti Semitic problem they’ll get my vote next time!!

 

[Brylowes]

But if the masks work why do they wear full face visors? I get my temperature taken before I am allowed on site at work each shift. They wear the full visors.

I think the eyes can absorb the virus can’t they.

 

[Astute]

In 2017 I’d agree totally - and more galling is that fact that people in the party tried their hardest to undermine from within. The momentum and public feeling was there then. However the moment we turned away from not respecting the vote we were done for (I said this repeatedly at the time too) - we helped to kick the can down the road and it got solely pinned on us. (See the LD taking the brunt for the 2010-15 coalition)

They only had to get one thing right and it was enough for them. As a country we have gone around the world critiquing other countries for not adhering to democracy - and we didn’t even look inwards at ourselves. It could have been Johnson, Gove even bloody Rees-Mogg or Patel, they would still have won in 2019.

And sadly I have to agree.

The Brexit vote was massive for us. Our plans had always been to live in France after retirement. Suddenly our long term plan had gone. We ended up deciding it was best for the wife to move away with the kids. And now this bloody virus has made the situation much worse. My kids don't know when they will see their dad again.

But yes I fully understand and agree with your point on not going against the majority. Something else I constantly got slaughtered for.

Something else the Tories should always be remembered for. They used having a referendum as a bribe to the electorate when it looked they wouldn't win. Then they ran a fear campaign instead of stating all the proper reasons for staying in the EU. And politics have been pathetic ever since.

Have no policies? Not a problem. Just rip apart the policies from the other sides. Need a new leader? Elect a clown.

 

[Astute]

I think the eyes can absorb the virus can’t they.

If you touch something contaminated then touch your face without washing your hands you are at risk. Same if you are wearing gloves.

Or so they say......

 

[skybluetony176]

I disagree on water. We should renationalise and get what is becoming an increasingly precious commodity under state ownership.
The water companies are constantly under performing and send fortunes out of the country in terms of dividends.

I agree about the mail and like your idea on community ran energy companies.
Don't think renationalising the energy companies was feasible.

Just look at the controversy surrounding Thames Water, dividend payments and who actually paid for the investment in the Thames Tideway Scheme. The tax payer ultimately bore the brunt of the huge investment either as customers or through tax relief. The people who receive dividends from the profits of Thames Water ultimately invested nothing in a scheme that ultimately assists their dividends. Money for nothing, literally.
Don’t get me wrong, the scheme desperately needed doing but given the scheme is going to save Thames Water millions in annual fines for polluting the London river system you would think that dividends receivers should have contributed at least something to the cost. Even though it hasn’t paid external dividends for a few years it’s still paying internal dividends. As you also point out water is a valuable commodity and a fairly safe bet in the shares market if for no other reason than the government and therefore taxpayers will always invest in the infrastructure either directly or indirectly so even when the dividends aren’t being paid out the share price typically does well.

 

[Tommo1993]

Yeah gloves will transmit it just as easily, unless you change them for EVERY little thing you do.

Tesco made me laugh. Disinfect your trolley at the front door when you’ve already been pushing it around for 15 minutes. Yeah well done.

 

[Ian1779]

If Labour get rid of momentum and sort out their anti Semitic problem they’ll get my vote next time!!

They haven’t got a problem - they have a very small issue.

 

[Ring Of Steel]

Saw that interview. Depressing stuff.
We definitely locked down too late. But as ever hindsight is a wonderful thing.

I just hope Johnson didn't ignore his medical team to go with advise given by Cummings because that would be unforgivable.

for those interested, here’s a comparison between U.K. and a country that started with the same underfunded health system and paucity of facilities- the thread shows pretty clearly the differences

she’s dead right about the media- in the U.K. we have a lethal blend of second rate politicians and a piss poor media, that’s a dangerous combination

 

[Astute]

They haven’t got a problem - they have a very small issue.

It is an issue that is a massive problem. If it wasn't a problem and only a very small issue it wouldn't even be mentioned.

 

[Astute]

for those interested, here’s a comparison between U.K. and a country that started with the same underfunded health system and paucity of facilities- the thread shows pretty clearly the differences

And which country has the most visitors that could have brought the virus in?

 

[skybluetony176]

Saw that interview. Depressing stuff.
We definitely locked down too late. But as ever hindsight is a wonderful thing.

I just hope Johnson didn't ignore his medical team to go with advise given by Cummings because that would be unforgivable.

In my mind there’s little doubt they could have done something sooner. I’ll give you an example. My eldest daughter had symptoms the weekend before the lockdown (think it was just seasonal flu personally) Monday morning when I went to work the advice was she and she alone was to isolate for 7 days, by the time I left work at five we should all be isolating for 2 weeks. Why could that advice have not come Sunday night? How many people went to work Monday morning and then before they’d left to come home should have been self isolating for 2 weeks? Just no common sense has been displayed. You could argue that that advice should have come out a week or two earlier but personally I wouldn’t have been too hard on that but to let hundreds of thousands of potentially infected people to go to work on the Monday was just stupid. The reality didn’t change between 8am Monday morning and 4pm Monday afternoon. Common sense should have told them to make at least that call before people left the house on Monday morning.

