D
Deleted member 4439
Guest
Yup teachers pay was frozen. My pay as a civil servant has been frozen in 7 out of last ten years, and with 1 per cent increases in the other 3. My salary is 20 per cent down on ten years in real terms.
It may well have done, but it is also true that teachers' pay was frozen and that the plan for years was to cut the grant to some schools and redistribute it to others, instead of raise it for all schools. Hence why I was teaching in places where the classroom ceiling fell in and where support staff were getting laid off to make ends meet.
Very much depends what its being spent on. My ex-wife worked in the NHS when similar claims of increased spending were being made there while on the front line there was a freeze on recruitment and constant cuts. The extra funding was going to companies to bring in 'temporary' nursing staff as the cuts had been so drastic they didn't have enough staff to meet minimum requirements.Frankly, can't be arsed. though I can confirm that education spending has increased in real terms every year, as I have been part of the team thatfiddledproduced the statistics at dfe.
Yup teachers pay was frozen. My pay as a civil servant has been frozen in 7 out of last ten years, and with 1 per cent increases in the other 3. My salary is 20 per cent down on ten years in real terms.
I didn't make that point to go 'woe is me' by the way, just making the point that the money spent went into a black hole and didn't get through to the front line service.
Frankly, can't be arsed. though I can confirm that education spending has increased in real terms every year, as I have been part of the team thatfiddledproduced the statistics at dfe.
Didnt Tony Blair win 3 general elections for Labour? That was during a pretty bleak time for the tory party, but I guess they learnt some lessons and bounced back. Every dog has its day though, the question is, can Labour learn from its mistakes and re invent itself as the party of the working people (not just the working class) and mount a challenge in the future?
There's a lesson there!Blair rebranded distanced himself from the unions and attract support from middle classes
I've had the rolling news coverage on in the background at work the last few days. In amongst the parade of political 'experts' a few have brought up pasokification. Now my knowledge on this is so wide ranging I had to google what it meantThe general idea is that since around 2010 there has been a steady decline in the popularity of centre and centre-left politics in the Western world with a coinciding rise in nationalist and right wing politics.
Certainly seems to tie in with what we've seen here in recent years and of course matches the new Labour mantra that its not Starmers fault its all part of a long term decline that started well before he took over. However there's another part to this, alongside the rise in nationalist and right wing politics there has been a rise in the popularity of left wing politics. The basic argument seemed to be that people are divided on everything and increasingly uninterested in the middle ground. Brexit was often used as an example which was of course pretty much half the country against the other half and no desire to meet in the middle.
This then brings up an uncomfortable issue for Labour. Instead of writing off Corbyn's success in 2017 as an anomaly it becomes a good example of pasokification in action. When you look at Labour vote share from Blair onwards its quite striking:
43.2 - 40.7 - 35.2 - 29 - 30.4 - 40 - 32.1
Even more so when you consider that the 32.1% share Corbyn got that was a disaster is actually their second highest post-Blair share, second only to Corbyn in the previous election.
Now I'm not for a second suggesting they get Corbyn back in and victory will follow but it does suggest rather than rushing to purge the left and embrace the most middle of the road policies they can find they might want to look outside the Labour bubble at what is going on around the world.
It was also pointed out that in this election most of the few areas Labour performed well in had more left leaning candidates and / or candidates who had taken the government to task. Think there's a lot of thinking for Labour to do.
6 and 7 is bullshit. They might be increases in terms of absolute values but do not factor in population growth for example and other costs associated. Both sectors have lost a lot of money over their tenure.And of course
5. Reversed the trend in the budget deficit, considerably slowing down the national debt (prior to covid)
6. Real terms increases in NHS
7. Real terms increase in education funding
8. Year on ear real terms increase in business investment
8. Lowest level of recorded crimes
9. Brexit deal done (whether you agreed with Brexit, or the deal)
10. First country in the world to introduce a target for zero net emissions by 2050, reduction in greenhouse gasses by nearly 30 per cent
11. A fun and optimistic PM.
This I’m afraid is nonsense. Ed Milliband was a car crash and in relative terms to the left in that he had Union support. He lost the Scottish Labour vote and wrecked the party. If David had won they’d be a two party battle on pretty equal terms
Given that it’s nothing to do with policy and all about perception and personality, a charismatic leader and media charm offensive are required
Yup teachers pay was frozen. My pay as a civil servant has been frozen in 7 out of last ten years, and with 1 per cent increases in the other 3. My salary is 20 per cent down on ten years in real terms.
Hard to disagree with that, even though I find it a sad indictment of where we find ourselves as a nation.
