Coronavirus Thread (Off Topic, Politics) (166 Viewers)

[Deleted member 5849]

I really don't see how an association with Blair can help him.
The name has too much baggage. Look how Johnson distanced himself from Thatcher when he thought it was prudent to do so, subtly so he could always go back, but for now distanced himself all the same.

It was more the Europe bit I was arguing about.

Blair? Arguably most toxic among Labour voters(!) Question is, which outweighs what...

 

---

[Ring Of Steel]

Total Cases are down though which is a good sign

testing?

 

[bezzer]

Tell that to the people that struggle to fundraise enough to keep them afloat (pun unintended). Wouldn't stop them getting extra donations in as well. You make them part of the emergency infrastructure so people don't question it. Fire, police, ambulances etc also see drastic funding cuts during austerity but should they become charity funded instead? Or is it just for years of having them there we've come to expect them to be paid for.

Have you not noticed the cuts to Police Numbers, closure of fire stations, reduction in volunteer firefighters, ambulance station closures? Where have you been for the past 10 years?? If, god forbid, the services you mentioned were added to the the Emergency services infrastructure, do you really think they'd be immune to cutbacks?

Keep them away from the grubby hands of the treasury and political interference.

 

[SkyBlueDom26]

 

[Astute]

There's a theory doing the rounds, although doesn't seem to be much in the way of evidence to back it up, that the reason Starmer is so reluctant to say who is backing him is down to their links to Blair. More than likley rubbish but when that mindset exists it would probably be a good idea if he distanced himself from Blair.

Think this has made him look weak. Nobody suspended while an investigation is carried out and he seems as concerned about the source of the leak as its contents.

Was anybody on the Labour members call last night? Looking on social media it seems he said something about not being critical of the government which, when their making such a mess of the current situation, seems an odd stance to take. Would like to know exactly what he said though if anyone had access to it. Could very well be something that's been taken out of context.

Just about everything seems to be taken out of context these days.

So who and how many should be suspended without looking at any evidence? Where has the information been coming from? Should we believe what is written on social media?

If we do believe it we had better burn down those 5g phone masts as they are causing the virus to spread around the world......including the places without 5g masts......

 

[skybluetony176]

Doesn't Rory Stewart speak loads of languages?

Apparently. Some really obscure ones too IIRC. Hence the but Boris speaks loads of languages too baseless PR.

 

[fernandopartridge]

Maybe it’s the Bank Holiday info coming through... let’s hope the trend over the week will settle off.

It's just the way it should be going, peak of infection occurs and peak death rate follows a couple of weeks later and holds up before dropping away. It would be strange to see a decline in the number of deaths yet. I'd guess we've been at 1k + deaths per day for over a week now if taking into account out of hospital.

 

[shmmeee]

Wasn’t this just a speculative story in the express as they tried to promote the he’s more intelligent than Rory Stewart line? I remember reading something about it during the leadership contest and I’m sure it’s just speculative based on his colourful ancestry. I think English, French (to Eaton level) plus a Flemish dialect of French as he briefly lived there is the length of it.

Again languages aren’t really intelligence. We’re taking about the ability that world leaders need to ingest and synthesise complex technical information. Application of knowledge, that’s what intelligence is. Rote learning doesn’t require any intelligence, just repetition.

Merkel clearly understands the science behind the pandemic, Johnson and Trump clearly don’t.

I’m sure he makes really nice cardboard buses too, it’s just not really relevant for being an effective world leader.

Blair, Obama, Merkel, these are people who whether you agree with their politics or not clearly have an understanding of the situation.

I just want that standard of person please. Starmer might be it, haven’t seen enough to judge and he has actually done a real high level job before, just a shame he’s got the charisma of a wet blanket so wouldn’t win an election these days.

What was I on about again?

 

[shmmeee]

He should get on here, we were saying that yesterday.

 

[clint van damme]

It was more the Europe bit I was arguing about.

Blair? Arguably most toxic among Labour voters(!) Question is, which outweighs what...

I dont think it will help him to appear to pro-European at the moment to be honest

You're right, maybe in the future but again, I would go for a subtle distancing for now and keep himself well apart from any 2nd referendum rhetoric.
At the moment there's a real chance to promote a society that can be pro business, pro economy while maintaining social responsibility and a commitment to properly funded public services.

 

[CCFCSteve]

Again languages aren’t really intelligence. We’re taking about the ability that world leaders need to ingest and synthesise complex technical information. Application of knowledge, that’s what intelligence is. Rote learning doesn’t require any intelligence, just repetition.

Merkel clearly understands the science behind the pandemic, Johnson and Trump clearly don’t.

I’m sure he makes really nice cardboard buses too, it’s just not really relevant for being an effective world leader.

Blair, Obama, Merkel, these are people who whether you agree with their politics or not clearly have an understanding of the situation.

I just want that standard of person please. Starmer might be it, haven’t seen enough to judge and he has actually done a real high level job before, just a shame he’s got the charisma of a wet blanket so wouldn’t win an election these days.