 

[Ring Of Steel]

And which country has the most visitors that could have brought the virus in?

read the thread- Ireland banned all St Patrick’s Day celebrations at the same time U.K. was welcoming in 250,000+ for Cheltenham and holding major concerts across the country

and before the nationalists start frothing away- intention is to show what U.K. did differently and badly, not to somehow show Ireland is ‘better’, it’s not. Less stupid perhaps though.

 

[westcountry_skyblue]

They haven’t got a problem - they have a very small issue.

You see that’s my problem with hardcore labour voters,They just can’t see what us floating voters can.
It’s one of the reasons Corbyn and his front bench could never be elected.
The last election and labours new team are a god send for this country as we now have an electable looking opposition.

 

[David O'Day]

If Labour get rid of momentum and sort out their anti Semitic problem they’ll get my vote next time!!

Genuine question, as momentum are an independent group not run by the labour party how do they get rid out them?

Looking at the current shadow cabinet and the front benches apart from RLB there isn't really anyone who you can call momentum.

Sent from my SM-G975F using Tapatalk

 

[David O'Day]

Yeah gloves will transmit it just as easily, unless you change them for EVERY little thing you do.

Tesco made me laugh. Disinfect your trolley at the front door when you’ve already been pushing it around for 15 minutes. Yeah well done.

I did smile at that

Sent from my SM-G975F using Tapatalk

 

[Astute]

read the thread- Ireland banned all St Patrick’s Day celebrations at the same time U.K. was welcoming in 60,000+ for Cheltenham and holding major concerts across the country

I agree. But my point also stands. The more international visitors you have the more chance you have of it actually taking a hold.

 

[shmmeee]

I'd imagine the party lawyers can only recommend not submitting it. I doubt they could instruct the party leader or those concerned not to.
As far as I'm concerned we have a man at the helm who has refused to reveal his financial backers and who has suppressed an important report, red flags going up everywhere.

It’s not an important report.

I disagree on water. We should renationalise and get what is becoming an increasingly precious commodity under state ownership.
The water companies are constantly under performing and send fortunes out of the country in terms of dividends.

I agree about the mail and like your idea on community ran energy companies.
Don't think renationalising the energy companies was feasible.

I mean if starting from scratch obviously I’d have water nationalised, but I just think there’s bigger priorities for spending right now.

Yeah gloves will transmit it just as easily, unless you change them for EVERY little thing you do.

Tesco made me laugh. Disinfect your trolley at the front door when you’ve already been pushing it around for 15 minutes. Yeah well done.

Morrison’s were the same. 200m has into the queue they give you a wipe. Why?

 

[Ring Of Steel]

I agree. But my point also stands. The more international visitors you have the more chance you have of it actually taking a hold.

you have even more of a chance if you take action sooner instead of telling people to wash their hands. That’s the point she’s making- two countries with massively intertwined cultures and actually very similar- one locked down sooner, the other didn’t, the results are pretty stark.

and she’s also right about the media- U.K. wants to play it down and talk about Boris, that appears to be it. Looking from the outside in if you went from the main news outlets you wouldn’t even know how many were dying and all the problems that there are. It’s absolutely amazing to see what the focus of attention is over there.

 

[Astute]

You see that’s my problem with hardcore labour voters,They just can’t see what us floating voters can.
It’s one of the reasons Corbyn and his front bench could never be elected.
The last election and labours new team are a god send for this country as we now have an electable looking opposition.

Which was always the point I tried to make. If you only look from the inside everything looks fine. Look at it like an outsider and you get a different perspective.

And this is why I say nobody was worth my vote last time.

 

[Astute]

you have even more of a chance if you take action sooner instead of telling people to wash their hands. That’s the point she’s making- two countries with massively intertwined cultures and actually very similar- one locked down sooner, the other didn’t, the results are pretty stark.

and she’s also right about the media- U.K. wants to play it down and talk about Boris, that appears to be it. Looking from the outside in if you went from the main news outlets you wouldn’t even know how many were dying and all the problems that there are. It’s absolutely amazing to see what the focus of attention is over there.

Erm hello......

I said I agree with your point. So why try to force it upon me?

But I take it you still refuse to consider mine. The more international visitors you got from countries with the virus the more the chance of it spreading.

 

[Ian1779]

It is an issue that is a massive problem. If it wasn't a problem and only a very small issue it wouldn't even be mentioned.

I meant in context of size - yet it’s still important to deal with. There is still more cases of anti-semitism in the Conservative party (which is naturally more of a home for Jewish people)

 

[skybluetony176]

I agree. But my point also stands. The more international visitors you have the more chance you have of it actually taking a hold.

Not with the infection rate. When it’s in it’s in. Possibly would have only taken a handful of returning business people to start it in the U.K., at which point containment is needed and not cancelling things like ascot, concerts and delaying the closure of public places such as restaurants, bars and non essential shops was a failure. At least in part.

 

[Ring Of Steel]

Erm hello......

I said I agree with your point. So why try to force it upon me?

But I take it you still refuse to consider mine. The more international visitors you got from countries with the virus the more the chance of it spreading.

I’m not disagreeing with anything you said- Why are you always accusing someone of being mean to you? I don’t see anyone being a dick towards you?

 

[shmmeee]

Which was always the point I tried to make. If you only look from the inside everything looks fine. Look at it like an outsider and you get a different perspective.

And this is why I say nobody was worth my vote last time.

It never looked fine from the inside.