Do you want to discuss boring politics? (15 Viewers)

[Brighton Sky Blue]

If the opposition wasn't so shite then maybe the UK wouldn't be a 'one party state'

The opposition puts forwards policies people like but don’t vote for because it’s all about personalities and perception

 

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[chiefdave]

Andy Street has seemed a bit Boris-like in his love of big projects while ignoring some of the smaller stuff.

To me he seems very much in the Boris say what people want to hear category. When he was campaigning round here he went to the HS2 site by the uni, where there is a decent sized protest about cutting down ancient tress, protecting the countryside etc and spoke about how much he in favour of HS2 he was.

He then went to the Kings Hill development site and spoke about how concerned he was about local infrastructure not being able to cope with a few extra houses.

Few minutes later he was at the airport talking about shutting it down and building a massive factory on the site

As far as I can tell he's achieved very little in his first term and his manifesto was pretty much the same things he promised last time and didn't deliver.

But he was up against a Labour candidate who didn't seem to even bother campaigning and when I googled him to see who Labour had actually put forward the results weren't inspiring. Like they went out of their way to pick someone who wouldn't win.

 

[PVA]

Point of order, not being proud of your country doesn't mean you hate it.

Exactly this. Two different things.

And the ones who claim to be most proud of their country continually vote to make it worse

 

[fatso]

To me he seems very much in the Boris say what people want to hear category. When he was campaigning round here he went to the HS2 site by the uni, where there is a decent sized protest about cutting down ancient tress, protecting the countryside etc and spoke about how much he in favour of HS2 he was.

He then went to the Kings Hill development site and spoke about how concerned he was about local infrastructure not being able to cope with a few extra houses.

Few minutes later he was at the airport talking about shutting it down and building a massive factory on the site

As far as I can tell he's achieved very little in his first term and his manifesto was pretty much the same things he promised last time and didn't deliver.

But he was up against a Labour candidate who didn't seem to even bother campaigning and when I googled him to see who Labour had actually put forward the results weren't inspiring. Like they went out of their way to pick someone who wouldn't win.

Yep, totally incompetent labour party = massive tory majority.

 

[Evo1883]

It's patently true though.

I'm not necessarily proud of it atm. I'm ashamed we're making ourselves insular, less global in outlook, I'm certainly not proud that traditional British values, for me, of tolerance, acceptance, and co-operation become less and less significant.

I was proud of us under Blair, and hosting the 2012 Olympics, and showing ourselves as positive, and looking outwards. Of course, Iraq didn't make me proud... The actions atm do not make me proud, that does not mean that there aren't things that I'm proud of, but given the question is about pride most of the time, it's a reactive question to events.

I suspect give me a more left leaning government, I would be more proud of this country. Does that mean I hate it? No, it's my home, it's where I come from. It's my... land. I also suspect that give us a more left leaning government, and some of those righties would *not* be as proud of this country as they are now, as values *they* see as important would end up marginalised.

Here's a question .

Has a conservative government ever done anything that you think is good or is it quite literally a situation where no matter what you just despise them .
I struggle with the idea that you shouldn't vote for a particular party no matter what .

I did vote Labour again , but if the tories did absolutely nothing good at all , then surely everybody would want them out .

As it stands they are one of the most successful political parties in the democratic world in terms of elections won .

It doesn't add up .

I'd appreciate your thoughts on it

Not everything can be bad , it's impossible

 

[SkyBlueDom26]

Here's a question .

Has a conservative government ever done anything that you think is good or is it quite literally a situation where no matter what you just despise them .
I struggle with the idea that you shouldn't vote for a particular party no matter what .

I did vote Labour again , but if the tories did absolutely nothing good at all , then surely everybody would want them out .

As it stands they are one of the most successful political parties in the democratic world in terms of elections won .

It doesn't add up .

I'd appreciate your thoughts on it

They just want to look cool and get a few likes on twitter by saying how bad Boris or the tories are.....when thankfully in the real world things couldn't be more different

 

[PVA]

Bullshit the policies are awful thats why people don't vote for them

Absolute bollocks as always.

edit: I see you've deleted it.

 

[Evo1883]

They just want to look cool and get a few likes on twitter by saying how bad Boris or the tories are.....when thankfully in the real world things couldn't be more different

No seriously I'm interested in the answer

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Exactly this. Two different things.

And the ones who claim to be most proud of their country continually vote to make it worse

Well they have voted for the final nail in its coffin after this Britain hater voted to keep it intact

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Here's a question .

Has a conservative government ever done anything that you think is good or is it quite literally a situation where no matter what you just despise them .
I struggle with the idea that you shouldn't vote for a particular party no matter what .

