shmmeee
Well-Known Member
The comment I replied to was saying WHO said masks were pointless. They don’t.
Whether they are perfect or whether behavioural science is a respectable discipline are different questions entirely.
There's been a huge debate on this so I think common sense is required. Whilst masks can help prevent the spread you can still very easily pick up the virus despite wearing one. E.g. If someone coughs in your proximity or when taking it off after going outside. The risk is lessened but it still remains.
So, the article Grendal posted is still valid and countless scientists have confirmed that face masks may spark a false sense of confidence if not used in conjunction with social distancing where possible.
Your argument isn't relevant - like I said use your common sense. Wearing masks won't guarantee you not catching the virus, they simply minimise the risk of transmission. If social distancing is not actioned where possible in conjunction with wearing them then you can see why some have claimed their use only goes so far. Especially as you can catch Covid through your eyes.
This is where they need to be careful when opening up public transport to all. As masks won't be enough to stop the spread on packed trains/tubes.
Your argument isn't relevant - like I said use your common sense. Wearing masks won't guarantee you not catching the virus, they simply minimise the risk of transmission. If social distancing is not actioned where possible in conjunction with wearing them then you can see why some have claimed their use only goes so far. Especially as you can catch Covid through your eyes.
This is where they need to be careful when opening up public transport to all. As masks won't be enough to stop the spread on packed trains/tubes.
The comment I replied to was saying WHO said masks were pointless. They don’t.
Whether they are perfect or whether behavioural science is a respectable discipline are different questions entirely.
Masks useless for you
Masks will obviously slow the spread. The counter arguments to what you’ve said are: they serve as a visual reminder of the situation, they help people not touch their mouths out of habit, and they prevent asymptomatic people spreading it unknowingly.
We aren’t looking for perfect. We are looking for multiple ways to slow the spread. Masks are such an obvious solution which is why Asian countries that have experienced pandemics use them extensively.
For some reason the edgelords on the internet have latched onto them for their latest “ackshually” but it’s fairly obvious why they’re recommended by several governments. The WHO has to advise in an environment where some countries have limited PPE supplies and don’t want panic buying.
It’s not just about catching though it’s about spreading. Just last week the latest modelling on coughing and sneezing in confined spaces came out. If you have it but not yet presenting symptoms and are in a supermarket, cough and/or sneeze you don’t just contaminate the isle you’re in (and by a greater distance than 2 meters by the way) you also contaminate the isles either side of the one you’re in. Unless you’re wearing a face masks to contain it. Without a face mask you can quite easily pass it on to four people who are social distancing from you without a mask. The WHO never said what Grendull said they said when you read the articles that he himself posted, couple that with this being a fast moving situation where advice is changing day to day let alone week to week and even those articles that don’t say what he says they say are out of date advice. I suspect when the world wide demand for face masks has caught up the WHO advice will change on wearing them as (as you say) part of a bigger picture. No one has said masks on their own is the answer, it’s quite clearly one piece of a bigger puzzle in dealing with this but by the same token no one has said that wearing masks is a complete waste of time like Grendull claims.Your argument isn't relevant - like I said use your common sense. Wearing masks won't guarantee you not catching the virus, they simply minimise the risk of transmission. If social distancing is not actioned where possible in conjunction with wearing them then you can see why some have claimed their use only goes so far. Especially as you can catch Covid through your eyes.
This is where they need to be careful when opening up public transport to all. As masks won't be enough to stop the spread on packed trains/tubes.
Masks will obviously slow the spread. The counter arguments to what you’ve said are: they serve as a visual reminder of the situation, they help people not touch their mouths out of habit, and they prevent asymptomatic people spreading it unknowingly.
We aren’t looking for perfect. We are looking for multiple ways to slow the spread. Masks are such an obvious solution which is why Asian countries that have experienced pandemics use them extensively.