What was I on about again?

To be fair to Tony he was replying to me. This all started with me suggesting Johnson’s wasn’t stupid, as with a few things on this thread though things can kind of go off at a bit of a tangent !

 

[chiefdave]

So who and how many should be suspended without looking at any evidence? Where has the information been coming from? Should we believe what is written on social media?

I think you apply the party rules consistently. Those who in the report have racist, misogynistic or bullying attributed should be suspended pending investigation as has happened to others in the past, most recently Trevor Phillips and Faisal Shoukat.

How many times in recent years did we hear uproar in the media when a years old tweet or private message was made public? Not really seeing why it is acceptable for more leniency to be shown now because there's a new leader.

 

[Astute]

I think you apply the party rules consistently. Those who in the report have racist, misogynistic or bullying attributed should be suspended pending investigation as has happened to others in the past, most recently Trevor Phillips and Faisal Shoukat.

How many times in recent years did we hear uproar in the media when a years old tweet or private message was made public? Not really seeing why it is acceptable for more leniency to be shown now because there's a new leader.

Who has said anything is acceptable?

If something can be seen as guilty without a doubt as in racist remarks then yes at least suspend them. But alleged discrepancies are a different matter. So much bullshit going around. Best way of getting rid of someone you don't like is make an allegation.

 

[Ian1779]

Who has said anything is acceptable?

If something can be seen as guilty without a doubt as in racist remarks then yes at least suspend them. But alleged discrepancies are a different matter. So much bullshit going around. Best way of getting rid of someone you don't like is make an allegation.

These aren’t allegations - these come from actual conversations because one of the idiots downloaded their entire WhatsApp group conversations onto their work computer which was the property of the Labour Party.

 

[chiefdave]

Dominic Raab says there have been indications that social distancing measures in place are showing success.

But government advisers say the evidence is "mixed and inconsistent", and in some settings infections are increasing.

Don't think its a great idea for government advisers to be saying that. Already got people not paying attention to the guidelines, saying they might not be doing any good is just going to undermine efforts to get everyone to do as they are told.

 

[David O'Day]

Raab is a tad shite ain't he.

Keanu Reeves is more convincing

 

[Wyken Sky Blue]

Everytime I watch this press conference, the media waste questions

The BBC just asked one to Raab as to when are we likely to expect the lockdown measures to be reduced.

Why ask when no one knows an accurate date? There's not point getting people's hopes up.

Three weeks at a time as described at the start of the lockdown.

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[Johnnythespider]

Everytime I watch this press conference, the media waste questions

The BBC just asked one to Raab as to when are we likely to expect the lockdown measures to be reduced.

Why ask when no one knows an accurate date? There's not point getting people's hopes up.

Three weeks at a time as described at the start of the lockdown.

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Kuenssberg is beyond useless

 

[clint van damme]

Kuenssberg is beyond useless

Not to the Tories she's not!

 

[Astute]

These aren’t allegations - these come from actual conversations because one of the idiots downloaded their entire WhatsApp group conversations onto their work computer which was the property of the Labour Party.

Look at what I said again.

Those that can be proven without a doubt should at least be suspended. This will include those where you can see the comments.

The others I mentioned will be those where you can't see any evidence. That can't be those where you can see the conversations you have brought up again.

 

[wingy]

Don't think its a great idea for government advisers to be saying that. Already got people not paying attention to the guidelines, saying they might not be doing any good is just going to undermine efforts to get everyone to do as they are told.

Yeah but it's in health and social care settings

Not the wider community AFAIK.

 

[Nick]

I've ended up in a strange parallel world where Piers Morgan is the voice of reason. Nadine Dorries tweeted that full lockdown would last until a vaccine is found. Morgan picked up on it tweeting "Health minister says UK will be in ‘full lockdown’ until there is COVID-19 vaccine - which experts say will be at least 18 months. Astonishing break from other Govt statements". She's now outright denying she said it.

View attachment 14866

Piers morgan is just trying to stir up as much anger as he can.

 

[wingy]

Not to the Tories she's not!

Anyone see Nahga with John Ashton this morning?

 

[David O'Day]

Piers morgan is just trying to stir up as much anger as he can.

She was talking nonsense as her brief is above her.

Hancocks comments about Neil Ferguson were those of a petulant child.

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[wingy]

Kuenssberg is beyond useless

Tbf the whole pack have been pushing this for close to a week now.
Utter waste of time .
Very hard to understand the reasoning.

 

[wingy]

She was talking nonsense as her brief is above her.

Hancocks comments about Neil Ferguson were those of a petulant child.

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Which was what,?

 

[David O'Day]

Anyone see Nahga with John Ashton this morning?

John Ashton does gave am axe to grind over his sacking so I'd take what he says with a pinch of salt

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[David O'Day]

Which was what,?

His he advises the government he's not o .the government wibbling

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[CCFCSteve]

Everytime I watch this press conference, the media waste questions

The BBC just asked one to Raab as to when are we likely to expect the lockdown measures to be reduced.

