Coronavirus Thread (Off Topic, Politics) (8 Viewers)

Grendel

Well-Known Member
The generation who like to bring up the 2nd World War but were quite old enough to have been there.

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That statement makes no sense if they were old enough they’d have been there?
 

chiefdave

Well-Known Member
People kicking off about the nightingale hospital barely being used. Surely that’s a good thing? Or did we want it rammed? Can’t win.
On the face of it yes it is a good thing. If its purely that we created extra capacity in case it was needed and shut it down when it wasn't then job done.

However if it has been shut down as other hospitals have stopped referring patients there due to them being turned away as there't no staff thats not so positive.
Nightingale hospital 'turned away more coronavirus patients than it treated'
 

fernandopartridge

Well-Known Member
People kicking off about the nightingale hospital barely being used. Surely that’s a good thing? Or did we want it rammed? Can’t win.

Agree, but worth kicking off about it when contrasted with the thousands being left to die in care homes. It all feels a bit like a massive PR stunt.
 

Astute

Well-Known Member
You said this despite Labour not being in power at any point between when the problem was highlighted and now. The only reason they even did a 'stress test' for pandemic was Labour put in in motion and Tories psuhed it back two years as it was.

As I said I reckon we wouldn't have got all the necessary equipment in even if they had been and decided to spend any funding increases they may have given on what would have seemed more pressing issues at the time.

However I also don't think Labour would have dicked about trying to get the scientific community to endorse a herd immunity strategy losing us valuable time. But at the same time Laboour would have probably had even more problems convincing of shutting borders. With lockdown I can't say either way but probably they'd have been slightly more willing to push ahead with it sooner and probably harder.

As for no pandemics, there were flu pandemics in the 1950's and 60's. 2009 swine flu was classed as a pandemic. Aids is a pandemic that is still occurring today. Just because we were only mildly affected by the flu's and Aids is more of a slow burn killer than the others and isnt airborne (but has killed loads more people than coronavirus has) doesn't mean we haven't had pandemics. We've just been rather fortunate as to the limited effect they've had here, possibly due to better health and safety, standards etc.

But this is all speculation on my part and the main take from it is we can never know what difference a different administration would have had, for better or worse.
Bollocks. It has been spoken about all my life. It wasn't just noticed at the end of the last Labour government.
 

fernandopartridge

Well-Known Member
Here’s my question that I haven’t seen asked or answered:

Clearly we stayed home as intended, stories abound that the government were surprised by how strictly people followed lockdown orders.

Clearly we protected the NHS as we haven’t had Italy style stories of ICUs overrun and places like the Nightingales were empty.

So why didn’t we save lives? Why are we looking at double the “good result” we expected? Why are we looking like having the second highest death rate in the world from this? What went wrong?

Because 'protecting the NHS' and 'saving lives' are probably opposing statements in some respects. Protecting the NHS meant sacrificing people in care homes, who had DNAR notices served en masse (contrary to regulatory guidance)/
 

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
Because 'protecting the NHS' and 'saving lives' are probably opposing statements in some respects. Protecting the NHS meant sacrificing people in care homes, who had DNAR notices served en masse (contrary to regulatory guidance)/

I think there’s something in this, but even on hospital deaths alone we are way ahead of where we should be looking at comparable countries.

Chuck it on the pile for the inevitable enquiry I guess.
 

Astute

Well-Known Member
I think there’s something in this, but even on hospital deaths alone we are way ahead of where we should be looking at comparable countries.

Chuck it on the pile for the inevitable enquiry I guess.
We had deaths from old people's homes added to the number. What about other countries we are being compared with.

Other countries have also had much stronger lockdown restrictions put in place. Ask anyone who lives elsewhere in Europe. But the Tories get an easy time of this. Maybe it is because hardly anyone wanted the measures put in place elsewhere.
 

chiefdave

Well-Known Member
Following the Cambridge Analytica nonsense I’d be very wary of downloading an app from this government.
Why on earth are you worried?

Its not like this will be run by Faculty (previously ASI Data Science who were linked to SCL Group in the Cambridge Analytica scandal).

And its not like Faculty is run by Marc Warner. The same Marc Warner whose brother, Ben, was recruited by Cummings after working on the leave campaign and who controversially attends SAGE meetings.

Sure its all just coincidence.
 

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
Why on earth are you worried?

Its not like this will be run by Faculty (previously ASI Data Science who were linked to SCL Group in the Cambridge Analytica scandal).

And its not like Faculty is run by Marc Warner. The same Marc Warner whose brother, Ben, was recruited by Cummings after working on the leave campaign and who controversially attends SAGE meetings.

Sure its all just coincidence.

