shmmeee
Well-Known Member
It’s not though is it?
Labour focused on reducing poverty and improving access to education (causes of crime) while also bringing in stuff like ASBOs (tough on crime).
You just don’t like Blair.
Yet it means nothing, just a sound bite of words with literally no substance, bit like everything that Boris says.
Out Blaired the Blair’s.
It’s not though is it?
Labour focused on reducing poverty and improving access to education (causes of crime) while also bringing in stuff like ASBOs (tough on crime).
You just don’t like Blair.
You’re right I don’t like Blair.
He did do those things - he was massively helped by begging given a media platform to articulate the vision, show how these could and would work.
The ‘left’ don’t have a platform like that any more to articulate the vision and ideas (did they really ever is maybe another debate)
How do you combat that?
Did a porter shag your missus once or something?
Even Johnson wouldn't use this as an excuse to miss another PMQs would he?Raab back in charge, Boris is probably off on paternity leave now!
You can guarantee that when the pubs reopen there will be a lot of
"I am an NHS worker, I am in Wetherspoons at table 15, send me drinks".
He'll be off for 6 monthsEven Johnson wouldn't use this as an excuse to miss another PMQs would he?
You start by not refusing to talk to them, being arsey when you do talk to them, rant on and on about how their owners are evil and you’ll bankrupt them given half a chance.
Then you continue by being a professional outfit that is across its brief and getting lines out on time.
Only then do you get to whine about media bias.
The left were a massive disappointment the last five years. They were incompetent, lazy, conspiracy riddled. We don’t get to blame the media bias or anything else until we get our own house in order.
Then we need to be positive. Like the country and it’s people. Listen to their concerns and explain how we will solve them in simple clear messages about policy.
None of this is rocket science but we refuse to do it. It’s childish: “wearing a suit is Tory” “having a media strategy is Tory” “listening to voters and trying to win a majority is Tory”.
I’ll let you in on a secret: the media pander to the public, not the other way around. Murdoch backs winners because he sees which way the wind is blowing not because he’s an all powerful mastermind. When the left talk about “pandering to the right wing media” what they really mean is “pandering to the British public”. You may not agree with a majority of voters, I certainly don’t, but you’ve got to accept that in a democracy you need their support.
You start by not refusing to talk to them, being arsey when you do talk to them, rant on and on about how their owners are evil and you’ll bankrupt them given half a chance.
Then you continue by being a professional outfit that is across its brief and getting lines out on time.
Only then do you get to whine about media bias.
The left were a massive disappointment the last five years. They were incompetent, lazy, conspiracy riddled. We don’t get to blame the media bias or anything else until we get our own house in order.
Then we need to be positive. Like the country and it’s people. Listen to their concerns and explain how we will solve them in simple clear messages about policy.
None of this is rocket science but we refuse to do it. It’s childish: “wearing a suit is Tory” “having a media strategy is Tory” “listening to voters and trying to win a majority is Tory”.
I’ll let you in on a secret: the media pander to the public, not the other way around. Murdoch backs winners because he sees which way the wind is blowing not because he’s an all powerful mastermind. When the left talk about “pandering to the right wing media” what they really mean is “pandering to the British public”. You may not agree with a majority of voters, I certainly don’t, but you’ve got to accept that in a democracy you need their support.
Let’s say you’re right (and i can’t find much in there to disagree with) then why didn’t the left re-take control in 2015? They did these things you have said... but they went even further behind than in 2010
Why? He was just taken apart by the mediaEd Miliband was an idiot
I think it’s safe to say we’ve fucked up the first wave monumentally. Will all come down to second wave and beyond now.
Noticed this below it as well:
But he followed the ‘grown ups in charge’ roadmap.... he should have romped to victory.Ed Miliband was an idiot
“Tough on crime, tough on the causes of crime”. Perfect messaging. These days you’d be up in arms at the “dog whistle”.
As for immigration, TBH there’s nothing socialist about not protecting community cohesion or low paid workers. You can have high immigration as long as it’s not at the expense or poor communities. There’s a really good thread I read on this:
I’m not sure I agree that you can convince people rapid large scale low skilled immigration is good, but the points about taking people with you and planning where immigrants will live and work are good ones IMO.
