Coronavirus Thread (Off Topic, Politics) (4 Viewers)

[clint van damme]

Not the fault of Starmer that someone copies what he says.

It seems to me that he won't be able to win over many who only want a leftie in charge. Seems some would prefer another Tory government than to back Starmer. Yet when you ask them who would they prefer to Starmer they don't have an answer.

he needs to distance himself from Blair or he'll never win over "many who only want a leftie in charge".
He has to unite the factions within the party, he won't do it, no one will do it, if they're seen as been too close to either group.

Not only that but if he's considered too close to Blair he'll also be considered too pro Europe and that won't help him at all.

 

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[Deleted member 5849]

Not only that but if he's considered too close to Blair he'll also be considered too pro Europe and that won't help him at all.

tbh, we really have no idea how that'll be playing out in four years' time.

On the timescale as originally set, it might even have been to his advantage to be pro Europe. As we are now... who knows!

 

[fernandopartridge]

he needs to distance himself from Blair or he'll never win over "many who only want a leftie in charge".
He has to unite the factions within the party, he won't do it, no one will do it, if they're seen as been too close to either group.

Not only that but if he's considered too close to Blair he'll also be considered too pro Europe and that won't help him at all.

The factions is a myth. There aren't factions, there is a Labour Party the left of which extensively campaigned for a labour gov whilst the right did the opposite, all down to ideology. The only faction is these arseholes.

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

I did Latin and Greek at school, in the intervening 25 yrs I've yet to find any practical use for what I learned- let alone thinking it might qualify me to become Prime Minister. As for doing it university, thats not intelligence, thats rote learning loads of things that you will never, ever have any real use for.

Actually I still remember bits now- puella est territus per lupus- the girl was shit scared of a wolf

Latin is useful for things like law and parliament. But they only use it due to a. a bit of tradition and b. puts 'normal' people off trying to elbow their way into a system they like having control of.

Of course the simple way to ensure people understand (and arguably thus respect) the law is to write it in the language(s) the country mainly uses rather than archaic ones.

 

[Astute]

Take the best of Blair together with the best of a more 'traditional' Labour ethos, and you'd have a winner.

Spot on.

Too many people are worried what would happen if a left wing government got voted in. It isn't left wing Labour but just left wing.

Personally I am usually safer the more right wing we are. But I don't want right wing. And millions of people fall into this category. We need those who are central or slightly right leaning to feel safe. Give them any reason to worry and their vote is lost.

I have never voted Tory and never will. But I understand why many do.it is these floating voters we need to appeal to.

 

[fernandopartridge]

Can now do up to 35k tests a day if needed

Yet another quote attributed to a 'Downing Street Spokesman' - who is it? Who is accountable for this?

 

[clint van damme]

tbh, we really have no idea how that'll be playing out in four years' time.

On the timescale as originally set, it might even have been to his advantage to be pro Europe. As we are now... who knows!

I really don't see how an association with Blair can help him.
The name has too much baggage. Look how Johnson distanced himself from Thatcher when he thought it was prudent to do so, subtly so he could always go back, but for now distanced himself all the same.

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

Can now do up to 35k tests a day if needed

Shouldn't require the 'if needed' - of course they're bloody needed!

Still way less than halfway towards their target but they have got a couple of weeks left to reach it.

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

Wasn’t this just a speculative story in the express as they tried to promote the he’s more intelligent than Rory Stewart line? I remember reading something about it during the leadership contest and I’m sure it’s just speculative based on his colourful ancestry. I think English, French (to Eaton level) plus a Flemish dialect of French as he briefly lived there is the length of it.

Doesn't Rory Stewart speak loads of languages?

 

[clint van damme]

The factions is a myth. There aren't factions, there is a Labour Party the left of which extensively campaigned for a labour gov whilst the right did the opposite, all down to ideology. The only faction is these arseholes.

the problem is the right of the party aren't going anywhere. I said it before, but I have to question why anyone who thinks Miliband or Burnham are too left wing just doesn't join the Tories.

But Labour won't win an election with all this infighting going on, the Tories can do it, but Labour can't. Maybe that's the whole idea.

 

[Ian1779]

the problem is the right of the party aren't going anywhere. I said it before, but I have to question why anyone who thinks Miliband or Burnham are too left wing just doesn't join the Tories.

But Labour won't win an election with all this infighting going on, the Tories can do it, but Labour can't. Maybe that's the whole idea.

Tory plants...

 

[Astute]

he needs to distance himself from Blair or he'll never win over "many who only want a leftie in charge".
He has to unite the factions within the party, he won't do it, no one will do it, if they're seen as been too close to either group.

Not only that but if he's considered too close to Blair he'll also be considered too pro Europe and that won't help him at all.

That is why his job is so difficult. People having a go at him from all directions yet they have no evidence of him doing any wrong. Should he spend all his time and energy trying to sort out the problems in the Labour party or should he be able to spend his time and energy going on the attack against the Tories?