Have they given a reason why we can’t use the standard system Google and Apple devised like most countries plan to I believe?
 

wingy

Well-Known Member
Here’s my question that I haven’t seen asked or answered:

Clearly we stayed home as intended, stories abound that the government were surprised by how strictly people followed lockdown orders.

Clearly we protected the NHS as we haven’t had Italy style stories of ICUs overrun and places like the Nightingales were empty.

So why didn’t we save lives? Why are we looking at double the “good result” we expected? Why are we looking like having the second highest death rate in the world from this? What went wrong?
I think we did better than intended in spite of the advice .
People were taking their own precuations/action in those couple of weeks of dither or dally.
It was palpable to me

Stocking up of fridges and pantries , keeping kids off school was a week or two in advance of the official advice.
 

wingy

Well-Known Member
Why on earth are you worried?

Its not like this will be run by Faculty (previously ASI Data Science who were linked to SCL Group in the Cambridge Analytica scandal).

And its not like Faculty is run by Marc Warner. The same Marc Warner whose brother, Ben, was recruited by Cummings after working on the leave campaign and who controversially attends SAGE meetings.

Sure its all just coincidence.
Oh dear .
That's problematic.
 

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
Because 'protecting the NHS' and 'saving lives' are probably opposing statements in some respects. Protecting the NHS meant sacrificing people in care homes, who had DNAR notices served en masse (contrary to regulatory guidance)/
That’s yet to come under any real scrutiny from either parliament or the press. Pretty shocking.
 

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
Why on earth are you worried?

Its not like this will be run by Faculty (previously ASI Data Science who were linked to SCL Group in the Cambridge Analytica scandal).

And its not like Faculty is run by Marc Warner. The same Marc Warner whose brother, Ben, was recruited by Cummings after working on the leave campaign and who controversially attends SAGE meetings.

Sure its all just coincidence.

now you put it like that...
 

David O'Day

Well-Known Member
Yeah. Can't moan about not building redundancy into the NHS to cope and then moan about these nightingale hospitals not getting much use.
Glad they've not really been used and hopefully they won't be.
My issue is the patients they turned away due to lack of staff

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wingy

Well-Known Member
My issue is the patients they turned away due to lack of staff

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It may have featured on the occasional C4 bulletin or panorama .
But solidly batted back .
Afraid the Beeb being seen as a robust monitor on Gov't actions are long gone .
 

David O'Day

Well-Known Member
I guess it could mean those who grew up with it but too young to serve?
I missed out the word not, sorry but I like how grenners tries to talk to me even though I have him on ignore.

Anyway meant to say the people who like to bring up ww2 and the blitz spirit are those not quite old enough to have been there and as brrm said too old for the Falklands

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Grendel

Well-Known Member
I missed out the word not, sorry but I like how grenners tries to talk to me even though I have him on ignore.

Anyway meant to say the people who like to bring up ww2 and the blitz spirit are those not quite old enough to have been there and as brrm said too old for the Falklands

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Were you on Goose Green David?
 

hill83

Well-Known Member
On the face of it yes it is a good thing. If its purely that we created extra capacity in case it was needed and shut it down when it wasn't then job done.

However if it has been shut down as other hospitals have stopped referring patients there due to them being turned away as there't no staff thats not so positive.
Nightingale hospital 'turned away more coronavirus patients than it treated'
Agree, but worth kicking off about it when contrasted with the thousands being left to die in care homes. It all feels a bit like a massive PR stunt.


Both points taken.
 

chiefdave

Well-Known Member
Extrapolating from these figures suggest that between 4.2 and 33.5million Britons have been infected with COVID-19
There's a huge difference in those numbers. One is 6% of the population and the other is 50%. If its 50%, and re-infection isn't possible, you're getting to the point of herd immunity being a viable way forward. Going to need a lot more certainly on the numbers before they can be used to formulate the strategy going forward.
 

David O'Day

Well-Known Member
New cases down for a 3rd day in a row....bet none of you will mention that good news though will ya, will just moan about us doing 85k tests
It's the weekend results.

Any yes we were promised 100k a day

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David O'Day

Well-Known Member
Chris Giles now has his potential excess death model at up to 50k.



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ajsccfc

Well-Known Member
There's a huge difference in those numbers. One is 6% of the population and the other is 50%. If its 50%, and re-infection isn't possible, you're getting to the point of herd immunity being a viable way forward. Going to need a lot more certainly on the numbers before they can be used to formulate the strategy going forward.

I read about a Swiss company's antibody test that tested very well and could be on the way, it can't come soon enough if only for uncertainty's sake.
 

Terry Gibson's perm

Well-Known Member
New cases down for a 3rd day in a row....bet none of you will mention that good news though will ya, will just moan about us doing 85k tests


That’s probably because they test you but then don’t send you the results as they haven’t in my case and the numbers are inflated because people like my wife have had to go back for a second time because there was a problem with the test.
 

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