Put the bunting up and the flags out of the windowsCongratulations Dom hope you’re recovering well
Cool story.It’s not though is it?
Labour focused on reducing poverty and improving access to education (causes of crime) while also bringing in stuff like ASBOs (tough on crime).
You just don’t like Blair.
Then we need to be positive. Like the country and it’s people. Listen to their concerns and explain how we will solve them in simple clear messages about policy.
Cool story.
Reducing poverty and improving access to education? It was Labour who introduced fees for university students. And since when did the criminal fraternity want to go to university?
ASBO's tough on crime? Since when has a slap on the wrist become tough on crime?
Why? He was just taken apart by the media
I agree about the simple messages and listen to concerns, but explaining how you solve them is a waste of time.
Look at Johnson - using such wide brushstrokes he may as well have just got the paint roller on it. So little detail and explanation and he gets a landslide.
So sod the explaining - whack the policy in the manifesto then just focus on simple messages that the public will respond to - i.e. immigration, NHS, crime etc.
Then when you're in you can put the manifesto policy into action and if people didn't read it that's their own problem.
Ed Stone
Bacon sandwich
Talking and looking like Pitt the Younger every PMQs
Always trying to remember what the focus groups said rather than thinking for himself
Losing all of Scotland in one go
Explain is the wrong word maybe. Here, Voter concerns 2019:
Concern: Crime - Tory campaign: “20,000 new police officers” - Labour campaign: nothing in their headline policies
Concern: Brexit resolution - Tory campaign: “Get Brexit Done” - Labour campaign: “6 month delay minimum while we organise a second referendum”
Concern: NHS - Tory campaign: “40 new hospitals and 50,000 new nurses” - Labour campaign: “increase health budget by 4.8% & some easily denied conspiracy theory about Trump buying the NHS”
See the difference? And I had to google Labours stuff and not the Tories. And I’m a Labour member!
I'll tell you exactly what is wrong. Labour voters look at what is wrong with the opposition but ignore what is wrong with their own party. Look at when a few of us were saying the last GE was going to be a landslide. We were wrong and anti Labour. But now it is over those who constantly had digs at us for saying what was wrong now say they could see what was wrong.I agree about the simple messages and listen to concerns, but explaining how you solve them is a waste of time.
Look at Johnson - using such wide brushstrokes he may as well have just got the paint roller on it. So little detail and explanation and he gets a landslide.
So sod the explaining - whack the policy in the manifesto then just focus on simple messages that the public will respond to - i.e. immigration, NHS, crime etc.
Then when you're in you can put the manifesto policy into action and if people didn't read it that's their own problem.
After Brexit it was said that one of the lefts biggest issues was regarding voters as stupid yet the reasons put forward for the Conservatives winning, the claims of additional police, nurses and hospitals, amount to calling voters stupid as they were so quickly and easily shown to be false.It’s sad you are right because all of those Tory statements are lies
It’s sad you are right because all of those Tory statements are lies
After Brexit it was said that one of the lefts biggest issues was regarding voters as stupid yet the reasons put forward for the Conservatives winning, the claims of additional police, nurses and hospitals, amount to calling voters stupid as they were so quickly and easily shown to be false.
He lost Scotland because he took the same position as the Conservatives in the Independence Referendum.
I agree about the focus group thing - I worry we might be heading back that way.
The stone was shit - but straight out of the grown ups play book.
Voters aren’t stupid but they are not paying attention. For all their faults Blair and Campbell got this. Almost 25 years later and I can still reel off the pledge card or the speech slogans “reduce class sizes” “education education education”. Corbyn never came close to that level of media savvy and it was nothing to do with him being treated unfairly.
Until the left starts accepting responsibility for their losses they have no hope of not losing. That’s why I’m upset. Comfort blankets about stupid voters and nasty Tories and evil press barons may make you feel good but they don’t lead to a left wing government.
You gotta feel for them on some level. They wanted five years of culture wars and solving every problem by waving a little Union Jack and riling the idiots up about the war. They were never intended to be an actual government in charge of serious things.
Look back. Shmmeee said about reducing poverty and improving access to education. That is what I replied to because nobody said a thing as usual.I think their mass investment in school facilities was worthy of praise, introducing tuition fees and academisation less so
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