I did vote Labour again , but if the tories did absolutely nothing good at all , then surely everybody would want them out .

As it stands they are one of the most successful political parties in the democratic world in terms of elections won .

It doesn't add up .

I'd appreciate your thoughts on it

Not everything can be bad , it's impossible

From the last decade they get credit from me for

1. Passing gay marriage though with a big nudge from the Lib Dems

2. Raising the minimum wage, though not by enough

3. Furlough, though again this could have reached more people

4. Buying up vaccines before anyone else

The rest I am struggling

 

[SkyBlueDom26]

No seriously I'm interested in the answer

There is no answer

 

[Evo1883]

Well they have voted for the final nail in its coffin after this Britain hater voted to keep it intact

To be fair the Scottish nationalists were pushing for referendums Irrespective.

Labour tories , brexit or not ...they still would be .

They'd find another excuse

 

[Deleted member 5849]

Has a conservative government ever done anything that you think is good

Yes.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

From the last decade they get credit from me for

1. Passing gay marriage though with a big nudge from the Lib Dems

2. Raising the minimum wage, though not by enough

3. Furlough, though again this could have reached more people

4. Buying up vaccines before anyone else

The rest I am struggling

A lot of that are left leaning policies, too - furlough especially.

 

[Evo1883]

Yes.

Elaborate please mate

 

[Deleted member 5849]

Elaborate please mate

Well Ted Heath took us into the EEC, for one.

 

[SkyBlueDom26]

Absolute bollocks as always.

edit: I see you've deleted it.

Alright then, why aren't they in power with a majority?

 

[fatso]

Here's a question .

Has a conservative government ever done anything that you think is good or is it quite literally a situation where no matter what you just despise them .
I struggle with the idea that you shouldn't vote for a particular party no matter what .

I did vote Labour again , but if the tories did absolutely nothing good at all , then surely everybody would want them out .

As it stands they are one of the most successful political parties in the democratic world in terms of elections won .

It doesn't add up .

I'd appreciate your thoughts on it

Not everything can be bad , it's impossible

Didnt Tony Blair win 3 general elections for Labour? That was during a pretty bleak time for the tory party, but I guess they learnt some lessons and bounced back. Every dog has its day though, the question is, can Labour learn from its mistakes and re invent itself as the party of the working people (not just the working class) and mount a challenge in the future?

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

To be fair the Scottish nationalists were pushing for referendums Irrespective.

Labour tories , brexit or not ...they still would be .

They'd find another excuse

Brexit has made a lot more Scots and NI reconsider whereas if it hadn’t happened the Union would be much more stable. Don’t know about you but for me the Union trumps flipping off Europe

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

A lot of that are left leaning policies, too - furlough especially.

When the Tories steal Labour policies nobody ever asks how they’ll be paid for, funny that

 

[Deleted member 5849]

Didnt Tony Blair win 3 general elections for Labour? That was during a pretty bleak time for the tory party, but I guess they learnt some lessons and bounced back. Every dog has its day though, the question is, can Labour learn from its mistakes and re invent itself as the party of the working people (not just the working class) and mount a challenge in the future?

Indeed, and at the time the Tories were under threat from the Liberals of becoming the third party.

We're in odd times atm - Brexit and now (especially) Covid makes it hard to judge policies. All the incumbent governments in the UK had a relatively successful day last Thursday, including the seemingly lost Labour Party.

I'm not sure these elections, in particular, show anything particularly.

 

[Evo1883]

Brexit has made a lot more Scots and NI reconsider whereas if it hadn’t happened the Union would be much more stable. Don’t know about you but for me the Union trumps flipping off Europe

Scots so against leaving the EU, yet happy to leave the UK ..

Now they are more confused than both brexiteers and remainers combined aren't they ?

The economic damage people think brexit is doing would have nothing on that

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Scots so against leaving the EU, yet happy to leave the UK ..

Now they are more confused than both brexiteers and remainers combined aren't they ?

The economic catastrophe people think brexit is doing would have nothing on that

The effect on Northern Ireland is surely impossible to ignore? My point was Brexit has pushed both countries closer to leaving and you can’t really deny that.

 

[Evo1883]

The effect on Northern Ireland is surely impossible to ignore? My point was Brexit has pushed both countries closer to leaving and you can’t really deny that.

No I can't deny that , Boris won't allow the vote anyway

 

[fatso]

Scots so against leaving the EU, yet happy to leave the UK ..

Now they are more confused than both brexiteers and remainers combined aren't they ?

The economic damage people think brexit is doing would have nothing on that

Scottish people voting to stay in the EU when they wouldn't meet any of the entry criteria if they became independent is crazy.

 

[PVA]

Alright then, why aren't they in power with a majority?

I didn't say they should be in power with a majority.

