Coronavirus Thread (Off Topic, Politics) (33 Viewers)

[Astute]

for those interested, here’s a comparison between U.K. and a country that started with the same underfunded health system and paucity of facilities- the thread shows pretty clearly the differences

And which country has the most visitors that could have brought the virus in?

 

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[skybluetony176]

Saw that interview. Depressing stuff.
We definitely locked down too late. But as ever hindsight is a wonderful thing.

I just hope Johnson didn't ignore his medical team to go with advise given by Cummings because that would be unforgivable.

In my mind there’s little doubt they could have done something sooner. I’ll give you an example. My eldest daughter had symptoms the weekend before the lockdown (think it was just seasonal flu personally) Monday morning when I went to work the advice was she and she alone was to isolate for 7 days, by the time I left work at five we should all be isolating for 2 weeks. Why could that advice have not come Sunday night? How many people went to work Monday morning and then before they’d left to come home should have been self isolating for 2 weeks? Just no common sense has been displayed. You could argue that that advice should have come out a week or two earlier but personally I wouldn’t have been too hard on that but to let hundreds of thousands of potentially infected people to go to work on the Monday was just stupid. The reality didn’t change between 8am Monday morning and 4pm Monday afternoon. Common sense should have told them to make at least that call before people left the house on Monday morning.

 

[Ring Of Steel]

And which country has the most visitors that could have brought the virus in?

read the thread- Ireland banned all St Patrick’s Day celebrations at the same time U.K. was welcoming in 250,000+ for Cheltenham and holding major concerts across the country

and before the nationalists start frothing away- intention is to show what U.K. did differently and badly, not to somehow show Ireland is ‘better’, it’s not. Less stupid perhaps though.

 

[westcountry_skyblue]

They haven’t got a problem - they have a very small issue.

You see that’s my problem with hardcore labour voters,They just can’t see what us floating voters can.
It’s one of the reasons Corbyn and his front bench could never be elected.
The last election and labours new team are a god send for this country as we now have an electable looking opposition.

 

[David O'Day]

If Labour get rid of momentum and sort out their anti Semitic problem they’ll get my vote next time!!

Genuine question, as momentum are an independent group not run by the labour party how do they get rid out them?

Looking at the current shadow cabinet and the front benches apart from RLB there isn't really anyone who you can call momentum.

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[David O'Day]

Yeah gloves will transmit it just as easily, unless you change them for EVERY little thing you do.

Tesco made me laugh. Disinfect your trolley at the front door when you’ve already been pushing it around for 15 minutes. Yeah well done.

I did smile at that

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[Astute]

read the thread- Ireland banned all St Patrick’s Day celebrations at the same time U.K. was welcoming in 60,000+ for Cheltenham and holding major concerts across the country

I agree. But my point also stands. The more international visitors you have the more chance you have of it actually taking a hold.

 

[shmmeee]

I'd imagine the party lawyers can only recommend not submitting it. I doubt they could instruct the party leader or those concerned not to.
As far as I'm concerned we have a man at the helm who has refused to reveal his financial backers and who has suppressed an important report, red flags going up everywhere.

It’s not an important report.

I disagree on water. We should renationalise and get what is becoming an increasingly precious commodity under state ownership.
The water companies are constantly under performing and send fortunes out of the country in terms of dividends.

I agree about the mail and like your idea on community ran energy companies.
Don't think renationalising the energy companies was feasible.

I mean if starting from scratch obviously I’d have water nationalised, but I just think there’s bigger priorities for spending right now.

Yeah gloves will transmit it just as easily, unless you change them for EVERY little thing you do.

Tesco made me laugh. Disinfect your trolley at the front door when you’ve already been pushing it around for 15 minutes. Yeah well done.

Morrison’s were the same. 200m has into the queue they give you a wipe. Why?

 

[Ring Of Steel]

I agree. But my point also stands. The more international visitors you have the more chance you have of it actually taking a hold.

you have even more of a chance if you take action sooner instead of telling people to wash their hands. That’s the point she’s making- two countries with massively intertwined cultures and actually very similar- one locked down sooner, the other didn’t, the results are pretty stark.

and she’s also right about the media- U.K. wants to play it down and talk about Boris, that appears to be it. Looking from the outside in if you went from the main news outlets you wouldn’t even know how many were dying and all the problems that there are. It’s absolutely amazing to see what the focus of attention is over there.

 

[Astute]

You see that’s my problem with hardcore labour voters,They just can’t see what us floating voters can.
It’s one of the reasons Corbyn and his front bench could never be elected.
The last election and labours new team are a god send for this country as we now have an electable looking opposition.

