Coronavirus Thread (Off Topic, Politics) (6 Viewers)

Sky_Blue_Dreamer

Well-Known Member
Thats very well put. What they don't realise is that it makes them look foolish and dishonest.

But they don't care. When they have privilege the thoughts of anyone they consider 'beneath' them are unimportant and water off a ducks back.

Besides which as long as they keep the power, influence and money they couldn't give a shit. That is what matters.
 

Astute

Well-Known Member
It's not solely the right that do it. Usually anyone in power will at some point have followed that method regardless of political leaning. But on the whole right wing tend to be hold more powerful positions. I reckon this failure to admit mistakes is a large part of it.
It isn't just a left wing or a right wing thing. But many people only look in one direction for an answer. They ignore looking for bad in those they agree with.

These days many don't want to admit what they have done wrong. It isn't just a Tory thing.
 

CCFCSteve

Well-Known Member
He went to Oxford and can recite some latin

haha, correct.

isn’t he fluent in 3-4 languages and can speak well in 2-3 others. Again, appreciate people aren’t fans (some for good reason) and I’m not suggesting he’s a genius, but not sure he can be classed as stupid hence my original comment
 

Astute

Well-Known Member
I think you are on dangerous ground there, Hopkins is way, way worse. As we speak she is still posting anti-muslim/pakistani rhetoric, is saying that the 'clap' is being hijacked by BAME people and is calling for an end to lockdown and its all over-hyped. She's in a different league to Morgan.
But as I said occasionally she is right. And also as I said she only makes a living from being controversial.

Did you see the time on TV where she said children shouldn't be named after flowers. She got reminded she had a daughter called Poppy. She made her excuses then continued. She said Then that children shouldn't be named after places like Brooklyn or Paris. She then got reminded that she had a daughter called India :D
 

Ring Of Steel

Well-Known Member
haha, correct.

isn’t he fluent in 3-4 languages and can speak well in 2-3 others. Again, appreciate people aren’t fans (some for good reason) and I’m not suggesting he’s a genius, but not sure he can be classed as stupid hence my original comment

Yes but "stupid"- define that? Emotional Intelligence is just as important as IQ especially in positions of leadership, and the government are totally devoid of it. 'Intelligence' is a very big word to apply to someone, if it was that easy then Stephen Hawking should have been PM.
 

Sky_Blue_Dreamer

Well-Known Member
It isn't just a left wing or a right wing thing. But many people only look in one direction for an answer. They ignore looking for bad in those they agree with.

These days many don't want to admit what they have done wrong. It isn't just a Tory thing.

Maybe not these days, but it has spread because it has been effective for the right in the past. As long as they can get enough people to agree you weren't a fault, or at least question whether any mistake has been made, you're often not held to account and you wait for it to blow over and for them to move onto the next hot topic.
 

Ring Of Steel

Well-Known Member
But as I said occasionally she is right. And also as I said she only makes a living from being controversial.

Did you see the time on TV where she said children shouldn't be named after flowers. She got reminded she had a daughter called Poppy. She made her excuses then continued. She said Then that children shouldn't be named after places like Brooklyn or Paris. She then got reminded that she had a daughter called India :D

I'm not going to ask what you think she has been right on as I suspect it wouldn't lead to a nice conversation.
 

MalcSB

Well-Known Member
Thats very well put. What they don't realise is that it makes them look foolish and dishonest.


Ah yes, she's the one that when Boris came out of ICU she tweeted "the country can breathe again", on the day when we passed 10,000 people who had stopped breathing permanently. Great way with words that one.

Taking the PM out of the question for a moment- educate me here. Is this the worst collection of ministers ('cabinet' I guess) of all time? Who could possibly have been worse than Hancock, Patel, Raab etc? They just seem to be be astoundingly unfit to be running the country. The one thing they all seem to lack is any kind of empathy- when you have a situation where Piers bloody Morgan is easily dissecting them every day on national TV you surely know you have a major problem with your competence levels? I have very limited knowledge here but I would guess that the opposition at the last election was up there with the most ineffective as well- maybe Howard, Hague & IDS would push them though- I don't know. This country seems completely unable to find 'leadership'.
Are any of the political “class” up to scratch these days?
 

Astute

Well-Known Member
haha, correct.

isn’t he fluent in 3-4 languages and can speak well in 2-3 others. Again, appreciate people aren’t fans (some for good reason) and I’m not suggesting he’s a genius, but not sure he can be classed as stupid hence my original comment
You can be intelligent but also stupid.

My wife is very intelligent but also stupid. People are sometimes amazed at comments she makes as they don't make sense to anyone else. And to prove a point she married me :)
 

CCFCSteve

Well-Known Member
One of the main tenets of right sided thinking is to never, ever admit fault or mistake. Never say sorry. It can be used as a stick to beat you with and seen as a sign of weakness. If you don't admit mistakes or spin it even if it seems pretty obvious you've fucked up you make people find clear evidence of your fault and that's much harder and you can just carry on.

