Do you want to discuss boring politics? (58 Viewers)

[Sky Blue Pete]

Employment Rights Bill - not fit for purpose

Employment Rights Bill: RPC opinion (red-rated)

Regulatory Policy Committee’s opinion on the impact assessments (IA) for the Employment Rights Bill.

www.gov.uk

Is there any context
I like that we have government groups that hold legislation to such high standards
I wonder what other changes have received similar challenge
I know from other legislative changes that things change regularly from conception to roll out
The government would be daft to ignore the comments and I’d be gobsmacked if they did

 

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[fernandopartridge]

Starmer 25 November 2024

Speaking to ITV, Sir Keir said: "Look, I remind myself that very many people didn't vote Labour at the last election.

"I'm not surprised that many of them want a rerun. That isn't how our system works."

Starmer 5 July 2024

Sir Keir Starmer has promised to build a "government of service" after becoming the UK's first Labour prime minister since 2010.

Speaking outside 10 Downing Street after his party's landslide election win, he pledged to restore trust in politics and “navigate away to calmer waters”.

And appealing directly to voters who did not back his party, he vowed to put “country first" and govern “unburdened by doctrine”.

Not taken him long to show that those who didn’t vote Labour are of no real concern to him, despite his slippery lies back in July.

He's right though, it isn't how the system works.

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

Wife and I have given up on them doing anything to help during their one term in power. Might well not bother voting at all next time, governments at best do not help and at worst make things actively worse.

Don’t be like that
Get involved at other levels
Decisions are made by those in the room

 

[MalcSB]

Do you agree it shouldn’t be given to everyone?

To be clear, I used to get it but frankly didn’t really need it. I will get my £10 Christmas bonus soon, which equally I don’t need.

However, introducing the change at such short notice really made me really angry, along side the failure to acknowledge the potential impact it will have on many people. Just apply for pension credit! If you can get through the tortuous process which will give you a decision after the winter. Too late for some unfortunately.

I have also got quite angry about the general attitude towards “boomers”, who are basically blamed as the reason for all of today’s societal problems. This has got me to the point where clearly the Labour “project” is not for, and does not include, me and I have reached the point of “fuck you”.

Im afraid that is being expressed by me nit picking up every little anti labour points that I can, it’s astonishing in gene4al how poor the defence of this government has been given the pre election expectations.

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

Not sure why they need to offer them money, if governments don't want them there any more then just get them sent home, all criminals should automatically be deported, no matter how low level the crime or risks they face back home.

You know why that’s not a great idea don’t you
One is often they don’t serve their sentence

 

[shmmeee]

Starmer has only gone and done it the absolute mad lad! (This is because of a storm, maybe we can do weather manipulation )

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Don’t be like that
Get involved at other levels
Decisions are made by those in the room

Too cynical for that now Pete

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Starmer has only gone and done it the absolute mad lad! (This is because of a storm, maybe we can do weather manipulation )

View attachment 39789

A colleague of my wife’s has genuinely blamed Starmer for the flooding where they live

 

[shmmeee]

A colleague of my wife’s has genuinely blamed Starmer for the flooding where they live

Thanks OStarmer

 

[fernandopartridge]

Employment Rights Bill - not fit for purpose

Employment Rights Bill: RPC opinion (red-rated)

Regulatory Policy Committee’s opinion on the impact assessments (IA) for the Employment Rights Bill.

www.gov.uk

I don't think it is saying the bill itself is necessarily unfit for purpose, just that the impact assessments provided are not sufficiently evidenced.

These is incompetence from those behind the bill, so whichever department supported whichever minister(s) to develop it.

It's probably not very helpful for these matters to keep talking about sacking civil servants as they're the ones that do all the work.

 

[MalcSB]

Is there any context
I like that we have government groups that hold legislation to such high standards
I wonder what other changes have received similar challenge
I know from other legislative changes that things change regularly from conception to roll out
The government would be daft to ignore the comments and I’d be gobsmacked if they did

We will find out just how incompetent this lot are soon enough,

 

[shmmeee]

We will find out just how incompetent this lot are soon enough,

It’s a bit weird to hope that the government of your country will be incompetent so your backing of the unquestionably incompetent looks better.

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

To be clear, I used to get it but frankly didn’t really need it. I will get my £10 Christmas bonus soon, which equally I don’t need.

However, introducing the change at such short notice really made me really angry, along side the failure to acknowledge the potential impact it will have on many people. Just apply for pension credit! If you can get through the tortuous process which will give you a decision after the winter. Too late for some unfortunately.

I have also got quite angry about the general attitude towards “boomers”, who are basically blamed as the reason for all of today’s societal problems. This has got me to the point where clearly the Labour “project” is not for, and does not include, me and I have reached the point of “fuck you”.

Im afraid that is being expressed by me nit picking up every little anti labour points that I can, it’s astonishing in gene4al how poor the defence of this government has been given the pre election expectations.

