That campaign was from when labour were in govt.
By changing ...I'm not paid enough to work out how thoughSo how is the opposition ever meant to win?
Bite the bullet and be more centrist otherwise it’s oblivion
Labour last won an election 16 years ago
I've had the rolling news coverage on in the background at work the last few days. In amongst the parade of political 'experts' a few have brought up pasokification. Now my knowledge on this is so wide ranging I had to google what it meantMoving to the right under Starmer has resulted in even more losses.
I've had the rolling news coverage on in the background at work the last few days. In amongst the parade of political 'experts' a few have brought up pasokification. Now my knowledge on this is so wide ranging I had to google what it meantThe general idea is that since around 2010 there has been a steady decline in the popularity of centre and centre-left politics in the Western world with a coinciding rise in nationalist and right wing politics.
Certainly seems to tie in with what we've seen here in recent years and of course matches the new Labour mantra that its not Starmers fault its all part of a long term decline that started well before he took over. However there's another part to this, alongside the rise in nationalist and right wing politics there has been a rise in the popularity of left wing politics. The basic argument seemed to be that people are divided on everything and increasingly uninterested in the middle ground. Brexit was often used as an example which was of course pretty much half the country against the other half and no desire to meet in the middle.
This then brings up an uncomfortable issue for Labour. Instead of writing off Corbyn's success in 2017 as an anomaly it becomes a good example of pasokification in action. When you look at Labour vote share from Blair onwards its quite striking:
43.2 - 40.7 - 35.2 - 29 - 30.4 - 40 - 32.1
Even more so when you consider that the 32.1% share Corbyn got that was a disaster is actually their second highest post-Blair share, second only to Corbyn in the previous election.
Now I'm not for a second suggesting they get Corbyn back in and victory will follow but it does suggest rather than rushing to purge the left and embrace the most middle of the road policies they can find they might want to look outside the Labour bubble at what is going on around the world.
It was also pointed out that in this election most of the few areas Labour performed well in had more left leaning candidates and / or candidates who had taken the government to task. Think there's a lot of thinking for Labour to do.
Diane Abbott anyone?Given that it’s nothing to do with policy and all about perception and personality, a charismatic leader and media charm offensive are required
And of course
5. Reversed the trend in the budget deficit, considerably slowing down the national debt (prior to covid)
6. Real terms increases in NHS
7. Real terms increase in education funding
8. Year on ear real terms increase in business investment
8. Lowest level of recorded crimes
9. Brexit deal done (whether you agreed with Brexit, or the deal)
10. First country in the world to introduce a target for zero net emissions by 2050, reduction in greenhouse gasses by nearly 30 per cent
11. A fun and optimistic PM.
They are already in power though , they are in control .
5. We took the longest time to recover from the GFC out of the large Western economies.
6. And yet it entered the COVID pandemic very much under-equipped.
7. Teachers' pay was frozen for a decade amidst the 'fairer funding' plan which would see money taken from some schools to be redistributed to others, instead of an across the board increase in funding. Theresa May also included in her 2017 manifesto the plan to reinstate grammar schools, a socially regressive policy idea only blunted by her losing the majority
8. Which has correlated with a higher % of people reliant on part time, temporary or zero hour work.
9. Evidence please
10. Brexit has not been a success so far
11. An arbitrary target set 30 years in the future is meaningless unless backed up with tangible progress towards it
12. He's a charlatan who has put the Union in its most precarious position since 1707
What I find amusing about the list is you praise higher spending across the board which is dismissed every time Labour put it in the manifesto. Why is it one party is held to so much a higher standard than the other?
Frankly, can't be arsed. though I can confirm that education spending has increased in real terms every year, as I have been part of the team thatfiddledproduced the statistics at dfe.
It may well have done, but it is also true that teachers' pay was frozen and that the plan for years was to cut the grant to some schools and redistribute it to others, instead of raise it for all schools. Hence why I was teaching in places where the classroom ceiling fell in and where support staff were getting laid off to make ends meet.
Very much depends what its being spent on. My ex-wife worked in the NHS when similar claims of increased spending were being made there while on the front line there was a freeze on recruitment and constant cuts. The extra funding was going to companies to bring in 'temporary' nursing staff as the cuts had been so drastic they didn't have enough staff to meet minimum requirements.Frankly, can't be arsed. though I can confirm that education spending has increased in real terms every year, as I have been part of the team thatfiddledproduced the statistics at dfe.
Yup teachers pay was frozen. My pay as a civil servant has been frozen in 7 out of last ten years, and with 1 per cent increases in the other 3. My salary is 20 per cent down on ten years in real terms.
I didn't make that point to go 'woe is me' by the way, just making the point that the money spent went into a black hole and didn't get through to the front line service.
Frankly, can't be arsed. though I can confirm that education spending has increased in real terms every year, as I have been part of the team thatfiddledproduced the statistics at dfe.
Didnt Tony Blair win 3 general elections for Labour? That was during a pretty bleak time for the tory party, but I guess they learnt some lessons and bounced back. Every dog has its day though, the question is, can Labour learn from its mistakes and re invent itself as the party of the working people (not just the working class) and mount a challenge in the future?