Agree with this SBD but think it’s common across politics. I can never understand how people don’t want to admit theyre wrong and/or say sorry. 9 out of 10 people would respect individuals more for it and probably more likely to trust/support them in future
 

Astute

Well-Known Member
I'm not going to ask what you think she has been right on as I suspect it wouldn't lead to a nice conversation.
I don't follow her as I don't like the woman. And my memory is shocking these days. But she has made comments in the past that said the same thing as with Morgan. 'Can't believe I agree with Hopkins'
 

Ring Of Steel

Well-Known Member

I'm going to amend my view- has there ever been a government with such a lack of Emotional Intelligence (EQ)? Very basic definition- knowing what emotion to use & how to conduct oneself at any particular time in order to convey leadership, knowledge & assurance no matter what actual knowledge might be.

One thing I'd say about Boris- he has high EQ. He patently knows very little, but he has the ability to engage people and get them on side. Not all, but big swathes want this guy to talk to them.
 

fernandopartridge

Well-Known Member
haha, correct.

isn’t he fluent in 3-4 languages and can speak well in 2-3 others. Again, appreciate people aren’t fans (some for good reason) and I’m not suggesting he’s a genius, but not sure he can be classed as stupid hence my original comment
He's good at rote learning. He isn't stupid of course but the reality probably is that he doesn't really care. He isn't interested in detail. This is the problem with our increasing move towards a presidential form of a Prime Minister.
 

bezzer

Well-Known Member
Also never understood why RNLI, mountain rescue and air ambulance aren't state funded.
They're much better off not being funded by the government. In times of Austerity can you imagine some of the first things that would have funding cut? The ones above would no doubt be very high up the list.
 

Sick Boy

Super Moderator
Yes I’m sure when John McDonnell said sorry for his past terrorist associations he was genuinely remorseful and I’m sure Clegg was really sorry for his blatant lies. Any politician that says sorry isn’t sorry at all The charlatan Macron being a clastic example. Politicians apologise when expedient to do so
Hahaha and yet another rant about Macron.
 

Ring Of Steel

Well-Known Member
Over here those who go to the classics school can recite Latin and Ancient Greek as well, and that’s just a standard comprehensive that 25% of students go to.

I did Latin and Greek at school, in the intervening 25 yrs I've yet to find any practical use for what I learned- let alone thinking it might qualify me to become Prime Minister. As for doing it university, thats not intelligence, thats rote learning loads of things that you will never, ever have any real use for.

Actually I still remember bits now- puella est territus per lupus- the girl was shit scared of a wolf :)
 

Astute

Well-Known Member
Hahaha and yet another rant about Macron.
My wife now admires Macron. Didn't think much of him at first as she didn't hear much good about him. But she realised how militant the French are when the school children were allowed to go on strike as it is their right.

The biggest thing to change her mind was when he thanked the militant French for mainly keeping to the rules imposed on them.
 

Sick Boy

Super Moderator
I did Latin and Greek at school, in the intervening 25 yrs I've yet to find any practical use for what I learned- let alone thinking it might qualify me to become Prime Minister. As for doing it university, thats not intelligence, thats rote learning loads of things that you will never, ever have any real use for.

Actually I still remember bits now- puella est territus per lupus- the girl was shit scared of a wolf :)
Yeah I agree, i don’t see the point, personally...I just like to remind them that Italian is essentially a dying language, winds them up every time.
 

CCFCSteve

Well-Known Member
I'm going to amend my view- has there ever been a government with such a lack of Emotional Intelligence (EQ)? Very basic definition- knowing what emotion to use & how to conduct oneself at any particular time in order to convey leadership, knowledge & assurance no matter what actual knowledge might be.

One thing I'd say about Boris- he has high EQ. He patently knows very little, but he has the ability to engage people and get them on side. Not all, but big swathes want this guy to talk to them.

How can you say that, especially when Hancock produced a new badge yesterday ?!!

Johnson’s ability to engage etc indicate he’s got a bit more emotional intelligence than (most) other members of the cabinet... maybe it was a pre requisite for appointments.

Unfortunately I think it’s something that’s lacking across a lot of the political spectrum
 

Astute

Well-Known Member
I did Latin and Greek at school, in the intervening 25 yrs I've yet to find any practical use for what I learned- let alone thinking it might qualify me to become Prime Minister. As for doing it university, thats not intelligence, thats rote learning loads of things that you will never, ever have any real use for.

Actually I still remember bits now- puella est territus per lupus- the girl was shit scared of a wolf :)
Vox nihili best describes Boris and his statements.
 

Ian1779

Well-Known Member
An inept government got voted in because an inept opposition didn't have a clue what to do for the best.

The worse thing is if we pull out of the aftermath of the virus and do OK Boris might be seen as some kind of hero.

I just hope Starmer is up to showing Boris for what he is. And that the Labour infighting stops. Get both and we should get a Labour government. Miss one and we won't.