Which was always the point I tried to make. If you only look from the inside everything looks fine. Look at it like an outsider and you get a different perspective.

And this is why I say nobody was worth my vote last time.

 

[Astute]

you have even more of a chance if you take action sooner instead of telling people to wash their hands. That’s the point she’s making- two countries with massively intertwined cultures and actually very similar- one locked down sooner, the other didn’t, the results are pretty stark.

and she’s also right about the media- U.K. wants to play it down and talk about Boris, that appears to be it. Looking from the outside in if you went from the main news outlets you wouldn’t even know how many were dying and all the problems that there are. It’s absolutely amazing to see what the focus of attention is over there.

Erm hello......

I said I agree with your point. So why try to force it upon me?

But I take it you still refuse to consider mine. The more international visitors you got from countries with the virus the more the chance of it spreading.

 

[Ian1779]

It is an issue that is a massive problem. If it wasn't a problem and only a very small issue it wouldn't even be mentioned.

I meant in context of size - yet it’s still important to deal with. There is still more cases of anti-semitism in the Conservative party (which is naturally more of a home for Jewish people)

 

[skybluetony176]

I agree. But my point also stands. The more international visitors you have the more chance you have of it actually taking a hold.

Not with the infection rate. When it’s in it’s in. Possibly would have only taken a handful of returning business people to start it in the U.K., at which point containment is needed and not cancelling things like ascot, concerts and delaying the closure of public places such as restaurants, bars and non essential shops was a failure. At least in part.

 

[Ring Of Steel]

Erm hello......

I said I agree with your point. So why try to force it upon me?

But I take it you still refuse to consider mine. The more international visitors you got from countries with the virus the more the chance of it spreading.

I’m not disagreeing with anything you said- Why are you always accusing someone of being mean to you? I don’t see anyone being a dick towards you?

 

[shmmeee]

Which was always the point I tried to make. If you only look from the inside everything looks fine. Look at it like an outsider and you get a different perspective.

And this is why I say nobody was worth my vote last time.

It never looked fine from the inside.

 

[skyblueinBaku]

It’s not an important report.


I mean if starting from scratch obviously I’d have water nationalised, but I just think there’s bigger priorities for spending right now.



Morrison’s were the same. 200m has into the queue they give you a wipe. Why?

I treat the trolly handle at my local Tesco with sanitiser before I touch it. Then treat it again with the Tesco provided stuff at the entrance to the shop.

 

[skybluetony176]

You see that’s my problem with hardcore labour voters,They just can’t see what us floating voters can.
It’s one of the reasons Corbyn and his front bench could never be elected.
The last election and labours new team are a god send for this country as we now have an electable looking opposition.

Serious question. Does the more radical factions and elements of the Tory Party put you of voting Tory in the same way? How about the language of the leader?

 

[clint van damme]

Yeah gloves will transmit it just as easily, unless you change them for EVERY little thing you do.

Tesco made me laugh. Disinfect your trolley at the front door when you’ve already been pushing it around for 15 minutes. Yeah well done.

Are you still working Tommo?

 

[Ring Of Steel]

But at least Boris is able to read Tintin comics, we’re saved

Coronavirus: National coronavirus testing centre only conducting 1,500 tests a day

 

[Astute]

I meant in context of size - yet it’s still important to deal with. There is still more cases of anti-semitism in the Conservative party (which is naturally more of a home for Jewish people)

So why do Jewish people see it as a much bigger problem with Labour than the Tories?

 

[RegTheDonk]

You said this crisis would be worse under Labour... with no discernible or credible evidence to back up that view. I’m calling it out because it’s a) pure whataboutery b) deflection and c) total bullshit.

It is a global emergency, and yes it has hit some countries very badly. But we had the jump on this, we had time to get our shit together. Herd Immunity is an ideology that sits perfectly in the Tory attitudes of fuck the poor.

The Tories own this... every single failure to prepare adequately sits solely with them and no-one else.

I don't think the crisis would be worse under Labour, but I don't see how it would have been any better. If this was predictable who can honestly say what steps they would have taken months ago at the last election. Yes, they might have pledged a shit load more dosh into the NHS ... but would it have paid for Captain Hindsight stockpiling for the current crisis, or just more staff and better wages?

Whoever was in charge it it still wouldn't have stopped what happened in China and I doubt very much Labour would have done much different to stop it making its way over here. Would they have locked down the airports and the sea ports?

As for herd immunity, they would probabaly have listened to the same experts getting it wrong. Would Jezza go against them?

Think we need to all stop the policitial what if's and concentrate on a way forward.

 

[clint van damme]

It’s not an important report.