Why ask when no one knows an accurate date? There's not point getting people's hopes up.

Three weeks at a time as described at the start of the lockdown.

Sent from my I3113 using Tapatalk

It’s the same every day. Pushing for answers that the government don’t know/won’t give at present and/or repeating questions already asked by others (in different words).

I think the daily press briefings are worth having (a useful update for those that want it) but if anyone’s looking for anything groundbreaking on a daily basis they’re going to be disappointed. The monotonous/repetitive messaging might be dull but on the face of it, looking at the numbers following the measures, it does appear to have been successful to date

 

[Liquid Gold]

Tory plants...

Stealing all the light from the other plants?

 

[shmmeee]

These aren’t allegations - these come from actual conversations because one of the idiots downloaded their entire WhatsApp group conversations onto their work computer which was the property of the Labour Party.

We’ve only got the person who made the reports word they’re unedited TBF, there are already people claiming they’ve been edited, taken out of context, or plain made up.

And the law isn’t cut and dried about accessing private data just because you found it on a work machine. If the person can prove an expectation of privacy then it’s still protected.

This whole thing is going to be a massive legal mess which I suspect Starmer as a former lawyer is well aware of and is why he’s not storming around sacking everyone mentioned and their spouse as some have been calling for. There’s going to be GDPR fines, libel cases brought, it’s going to be a shitshow of epic proportions.

I expect the staffers that remain will leave as their position is untenable but I can’t see him wanting to set a precedent around sacking people for private conversations. I’ve not seen the racism yet. Read an Ask Sarkar piece that claimed being mean about Abbott was racist but it didn’t back it up other than to say “she’s black so it’s racist”, I think there was something about Douglas Murray saying moderate Islam had questions to answer about terrorism, which again is borderline. The worst people like the guy ignoring AS emails have already gone. Much of the really bad behaviour was over three years ago.

As for non staffers, I’d expect Iain McNicol to not get a SC position and that’s about it.

The most frustrating thing is it’s just blown open all the factional crap again just as we were starting with a new leader. It’s clearly been leaked to get the membership riled up rather than actually achieve anything internally.

I say all of this and I still haven’t read the whole thing yet, just going off reports.

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

Have you not noticed the cuts to Police Numbers, closure of fire stations, reduction in volunteer firefighters, ambulance station closures? Where have you been for the past 10 years?? If, god forbid, the services you mentioned were added to the the Emergency services infrastructure, do you really think they'd be immune to cutbacks?

Keep them away from the grubby hands of the treasury and political interference.

So I assume therefore you want ambulances, police and fire services to be removed from public funding and run solely on donations from the public and manned by volunteers like the RNLI, mountain rescue and air ambulance are?

 

[clint van damme]

We’ve only got the person who made the reports word they’re unedited TBF, there are already people claiming they’ve been edited, taken out of context, or plain made up.

And the law isn’t cut and dried about accessing private data just because you found it on a work machine. If the person can prove an expectation of privacy then it’s still protected.

This whole thing is going to be a massive legal mess which I suspect Starmer as a former lawyer is well aware of and is why he’s not storming around sacking everyone mentioned and their spouse as some have been calling for. There’s going to be GDPR fines, libel cases brought, it’s going to be a shitshow of epic proportions.

I expect the staffers that remain will leave as their position is untenable but I can’t see him wanting to set a precedent around sacking people for private conversations. I’ve not seen the racism yet. Read an Ask Sarkar piece that claimed being mean about Abbott was racist but it didn’t back it up other than to say “she’s black so it’s racist”, I think there was something about Douglas Murray saying moderate Islam had questions to answer about terrorism, which again is borderline. The worst people like the guy ignoring AS emails have already gone. Much of the really bad behaviour was over three years ago.

As for non staffers, I’d expect Iain McNicol to not get a SC position and that’s about it.

The most frustrating thing is it’s just blown open all the factional crap again just as we were starting with a new leader. It’s clearly been leaked to get the membership riled up rather than actually achieve anything internally.

I say all of this and I still haven’t read the whole thing yet, just going off reports.

The shes black so it's racist comment could easily be supplanted with shes Jewish so it's antisemitic in certain incidents.
Look at the spurious evidence against Marc Wadsworth in the Ruth Smeeth incident yet he got expelled


The tit for tat has got a long way to go unless Starmer can.prove himself to be the shrewdess of operators and find a way to nip it in the bud.

I see some of the staffers Are trying to stop their branch of Unite sending out a solidarity letter to BAME MPs as it implies guilt. They may have a point but you know how that's going to play out.
Too many people want their pound of flesh now.
Like I say, Starmer is going to.need to do something very impressive to get a grip on all of this.

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

Too many people want their pound of flesh now..

Is it wise to use a term associated to a Jewish Shakespearean character?

 

[clint van damme]

Is it wise to use a term associated to a Jewish Shakespearean character?

When you don't know the character is Jewish I'm not sure you have a choice!