You said their policies are awful and the reason they don't get elected. Which is not true.

Here's Hartlepool saying they are in favour of Labour policies / the opposite of Tory policies.... before going on to vote Tory.

 

[Philosoraptor]

Another spy report on Duggins from my innocent mother. She received a letter on Friday from something just casually mentioned on the doorstep Wednesday which deals with the issue she had.

Absolute sterling work from Duggins here.

 

[Deleted member 4439]

Cup of tea and a Rich Tea biscuit. Or a bag of chips.

And of course

From the last decade they get credit from me for

1. Passing gay marriage though with a big nudge from the Lib Dems

2. Raising the minimum wage, though not by enough

3. Furlough, though again this could have reached more people

4. Buying up vaccines before anyone else

The rest I am struggling

5. Reversed the trend in the budget deficit, considerably slowing down the national debt (prior to covid)

6. Real terms increases in NHS

7. Real terms increase in education funding

8. Year on ear real terms increase in business investment

8. Lowest level of recorded crimes

9. Brexit deal done (whether you agreed with Brexit, or the deal)

10. First country in the world to introduce a target for zero net emissions by 2050, reduction in greenhouse gasses by nearly 30 per cent

11. A fun and optimistic PM.

 

[David O'Day]

Scottish people voting to stay in the EU when they wouldn't meet any of the entry criteria if they became independent is crazy.

Spain would veto them anyway to stop the Catalan and Basque nationalists getting ideas.

 

[chiefdave]

And of course

5. Reversed the trend in the budget deficit, considerably slowing down the national debt (prior to covid)

6. Real terms increases in NHS

7. Real terms increase in education funding

8. Year on ear real terms increase in business investment

8. Lowest level of recorded crimes

9. Brexit deal done (whether you agreed with Brexit, or the deal)

10. First country in the world to introduce a target for zero net emissions by 2050, reduction in greenhouse gasses by nearly 30 per cent

I was struggling to think of anything past vaccine procurement so decided to google and see what came up. The first result was Conservative campaign literature which by a stunning coincidence has listed exactly the same things as you

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

Here's a question .

Has a conservative government ever done anything that you think is good or is it quite literally a situation where no matter what you just despise them .
I struggle with the idea that you shouldn't vote for a particular party no matter what .

I did vote Labour again , but if the tories did absolutely nothing good at all , then surely everybody would want them out .

As it stands they are one of the most successful political parties in the democratic world in terms of elections won .

It doesn't add up .

I'd appreciate your thoughts on it

Not everything can be bad , it's impossible

It's about perception and marketing.

The perception of the Labour party is poor and they don't market themselves well, with complicated slogans and focusing on the policy and arguments. Even when the do the three word slogan it's crap and says nothing. 'A New Leadership' says fuck all.

The perception of the Tories is more positive than it deserves to be, with the help of the media in many cases. They do simplistic slogans that are generic and so can mean different things to different people. They even manage to spin hugely negative things like more foodbanks as a positive and know to focus on tiny positives for the working man when the main beneficiaries will be big business or the rich. ZHC are seen as giving flexibility to workers rather than an erosion of workers rights and a boon to employers. They've managed to increase perception of things like unions as nothing more than troublesome.

It also helps that there is a massive lack of integrity with the Tory ranks, of which Johnson is the biggest example. He changes his opinion more often than his socks depending on which way the wind is blowing. It's literally 'what is it you want to hear and I'll just repeat it back at you'.

We are at the closest point of the break up of the union in history and yet the perception wouldn't be that it was a Tory government that caused it, it'd be labour/left because they're less nationalistic and if they loved their countrry a bit more it wouldn't have happened.

 

[Deleted member 4439]

I was struggling to think of anything past vaccine procurement so decided to google and see what came up. The first result was Conservative campaign literature which by a stunning coincidence has listed exactly the same things as you

Nope, off me head son.

 

[PVA]

"Real terms increases in NHS"

Shame it's increased at a massively lower rate than the average since the inception of the NHS though.

Minor detail of course

 

[Ian1779]

Here's a question .

Has a conservative government ever done anything that you think is good or is it quite literally a situation where no matter what you just despise them .
I struggle with the idea that you shouldn't vote for a particular party no matter what .

I did vote Labour again , but if the tories did absolutely nothing good at all , then surely everybody would want them out .

As it stands they are one of the most successful political parties in the democratic world in terms of elections won .

It doesn't add up .

I'd appreciate your thoughts on it

Not everything can be bad , it's impossible

Yes - giving my parents the chance to buy their council house so they (my Dad) could actually get on the housing ladder. Without that he probably never would have done.

 

[PVA]

"Real terms increase in education funding"

This one is wrong too.