It is starting to look as though he is in a no win situation. And there is nobody capable behind him ready to take over. So people either get behind him or we are going to have the Tories.... and maybe Boris in charge for a long time again.

 

[David O'Day]

Can now do up to 35k tests a day if needed

So it's not even a capacity issue it's just a competency issue.

Not a good look

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[skybluetony176]

I can’t recall, I thought it’s pretty common knowledge that he had a decent grasp of a few different languages.

I’ll see if I can find the article about the Express article. Sure it was just speculative based on his great great great great grandad was Russian, another was Turkish etc etc. Seem to remember if you read the headline it gave the impression he talks loads of different languages but in reality it was talking about his heritage. It was at the same time Rory Stewart was getting column inches about being multilingual and how intelligent he is.

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

the problem is the right of the party aren't going anywhere. I said it before, but I have to question why anyone who thinks Miliband or Burnham are too left wing just doesn't join the Tories.

But Labour won't win an election with all this infighting going on, the Tories can do it, but Labour can't. Maybe that's the whole idea.

Yep, it's a big problem and it's not going away. Neither with give leeway to the other to fight the bigger 'enemy'.

They seem so diametrically opposed the two should split, but they can't do that as it will just guarantee Tory govt virtually in perpetuity. We've already got left vote split between other parties like Green, Lib Dem (although they also take as many votes from the right) as well as things like SNP/PC so to add even more division in would be a disaster.

 

[SkyBlueDom26]

870 deaths today

 

[Ian1779]

870 deaths today

Maybe it’s the Bank Holiday info coming through... let’s hope the trend over the week will settle off.

 

[chiefdave]

Can now do up to 35k tests a day if needed

Meaningless when those on the frontline are saying they can't get access to testing. Will be interesting to see how many tests are being done compared to the claimed capacity. As we're still short on the number of tests a day needed should be at or near 100% usage of capacity.

 

[David O'Day]

Maybe it’s the Bank Holiday info coming through... let’s hope the trend over the week will settle off.

Why that is band on trend for where they seem to think we are.

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[chiefdave]

It saddens me to say that I don’t think he can deliver. He sounds like a mouthpiece for Blair.

Not the fault of Starmer that someone copies what he says.

There's a theory doing the rounds, although doesn't seem to be much in the way of evidence to back it up, that the reason Starmer is so reluctant to say who is backing him is down to their links to Blair. More than likley rubbish but when that mindset exists it would probably be a good idea if he distanced himself from Blair.

Starmer needs to get on top of this report - kick a bunch of people out of the party and show proper leadership. If he does it then he will get the support of the left IMO.

Think this has made him look weak. Nobody suspended while an investigation is carried out and he seems as concerned about the source of the leak as its contents.

That is why his job is so difficult. People having a go at him from all directions yet they have no evidence of him doing any wrong. Should he spend all his time and energy trying to sort out the problems in the Labour party or should he be able to spend his time and energy going on the attack against the Tories?

Was anybody on the Labour members call last night? Looking on social media it seems he said something about not being critical of the government which, when their making such a mess of the current situation, seems an odd stance to take. Would like to know exactly what he said though if anyone had access to it. Could very well be something that's been taken out of context.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

I really don't see how an association with Blair can help him.
The name has too much baggage. Look how Johnson distanced himself from Thatcher when he thought it was prudent to do so, subtly so he could always go back, but for now distanced himself all the same.

It was more the Europe bit I was arguing about.

Blair? Arguably most toxic among Labour voters(!) Question is, which outweighs what...

 

[Ring Of Steel]

Total Cases are down though which is a good sign

testing?

 

[bezzer]

Tell that to the people that struggle to fundraise enough to keep them afloat (pun unintended). Wouldn't stop them getting extra donations in as well. You make them part of the emergency infrastructure so people don't question it. Fire, police, ambulances etc also see drastic funding cuts during austerity but should they become charity funded instead? Or is it just for years of having them there we've come to expect them to be paid for.

Have you not noticed the cuts to Police Numbers, closure of fire stations, reduction in volunteer firefighters, ambulance station closures? Where have you been for the past 10 years?? If, god forbid, the services you mentioned were added to the the Emergency services infrastructure, do you really think they'd be immune to cutbacks?

Keep them away from the grubby hands of the treasury and political interference.

 

[SkyBlueDom26]

 

[Astute]

There's a theory doing the rounds, although doesn't seem to be much in the way of evidence to back it up, that the reason Starmer is so reluctant to say who is backing him is down to their links to Blair. More than likley rubbish but when that mindset exists it would probably be a good idea if he distanced himself from Blair.

Think this has made him look weak. Nobody suspended while an investigation is carried out and he seems as concerned about the source of the leak as its contents.

Was anybody on the Labour members call last night? Looking on social media it seems he said something about not being critical of the government which, when their making such a mess of the current situation, seems an odd stance to take. Would like to know exactly what he said though if anyone had access to it. Could very well be something that's been taken out of context.

Just about everything seems to be taken out of context these days.

So who and how many should be suspended without looking at any evidence? Where has the information been coming from? Should we believe what is written on social media?