For me this decision is possibly the most appalling one for a social justice party who are set up to look after the vulnerable and oppressed be that for the worker against the boss or redistribute extreme wealth and poverty

I can’t believe Keir and Rachel have been defending the level. I’d love to have sight of the impact assessment. An easy answer would be set it at the minimum wage level

I’d always assumed that it wasn’t cost effective to give a benefit to some and not to others hence child benefit always being given but then that changed and it’s not given for those paying higher rate

And in any case it must be possible now. So I don’t think all pensioners require this £300 and it’s right not to give government money to people who don’t need it. Part of why I have always been against privatisation and selling businesses that are monopolies.

I can’t believe that my Labour Party can’t see how poor this decision is it’s like Gordon brown removing the lower rate of tax it was madness

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

Too cynical for that now Pete

I understand but when people like you duck out it’s left to Farage’s boys

 

[MalcSB]

For me this decision is possibly the most appalling one for a social justice party who are set up to look after the vulnerable and oppressed be that for the worker against the boss or redistribute extreme wealth and poverty

I can’t believe Keir and Rachel have been defending the level. I’d love to have sight of the impact assessment. An easy answer would be set it at the minimum wage level

I’d always assumed that it wasn’t cost effective to give a benefit to some and not to others hence child benefit always being given but then that changed and it’s not given for those paying higher rate

And in any case it must be possible now. So I don’t think all pensioners require this £300 and it’s right not to give government money to people who don’t need it. Part of why I have always been against privatisation and selling businesses that are monopolies.

I can’t believe that my Labour Party can’t see how poor this decision is it’s like Gordon brown removing the lower rate of tax it was madness

They didn’t do an impact assessment in advance of the change.

The child benefit thing is more complicated than that, isn’t it. I thought they give it to everyone, and then take it back in tax if one of the parents earns more than ?£60k.

I paid hundreds of thousands of pounds in tax and NI during my working life. The WFA was something that made me feel “considered” by society. No longer, so service to self it will be.

Looking forward to my new gas boiler being installed by Christmas That should see me out to my

 

[Nick]

A colleague of my wife’s has genuinely blamed Starmer for the flooding where they live

Although not his fault personally, if local councils looked after drainage then I bet flooding wouldn't be as bad.

Walked to the shop yesterday and pretty much ever drain at the side of the road was blocked.

 

[shmmeee]

For me this decision is possibly the most appalling one for a social justice party who are set up to look after the vulnerable and oppressed be that for the worker against the boss or redistribute extreme wealth and poverty

I can’t believe Keir and Rachel have been defending the level. I’d love to have sight of the impact assessment. An easy answer would be set it at the minimum wage level

I’d always assumed that it wasn’t cost effective to give a benefit to some and not to others hence child benefit always being given but then that changed and it’s not given for those paying higher rate

And in any case it must be possible now. So I don’t think all pensioners require this £300 and it’s right not to give government money to people who don’t need it. Part of why I have always been against privatisation and selling businesses that are monopolies.

I can’t believe that my Labour Party can’t see how poor this decision is it’s like Gordon brown removing the lower rate of tax it was madness

Ultimately if people are pushed into poverty by losing the WFP then their support wasn’t enough in the first place. I think like the farms there’s a good argument to be had over the right thresholds, but in both cases most people agree the general principle is sound.

 

[MalcSB]

Ultimately if people are pushed into poverty by losing the WFP then their support wasn’t enough in the first place. I think like the farms there’s a good argument to be had over the right thresholds, but in both cases most people agree the general principle is sound.

Organise a petition to show that most people support it. In your bubble, may be. Not in mine.

At least when I say most people don’t support the Labour Party, there is some evidence to support me,

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Although not his fault personally, if local councils looked after drainage then I bet flooding wouldn't be as bad.

Walked to the shop yesterday and pretty much ever drain at the side of the road was blocked.

Local councils still aren’t Starmer!

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

I understand but when people like you duck out it’s left to Farage’s boys

I have been on the ‘winning’ side in a grand total of two of all the votes I’ve cast since 2010. Voting doesn’t make a difference when a snake oil salesman can get in by telling whatever people want to hear.

 

[shmmeee]

Organise a petition to show that most people support it. In your bubble, may be. Not in mine.

At least when I say most people don’t support the Labour Party, there is some evidence to support me,

I don’t think many support giving free money to millionaires or facilitating their tax avoidance.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Organise a petition to show that most people support it. In your bubble, may be. Not in mine.

At least when I say most people don’t support the Labour Party, there is some evidence to support me,

To be fair it’s very rare that any party gets over half the vote in this country, so you can again say this of most governments.

 

[shmmeee]

To be fair it’s very rare that any party gets over half the vote in this country, so you can again say this of most governments.

Trump didn’t even get half the vote in basically a two way contest.

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

I don’t think many support giving free money to millionaires or facilitating their tax avoidance.

They do cause we only need tax to pay for migrant hotels

 

[MalcSB]

I don’t think many support giving free money to millionaires or facilitating their tax avoidance.

That tired old argument again.

Im not a millionaire and I don’t avoid tax. If only I could.