It saddens me to say that I don’t think he can deliver. He sounds like a mouthpiece for Blair. His comments yesterday about publishing an exit strategy were followed up today by The Blair Institute floating their newest think-tank piece of exactly the same thing.

And before anyone starts giving it about Blair winning 3 elections - I know he did but he jumped once he knew people saw through him.

Really happy to be wrong though!!
 

Astute

Well-Known Member
Yeah I agree, i don’t see the point, personally...I just like to remind them that Italian is essentially a dying language, winds them up every time.
At least the word pizza will survive.
 

Astute

Well-Known Member
It saddens me to say that I don’t think he can deliver. He sounds like a mouthpiece for Blair. His comments yesterday about publishing an exit strategy were followed up today by The Blair Institute floating their newest think-tank piece of exactly the same thing.

And before anyone starts giving it about Blair winning 3 elections - I know he did but he jumped once he knew people saw through him.

Really happy to be wrong though!!
Not the fault of Starmer that someone copies what he says.

It seems to me that he won't be able to win over many who only want a leftie in charge. Seems some would prefer another Tory government than to back Starmer. Yet when you ask them who would they prefer to Starmer they don't have an answer.
 

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
haha, correct.

isn’t he fluent in 3-4 languages and can speak well in 2-3 others. Again, appreciate people aren’t fans (some for good reason) and I’m not suggesting he’s a genius, but not sure he can be classed as stupid hence my original comment
Wasn’t this just a speculative story in the express as they tried to promote the he’s more intelligent than Rory Stewart line? I remember reading something about it during the leadership contest and I’m sure it’s just speculative based on his colourful ancestry. I think English, French (to Eaton level) plus a Flemish dialect of French as he briefly lived there is the length of it.
 
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Sky_Blue_Dreamer

Well-Known Member
Agree with this SBD but think it’s common across politics. I can never understand how people don’t want to admit theyre wrong and/or say sorry. 9 out of 10 people would respect individuals more for it and probably more likely to trust/support them in future

As I've later qualified it is more to do with positions of power rather than political leaning BUT it has spread from a right-thinking mentality which has largely been based on privilege and class. "I'm higher class than you so I therefore must be right. And if I'm right I have nothing to say sorry for".

I agree they'd get more respect overall (I think) but at the same time would it increase their likelihood of being (re)elected? The opposition would constantly use it to remind people they make errors. So if the opposition won't admit to failings you can't either. You might respect them more but would people vote for them more given that they've admitted they can be wrong? Given how often people get re-elected even after huge mistakes suggests not accepting blame is a good strategy for winning elections and no-one is going to test the theory out just in case.
 
D

Deleted member 5849

Guest
It saddens me to say that I don’t think he can deliver. He sounds like a mouthpiece for Blair. His comments yesterday about publishing an exit strategy were followed up today by The Blair Institute floating their newest think-tank piece of exactly the same thing.

And before anyone starts giving it about Blair winning 3 elections - I know he did but he jumped once he knew people saw through him.

Really happy to be wrong though!!
Take the best of Blair together with the best of a more 'traditional' Labour ethos, and you'd have a winner.
 

Ian1779

Well-Known Member
Not the fault of Starmer that someone copies what he says.

It seems to me that he won't be able to win over many who only want a leftie in charge. Seems some would prefer another Tory government than to back Starmer. Yet when you ask them who would they prefer to Starmer they don't have an answer.

I don’t agree - lefties will support him if it’s clear that their movement is not marginalised for the right of the party. The right of the party that brought us immigration mugs, abstention on austerity and welfare.

Since 2015 the right have done nothing but try to harm Labours chances... where are their ideas, their vision for a transformative future? All the good ideas (and some bad ones too) have come from the left. They’ve just spent their time bitching, moaning and now apparently sabotaging. It was the right of the party that wanted to pursue the PV nonsense, Tom Watson famously coming out saying not backing the PV would kill Labours chances on 2019. It was so out of touch with what people wanted.

Starmer needs to get on top of this report - kick a bunch of people out of the party and show proper leadership. If he does it then he will get the support of the left IMO.
 

CCFCSteve

Well-Known Member
Wasn’t this just a speculative story in the express as they tried to promote the he’s more intelligent than Rory Stewart line? I remember reading something about it during the leadership contest and I’m sure it’s just speculative based on his colourful ancestry. I think English, French (to Eaton level) plus a Flemish dialect of French as he briefly lived there as the length of it.

I can’t recall, I thought it’s pretty common knowledge that he had a decent grasp of a few different languages.
 

Sky_Blue_Dreamer

Well-Known Member
They're much better off not being funded by the government. In times of Austerity can you imagine some of the first things that would have funding cut? The ones above would no doubt be very high up the list.

Tell that to the people that struggle to fundraise enough to keep them afloat (pun unintended). Wouldn't stop them getting extra donations in as well. You make them part of the emergency infrastructure so people don't question it. Fire, police, ambulances etc also see drastic funding cuts during austerity but should they become charity funded instead? Or is it just for years of having them there we've come to expect them to be paid for.
 

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