For some reason the edgelords on the internet have latched onto them for their latest “ackshually” but it’s fairly obvious why they’re recommended by several governments. The WHO has to advise in an environment where some countries have limited PPE supplies and don’t want panic buying.
It’s not just about catching though it’s about spreading. Just last week the latest modelling on coughing and sneezing in confined spaces came out. If you have it but not yet presenting symptoms and are in a supermarket, cough and/or sneeze you don’t just contaminate the isle you’re in (and by a greater distance than 2 meters by the way) you also contaminate the isles either side of the one you’re in. Unless you’re wearing a face masks to contain it. Without a face mask you can quite easily pass it on to four people who are social distancing from you without a mask. The WHO never said what Grendull said they said when you read the articles that he himself posted, couple that with this being a fast moving situation where advice is changing day to day let alone week to week and even those articles that don’t say what he says they say are out of date advice. I suspect when the world wide demand for face masks has caught up the WHO advice will change on wearing them as (as you say) part of a bigger picture. No one has said masks on their own is the answer, it’s quite clearly one piece of a bigger puzzle in dealing with this but by the same token no one has said that wearing masks is a complete waste of time like Grendull claims.
The problem is that there is no longer any choice about opening things up, if it goes on much longer then the economy will be completely destroyed. Its not a matter of "yes, its all good now, we can open up", its "we have no option, what can we do to try and minimise the damage".
Masks aren't being touted as a way to solve the problem, they are to try and keep the number of deaths & infections as low as possible when lockdown is phased out. Because they've made such a disaster of everything so far they have to try anything to avoid a huge second wave, which is coming as soon as this mythical exit plan is rolled out.
It’s not just about catching though it’s about spreading. Just last week the latest modelling on coughing and sneezing in confined spaces came out. If you have it but not yet presenting symptoms and are in a supermarket, cough and/or sneeze you don’t just contaminate the isle you’re in (and by a greater distance than 2 meters by the way) you also contaminate the isles either side of the one you’re in. Unless you’re wearing a face masks to contain it. Without a face mask you can quite easily pass it on to four people who are social distancing from you without a mask. The WHO never said what Grendull said they said when you read the articles that he himself posted, couple that with this being a fast moving situation where advice is changing day to day let alone week to week and even those articles that don’t say what he says they say are out of date advice. I suspect when the world wide demand for face masks has caught up the WHO advice will change on wearing them as (as you say) part of a bigger picture. No one has said masks on their own is the answer, it’s quite clearly one piece of a bigger puzzle in dealing with this but by the same token no one has said that wearing masks is a complete waste of time like Grendull claims.
The WHO say they are pointless don’t they?
That depends on how you define stopping you catching it. If everyone wears masks in public your chances of coming into contact with the pathogen will be greatly reduced. You reduce the chance of coming into contact you reduce the chance of becoming infected. It’s very simple maths.That's their primary use and where they're considered most effective, by containing the virus if you have it. Which is why wearing them should be mandatory when going outside as there are people as you say are asymptomatic or are actually stupid enough to go out in public before the incubation period cut off point despite having it because they think they feel well enough.
To be fair they did at the start - even Chris Whitty more or less claimed they didn't work with regards to stopping the contraction of the virus - but like you said the information is changing weekly if not daily so what was said last month may not be relevant or even at all accurate now.
The government has done it at least two weeks later than they should have though. So actually it’s the other way around it seems that the common sense approach of following scientific advice is catching on with the government.Amazing how following the changing science which the government has done all along seems in vogue today
Seems the government approach of following the changing science is gaining support
That depends on how you define stopping you catching it. If everyone wears masks in public your chances of coming into contact with the pathogen will be greatly reduced. You reduce the chance of coming into contact you reduce the chance of becoming infected. It’s very simple maths.
Your argument isn't relevant - like I said use your common sense. Wearing masks won't guarantee you not catching the virus, they simply minimise the risk of transmission. If social distancing is not actioned where possible in conjunction with wearing them then you can see why some have claimed their use only goes so far. Especially as you can catch Covid through your eyes.