Its not free money, I am paying for it through my still significant sums in income tax.

There are lots of things I would rather my tax not being spent on. Putting up illegal immigrants in hotels being one of them.

Sending 470 delegates to a COP being another. Paying civil servants London Weighting Allowance for working at home or on the beach yet another.

 

[MalcSB]

He's right though, it isn't how the system works.

Only because of a piece of Tory legislation which limits a governments freedoms to call an election

 

[MalcSB]

Starmer has only gone and done it the absolute mad lad! (This is because of a storm, maybe we can do weather manipulation )

View attachment 39789

Every cloud has a silver lining, thanks goodness for global warming.

 

[SBT]

I paid hundreds of thousands of pounds in tax and NI during my working life. The WFA was something that made me feel “considered” by society. No longer, so service to self it will be.

Forgive me for thinking your commitment to communitarian ideals was never that strong if the loss of a £300 payment was enough for you to abandon them entirely.

 

[PVA]

Oh and why are we surprised there’s 2.5m people that want another General Election?

10 million people voted Tory and Reform so all of those people clearly never wanted and don’t want a Labour government.

 

[fernandopartridge]

That tired old argument again.

Im not a millionaire and I don’t avoid tax. If only I could.

Its not free money, I am paying for it through my still significant sums in income tax.

There are lots of things I would rather my tax not being spent on. Putting up illegal immigrants in hotels being one of them.

Sending 470 delegates to a COP being another. Paying civil servants London Weighting Allowance for working at home or on the beach yet another.

Civil servants have to attend the office 3 days per week, so they should be paid London weighting allowance. It's a strange thing but my commuting costs buying individual tickets per day (not in London) to go to the office 3 x per week are as expensive as the repayment on an annual season ticket.

People housed in hotels sequestered by the Home Office are asylum seekers. They are not 'illegal immigrants' until the point that they are denied asylum.

As a country we either need to face up to the fact that we, like all other relatively rich western nations, are going to be somewhere that people will try to migrate to/ seek asylum in. As part of that, we need to face up to the fact that we need to create accommodation to house people coming here so the Home Office isn't using "4 star hotels" to do it.

 

[shmmeee]

That tired old argument again.

Im not a millionaire and I don’t avoid tax. If only I could.

Its not free money, I am paying for it through my still significant sums in income tax.

There are lots of things I would rather my tax not being spent on. Putting up illegal immigrants in hotels being one of them.

Sending 470 delegates to a COP being another. Paying civil servants London Weighting Allowance for working at home or on the beach yet another.

But that’s a threshold argument. It’s like the old joke:
would you sleep with me for £1m?
“Yes”
would you for £10?
“What do you think I am??”
We know what you are, we’re just negotiating on price.

We agree Elton John shouldn’t get it and people genuinely in need should. I’m open to the idea the threshold for both pension credit and farming IHT is set too low, but I think there should be a threshold for wealth transfers to already very wealthy groups on average.

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

Civil servants have to attend the office 3 days per week, so they should be paid London weighting allowance. It's a strange thing but my commuting costs buying individual tickets per day (not in London) to go to the office 3 x per week are as expensive as the repayment on an annual season ticket.

People housed in hotels sequestered by the Home Office are asylum seekers. They are not 'illegal immigrants' until the point that they are denied asylum.

As a country we either need to face up to the fact that we, like all other relatively rich western nations, are going to be somewhere that people will try to migrate to/ seek asylum in. As part of that, we need to face up to the fact that we need to create accommodation to house people coming here so the Home Office isn't using "4 star hotels" to do it.

Or not reform say we just stop and send them back
Can’t be hard surely lol

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

But that’s a threshold argument. It’s like the old joke:
would you sleep with me for £1m?
“Yes”
would you for £10?
“What do you think I am??”
We know what you are, we’re just negotiating on price.

We agree Elton John shouldn’t get it and people genuinely in need should. I’m open to the idea the threshold for both pension credit and farming IHT is set too low, but I think there should be a threshold for wealth transfers to already very wealthy groups on average.

Me too

 

[shmmeee]

In fact the more I think about it the more I think some of the money raised should have gone towards increasing pension credit or lowering the threshold, but no idea if the sums add up.

 

[MalcSB]

Forgive me for thinking your commitment to communitarian ideals was never that strong if the loss of a £300 payment was enough for you to abandon them entirely.

As I have said, I personally didn’t need it. It’s the way it was done and a genuine shock that a Labour government would do it that really angered me. Also the enormous anti-boomer sentiment- just turned me right off. There are people on here who have really shifted me politically to the right which I’m sure would t have been their intention.

I contributed massively to the benefit of communities through my job. It’s clear that my age group is abominated by many these days, and I’m sorry, but fuck em. I would be better off not paying taxes, not getting the state pension and paying for my health and eventual social care myself. Of course, I will be paying for the latter anyway, whilst illegal I migrants get put up in hotels etc.

Edit I am self aware enough to recognise that I have basically “lost my shit” over this, but hey ho. I just don’t care,