There's a lesson there!Blair rebranded distanced himself from the unions and attract support from middle classes
I've had the rolling news coverage on in the background at work the last few days. In amongst the parade of political 'experts' a few have brought up pasokification. Now my knowledge on this is so wide ranging I had to google what it meantThe general idea is that since around 2010 there has been a steady decline in the popularity of centre and centre-left politics in the Western world with a coinciding rise in nationalist and right wing politics.
Certainly seems to tie in with what we've seen here in recent years and of course matches the new Labour mantra that its not Starmers fault its all part of a long term decline that started well before he took over. However there's another part to this, alongside the rise in nationalist and right wing politics there has been a rise in the popularity of left wing politics. The basic argument seemed to be that people are divided on everything and increasingly uninterested in the middle ground. Brexit was often used as an example which was of course pretty much half the country against the other half and no desire to meet in the middle.
This then brings up an uncomfortable issue for Labour. Instead of writing off Corbyn's success in 2017 as an anomaly it becomes a good example of pasokification in action. When you look at Labour vote share from Blair onwards its quite striking:
43.2 - 40.7 - 35.2 - 29 - 30.4 - 40 - 32.1
Even more so when you consider that the 32.1% share Corbyn got that was a disaster is actually their second highest post-Blair share, second only to Corbyn in the previous election.
Now I'm not for a second suggesting they get Corbyn back in and victory will follow but it does suggest rather than rushing to purge the left and embrace the most middle of the road policies they can find they might want to look outside the Labour bubble at what is going on around the world.
It was also pointed out that in this election most of the few areas Labour performed well in had more left leaning candidates and / or candidates who had taken the government to task. Think there's a lot of thinking for Labour to do.
6 and 7 is bullshit. They might be increases in terms of absolute values but do not factor in population growth for example and other costs associated. Both sectors have lost a lot of money over their tenure.And of course
5. Reversed the trend in the budget deficit, considerably slowing down the national debt (prior to covid)
6. Real terms increases in NHS
7. Real terms increase in education funding
8. Year on ear real terms increase in business investment
8. Lowest level of recorded crimes
9. Brexit deal done (whether you agreed with Brexit, or the deal)
10. First country in the world to introduce a target for zero net emissions by 2050, reduction in greenhouse gasses by nearly 30 per cent
11. A fun and optimistic PM.
This I’m afraid is nonsense. Ed Milliband was a car crash and in relative terms to the left in that he had Union support. He lost the Scottish Labour vote and wrecked the party. If David had won they’d be a two party battle on pretty equal terms
Given that it’s nothing to do with policy and all about perception and personality, a charismatic leader and media charm offensive are required
Yup teachers pay was frozen. My pay as a civil servant has been frozen in 7 out of last ten years, and with 1 per cent increases in the other 3. My salary is 20 per cent down on ten years in real terms.
Hard to disagree with that, even though I find it a sad indictment of where we find ourselves as a nation.
Sod the policy, get in some generic slogans that people can interpret however they want and someone in charge you just can't take your eyes off. Having them involved in a scandal or two wouldn't be bad - identifies them with the man on the street.
There's a lesson there!
Would he want it? A party divided that's miles behind or stay in Manchester where he's won by a landslide?As we have seen a lot in this thread, deep down most people like economically left policies. What matters more is charisma and the pitch. I don't think many in Labour have charisma but Andy Burnham should be getting primed for the leadership if he wants it.
As we have seen a lot in this thread, deep down most people like economically left policies. What matters more is charisma and the pitch. I don't think many in Labour have charisma but Andy Burnham should be getting primed for the leadership if he wants it.
Combine that with slogans and policy pitches all centred around getting more money into working people's pockets
Yet you extol the virtues of the people that have given you an effective pay decrease of one fifth during their time in office.
And you wonder why some people are exasperated at trying to work out exactly what other parties are meant to do to stop people like you voting for the Tories.
Would he want it? A party divided that's miles behind or stay in Manchester where he's won by a landslide?
Frankly, can't be arsed. though I can confirm that education spending has increased in real terms every year, as I have been part of the team thatfiddledproduced the statistics at dfe.
I personally think he’d do a good job for Labour maybe gathering speed by 3/4 years time after the next election.Would he want it? A party divided that's miles behind or stay in Manchester where he's won by a landslide?
Circuit breaker lockdown last year? Boris ploughed on and killed some extra people rather than go along with Starmer. True leadership.I personally think he’d do a good job for Labour maybe gathering speed by 3/4 years time after the next election.
Has he reached the peak in Manchester and does he want a new challenge? The balls in his court imo.
I just find Starmer doesn’t say anything positive or put forward any decent ideas.
I haven’t mentioned Boris we are talking about Labour mateCircuit breaker lockdown last year? Boris ploughed on and killed some extra people rather than go along with Starmer. True leadership.
This thread is hardly representative of society is it
I personally think he’d do a good job for Labour maybe gathering speed by 3/4 years time after the next election.
Has he reached the peak in Manchester and does he want a new challenge? The balls in his court imo.
I just find Starmer doesn’t say anything positive or put forward any decent ideas.
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?