If we do believe it we had better burn down those 5g phone masts as they are causing the virus to spread around the world......including the places without 5g masts......

 

[skybluetony176]

Doesn't Rory Stewart speak loads of languages?

Apparently. Some really obscure ones too IIRC. Hence the but Boris speaks loads of languages too baseless PR.

 

[fernandopartridge]

Maybe it’s the Bank Holiday info coming through... let’s hope the trend over the week will settle off.

It's just the way it should be going, peak of infection occurs and peak death rate follows a couple of weeks later and holds up before dropping away. It would be strange to see a decline in the number of deaths yet. I'd guess we've been at 1k + deaths per day for over a week now if taking into account out of hospital.

 

[shmmeee]

Wasn’t this just a speculative story in the express as they tried to promote the he’s more intelligent than Rory Stewart line? I remember reading something about it during the leadership contest and I’m sure it’s just speculative based on his colourful ancestry. I think English, French (to Eaton level) plus a Flemish dialect of French as he briefly lived there is the length of it.

Again languages aren’t really intelligence. We’re taking about the ability that world leaders need to ingest and synthesise complex technical information. Application of knowledge, that’s what intelligence is. Rote learning doesn’t require any intelligence, just repetition.

Merkel clearly understands the science behind the pandemic, Johnson and Trump clearly don’t.

I’m sure he makes really nice cardboard buses too, it’s just not really relevant for being an effective world leader.

Blair, Obama, Merkel, these are people who whether you agree with their politics or not clearly have an understanding of the situation.

I just want that standard of person please. Starmer might be it, haven’t seen enough to judge and he has actually done a real high level job before, just a shame he’s got the charisma of a wet blanket so wouldn’t win an election these days.

What was I on about again?

 

[shmmeee]

He should get on here, we were saying that yesterday.

 

[clint van damme]

It was more the Europe bit I was arguing about.

Blair? Arguably most toxic among Labour voters(!) Question is, which outweighs what...

I dont think it will help him to appear to pro-European at the moment to be honest

You're right, maybe in the future but again, I would go for a subtle distancing for now and keep himself well apart from any 2nd referendum rhetoric.
At the moment there's a real chance to promote a society that can be pro business, pro economy while maintaining social responsibility and a commitment to properly funded public services.

 

[CCFCSteve]

Again languages aren’t really intelligence. We’re taking about the ability that world leaders need to ingest and synthesise complex technical information. Application of knowledge, that’s what intelligence is. Rote learning doesn’t require any intelligence, just repetition.

Merkel clearly understands the science behind the pandemic, Johnson and Trump clearly don’t.

I’m sure he makes really nice cardboard buses too, it’s just not really relevant for being an effective world leader.

Blair, Obama, Merkel, these are people who whether you agree with their politics or not clearly have an understanding of the situation.

I just want that standard of person please. Starmer might be it, haven’t seen enough to judge and he has actually done a real high level job before, just a shame he’s got the charisma of a wet blanket so wouldn’t win an election these days.

What was I on about again?

To be fair to Tony he was replying to me. This all started with me suggesting Johnson’s wasn’t stupid, as with a few things on this thread though things can kind of go off at a bit of a tangent !

 

[chiefdave]

So who and how many should be suspended without looking at any evidence? Where has the information been coming from? Should we believe what is written on social media?

I think you apply the party rules consistently. Those who in the report have racist, misogynistic or bullying attributed should be suspended pending investigation as has happened to others in the past, most recently Trevor Phillips and Faisal Shoukat.

How many times in recent years did we hear uproar in the media when a years old tweet or private message was made public? Not really seeing why it is acceptable for more leniency to be shown now because there's a new leader.

 

[Astute]

I think you apply the party rules consistently. Those who in the report have racist, misogynistic or bullying attributed should be suspended pending investigation as has happened to others in the past, most recently Trevor Phillips and Faisal Shoukat.

How many times in recent years did we hear uproar in the media when a years old tweet or private message was made public? Not really seeing why it is acceptable for more leniency to be shown now because there's a new leader.

Who has said anything is acceptable?

If something can be seen as guilty without a doubt as in racist remarks then yes at least suspend them. But alleged discrepancies are a different matter. So much bullshit going around. Best way of getting rid of someone you don't like is make an allegation.

 

[Ian1779]

Who has said anything is acceptable?

If something can be seen as guilty without a doubt as in racist remarks then yes at least suspend them. But alleged discrepancies are a different matter. So much bullshit going around. Best way of getting rid of someone you don't like is make an allegation.

These aren’t allegations - these come from actual conversations because one of the idiots downloaded their entire WhatsApp group conversations onto their work computer which was the property of the Labour Party.

 

[chiefdave]

Dominic Raab says there have been indications that social distancing measures in place are showing success.

But government advisers say the evidence is "mixed and inconsistent", and in some settings infections are increasing.

Don't think its a great idea for government advisers to be saying that. Already got people not paying attention to the guidelines, saying they might not be doing any good is just going to undermine efforts to get everyone to do as they are told.