Sod the policy, get in some generic slogans that people can interpret however they want and someone in charge you just can't take your eyes off. Having them involved in a scandal or two wouldn't be bad - identifies them with the man on the street.
There's a lesson there!
Would he want it? A party divided that's miles behind or stay in Manchester where he's won by a landslide?As we have seen a lot in this thread, deep down most people like economically left policies. What matters more is charisma and the pitch. I don't think many in Labour have charisma but Andy Burnham should be getting primed for the leadership if he wants it.
As we have seen a lot in this thread, deep down most people like economically left policies. What matters more is charisma and the pitch. I don't think many in Labour have charisma but Andy Burnham should be getting primed for the leadership if he wants it.
Combine that with slogans and policy pitches all centred around getting more money into working people's pockets
Yet you extol the virtues of the people that have given you an effective pay decrease of one fifth during their time in office.
And you wonder why some people are exasperated at trying to work out exactly what other parties are meant to do to stop people like you voting for the Tories.
Would he want it? A party divided that's miles behind or stay in Manchester where he's won by a landslide?
Frankly, can't be arsed. though I can confirm that education spending has increased in real terms every year, as I have been part of the team thatfiddledproduced the statistics at dfe.
I personally think he’d do a good job for Labour maybe gathering speed by 3/4 years time after the next election.Would he want it? A party divided that's miles behind or stay in Manchester where he's won by a landslide?
Circuit breaker lockdown last year? Boris ploughed on and killed some extra people rather than go along with Starmer. True leadership.I personally think he’d do a good job for Labour maybe gathering speed by 3/4 years time after the next election.
Has he reached the peak in Manchester and does he want a new challenge? The balls in his court imo.
I just find Starmer doesn’t say anything positive or put forward any decent ideas.
I haven’t mentioned Boris we are talking about Labour mateCircuit breaker lockdown last year? Boris ploughed on and killed some extra people rather than go along with Starmer. True leadership.
This thread is hardly representative of society is it
I personally think he’d do a good job for Labour maybe gathering speed by 3/4 years time after the next election.
Has he reached the peak in Manchester and does he want a new challenge? The balls in his court imo.
I just find Starmer doesn’t say anything positive or put forward any decent ideas.
Any polling done on policies shows the public to be centre left, sometimes further.
Which shows policies in isolation are not major priorities. Also as I constantly say it’s the wording of these polling groups that matter
So you are saying that the circuit breaker wasn't a good idea then?I haven’t mentioned Boris we are talking about Labour mate
Which shows policies in isolation are not major priorities. Also as I constantly say it’s the wording of these polling groups that matter
No, the exact problem is the opposite.But... isn't that the supposed exact problem? Labour are too focused on the middle classes and not the working man?
No, the exact problem is the opposite.
They are focusing far far too much on the working man.
The old idea of the working man living in a council house, wearing a flat cap, smoking woodbines and walking his whippet is the very reason they are failing.
Those people have become an "under class"
The working man, now owns his own house and is paying 1.5% mortgage interest rate, which under the tories is historically low, and they ain't going to risk that by letting labour fuck it up with irresponsible spending.
The current working man, is now paying into a pension fund, and might even buy some shares, and has now become politically aware.
The underclass have become left behind, but the point is this, they either dont vote, dont trust labour, or there arnt enough of them to swing elections.
While mortgage rates are low, no one wants to rock the boat, and they are happy to put up with Boris in no10, for all his faults, If mortgage rates rise and people are losing their homes then Boris and the Torys are out.
Its brutal, put it's the truth.
If the working man has is own home, has an active pension fund, can run a car, have a holiday etc he ain't voting for a labour party he sees as being a socialist far left party.
Labour needs to modernise and appeal to this new "middle England " class, because they are the ones who are now voting en mass.
No one gives a fuck who SETS the interest rate, the fact is they are historically low, and currently that's a slam dunk for Boris.The Bank of England set the interest rates.
And UK taxes are the highest for years (all taxes combined not solely income tax).
Couple with that wage suppression which is going to continue for at least anther two years even though there is expected to be big rises in gdp after bunch back from covid. Im not sure they're really helping the new working class you've described.
No one gives a fuck who SETS the interest rate, the fact is they are historically low, and currently that's a slam dunk for Boris.
What happens with wages post brexit remains to be seen, that's for Boris to handle.
If he does it well he will go from strength to strength, if he doesnt he will see his majority decline, but let's be honest, it's going to have to be the mother of all fuck ups to loose an 80+ seat majority over the next 10 years.
Not sure what your going on about mate tbh.So you are saying that the circuit breaker wasn't a good idea then?
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?