I mean if starting from scratch obviously I’d have water nationalised, but I just think there’s bigger priorities for spending right now.



Morrison’s were the same. 200m has into the queue they give you a wipe. Why?

And this sort of proves the point on nationalisation policy.
Even those of us broadly behind it disagree with which sectors to target with the exception of rail which seemed to have a lot of support even among Tory voters.
It should have been a simple the railways are costing the tax payer this much we're going to renationalised and save that money message.
It was too broad.

 

[clint van damme]

You see that’s my problem with hardcore labour voters,They just can’t see what us floating voters can.
It’s one of the reasons Corbyn and his front bench could never be elected.
The last election and labours new team are a god send for this country as we now have an electable looking opposition.

But the new shadow cabinet has Rachael Reeves in yet suddenly no.one gives a fu k about antisemitism.
Why us that?

 

[Astute]

I’m not disagreeing with anything you said- Why are you always accusing someone of being mean to you? I don’t see anyone being a dick towards you?

I said I agree twice. But you kept reiterating your point. I agreed the first time. I agreed the second time. I can't do much more than agree.

But you don't seem to want to acknowledge the point of the mire people that enter with the virus the worse it would be. To me we kept our borders open too long. We were very late closing them.

 

[Astute]

And this sort of proves the point on nationalisation policy.
Even those of us broadly behind it disagree with which sectors to target with the exception of rail which seemed to have a lot of support even among Tory voters.
It should have been a simple the railways are costing the tax payer this much we're going to renationalised and save that money message.
It was too broad.

Or say out loud each time a franchise came to an end for whatever reason it would not be renewed. Nice, clear and precise. No chance of it being twisted by anyone.

 

[skybluetony176]

read the thread- Ireland banned all St Patrick’s Day celebrations at the same time U.K. was welcoming in 250,000+ for Cheltenham and holding major concerts across the country

and before the nationalists start frothing away- intention is to show what U.K. did differently and badly, not to somehow show Ireland is ‘better’, it’s not. Less stupid perhaps though.

Ireland has also just extended its Coronavirus lockdown into May. Let’s remember that this is a country in political limbo at the moment still waiting to form a government following its own GE showing more leadership than a government that won by a landslide some months earlier. That on its own just doesn’t add up.

 

[Astute]

But the new shadow cabinet has Rachael Reeves in yet suddenly no.one gives a fu k about antisemitism.
Why us that?

Never heard of her before. Maybe that is a reason.

 

[clint van damme]

So why do Jewish people see it as a much bigger problem with Labour than the Tories?

Because it's been weaponised.
And I don't agree that Jewish people do.
Some parts of the Jewish community do for sure. But the Jewish community isn't one entity with one opinion.
Johnson cosied up to the biggest antisemite leader in Europe, who incidentally has just gone full facist, and no one gave a fuck.

 

[Ian1779]

So why do Jewish people see it as a much bigger problem with Labour than the Tories?

Palestine

 

[David O'Day]

Because it's been weaponised.
And I don't agree that Jewish people do.
Some parts of the Jewish community do for sure. But the Jewish community isn't one entity with one opinion.
Johnson cosied up to the biggest antisemite leader in Europe, who incidentally has just gone full facist, and no one gave a fuck.

There are many jewish people who still support labour.

I also find it antisemitic to see the Jewish community as 1 entity who always think the same thing.

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[clint van damme]

Palestine

Don't get me wrong. There is an issue with some people on the left.
I've often heard people make a legitimate criticism of Israel and follow it up with a trope or some global conspiracy bollocks

 

[Ian1779]

There are many jewish people who still support labour.

I also find it antisemitic to see the Jewish community as 1 entity who always think the same thing.

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Yes you are right - but you had people from Jewish groups speaking out like they did. They wouldn’t even listen to people of their own community....

 

[David O'Day]

Yes you are right - but you had people from Jewish groups speaking out like they did. They wouldn’t even listen to people of their own community....

I saw an interview with a jewish author who was calling the jewish Corbyn supporter a self hating jew on tv.

That is antisemitic

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[clint van damme]

Never heard of her before. Maybe that is a reason.

Point proven
If shed been in Corbyns cabinet you'd have heard about her praising Nancy Astor (rabid anti Semite) in a speech.

Absolutely no two ways about it.

 

[clint van damme]

I saw an interview with a jewish author who was calling the jewish Corbyn supporter a self hating jew on tv.

That is antisemitic

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The antisemitism aimed Jewish Corbyn supporters is incredible.
Same happens in the States with Jews who criticise Israel. Michael Rosen has has some horrific abuse.