This is where they need to be careful when opening up public transport to all. As masks won't be enough to stop the spread on packed trains/tubes.
Thats why you wear swimming goggles.
Get the zoggs out.
Not disagreeing with you. Social distancing is important. I’m still at work at the moment and have to come into contact with people and at least two or three times a week I’m either backing away from people or telling them to back away and quite often they look at me as if I’m the one being a dick. At times I have to work in an office that I share with someone else, it’s a fairly large office so we’ve been able to move desks 2 meters apart along with other things like only one in the office at any time where possible but the latest modelling shows we’re not doing enough without masks as the virus can linger in the air and on surfaces from a cough or sneeze. The other person doesn’t even need to be in the office at the time for me to catch it from them. I have a feeling that wearing masks outside of the home and social distancing will become good manners and it’s morons who latch onto things like the WHO said they’re a waste of time because they read it on some cranks Twitter feed, misleading headline while ignoring the details in the article, on Facebook or wherever will be considered the rudest people in society.That's what I'm saying though. If everyone wears them but social distancing isn't adhered to then the chances of coming into contact with the virus aren't greatly reduced. They'll certainly help but in many ways they're just delaying the inevitable of a second outbreak - which is what has essentially happened in Japan.
But as you and I have said if everyone wears the masks AND adheres to social distancing where possible then the chances of coming into contact with the virus IS greatly reduced. It's pretty simple as you say, guidelines need to be implemented in order to maximise their effectiveness.
Not disagreeing with you. Social distancing is important. I’m still at work at the moment and have to come into contact with people and at least two or three times a week I’m either backing away from people or telling them to back away and quite often they look at me as if I’m the one being a dick. At times I have to work in an office that I share with someone else, it’s a fairly large office so we’ve been able to move desks 2 meters apart along with other things like only one in the office at any time where possible but the latest modelling shows we’re not doing enough without masks as the virus can linger in the air and on surfaces. I have a feeling that wearing masks outside of the home and social distancing will become good manners and it’s morons who latch onto things like the WHO said they’re a waste of time because they read it on some cranks Twitter feed, misleading headline while ignoring the details in the article, on Facebook or wherever will be considered the rudest people in society.
That's why IMO it should be enforced. Germany have bought in punishments for not wearing face masks (apparently up to €10,000) if you are caught without a mask on in public.
Our government need to find a backbone and implement similar laws / punishments with regards to wearing face masks otherwise people simply won't wear them consistently enough.
They'll flount the rules as they are doing now with quarantine.
USA also hopefuls of a vaccine by January according to Fauci
You joke....but I can almost guarantee at least one person will resort to this
I agree on the economy bit though some experts think it will be a piece of piss and we can lockdown for 6 years if we have to
USA also hopefuls of a vaccine by January according to Fauci
Not sure if the government are as confident in the peak being passed as they claim.
Had 85,000 boby bags flown into BHX this week over 2 flights, expecting another 2 over next few days, and one with gowns.
5 flights with body bags for LTN as well.
I really hope they test it properly too. Would rather it be slightly later, then botched in the race to be first. Usually I'd be entirely confident, but with Trump about, I'm rather less so!Opinion | How Long Will a Vaccine Really Take?
It's a game of opinions Dom. Until there's a breakthrough it's all speculation.
They'd have to make sure there's enough to go found first who h is probably beyond them.
Had 85,000 boby bags flown into BHX this week over 2 flights
Definitely not disagreeing with you there on any account.That's why IMO it should be enforced. Germany have bought in punishments for not wearing face masks (apparently up to €10,000) if you are caught without a mask on in public.
Our government need to find a backbone and implement similar laws / punishments with regards to wearing face masks otherwise people simply won't wear them consistently enough.
They'll flount the rules as they are doing now with quarantine.
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